30-04-2003 08:17									#61
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Let's test!

	30-04-2003 08:20									#62
	Got spare money?

We already have... where is Alexman?

	30-04-2003 08:58									#63
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So what do we do if they fortify?

Enough, I say. The tide of war has turned, and Gathering Storm must go on the offense, even if that offense starts in our own lands.

Medieval Infantry, and a cleansing war.

Then north, and we take it home to the Vox bastards.

	30-04-2003 09:38									#64
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Ping them down with cats if they fortify. 3-4 turns and we'd be getting free kills instead of fighting at less than 50% odds. We lose ground on all the other teams if we throw away units unnecessarily against Vox.

So even if the war with Vox is a foregone conclusion (give it 4-5 more turns) we still want to be careful and efficient.

	30-04-2003 10:18									#65
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

That's you and me, Aeson.

You are the most efficient player I know of... a massively huge compliment. Seriously.

I am a little more gut, a little more 'bet the ranch.' It's definitely gotten me in trouble, even in SP. But...

You are right, of course, but one of the things I like about history is the sometime arisal of the dramatic occasion, or the historic deed.

Genghis Khan, Caesar, Scipio Africanus, Hannibal, Von Manstein, Rommel, Napoleon, Lee, Wellington and Sharpe, Gordon ( ), Patton (!) and so many others....

As we, GS, play this out, I'd love to see at least one instance, one story, one feat, worthy of a Homer or a Herodotus or a Trip.

Hey, many of us are the Strat forum guys... shouldn't we come up with something insanely great?

	30-04-2003 10:41									#66
	Inflate your Upload Space

Am I a lunatic?

100 reg med inf vs 100 reg pike in:

size 6 town on plains with wall,
med inf win 45 with 8 promotions,
pike win 55 with 20 promotions (2 to elite);

size 7 city on plains with wall,
med inf win 31 times with 8 promotions
pike win 69 times with 27 promotions (3 to elite);

size 6 town on hill with wall,
med inf win 25 times with 8 promotions,
pike win 75 times with 20 promotions (6 to elite);

size 7 town on hill with wall,
med inf win 22 times with 5 promotions,
pike win 78 times with 28 promotions (3 to elite).

It does indeed seem that walls are having an effect at size 7. The last test (vs sz 7 on hill w wall started a bit streaky, 5 - 5 after 10).

Answer to first question: yes, I am.

	30-04-2003 11:54									#67
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quote: As we, GS, play this out, I'd love to see at least one instance, one story, one feat, worthy of a Homer or a Herodotus or a Trip.

I really have no problem with trying for such things if that's the way the team wants to go. I believe in analyzing things to death until the consequences of each action are as clear as possible... it doesn't mean I don't enjoy a good gamble from time to time.

(That I'm still alive is a bit unbelievable considering some of the things I've done )

In real life, things like initiative and courage make huge differences in encounters of any nature. As far as game mechanics are concerned, CivIII doesn't take those things into account. It's just a cold, lifeless algorithm. Mainly I make my posts about the 'algorithm' and what it would dictate we do. So I'll post what I think our chances are about a course of action, because that's the 'known' (even though it's just probabilities) and it's what I enjoy looking for.

I agree those odds shouldn't dictate what we as a team do. From an efficiency standpoint doing the most efficient thing isn't always going to be called for against a human opponent, as eventually they can figure out what you'll do in any situation (the problem with just about any AI).

Just remember, if you want to play Napoleon, that you never know which 'reach' is going to be your Moscow.

---------

Great post on the Voxian thread btw!

	30-04-2003 11:59									#68
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I'd say between your testing and alexman's post (which I'm sure he's basing on a ton of testing) we could say that yes, city walls' defense bonus stays in effect regardless of city size.

	30-04-2003 12:39									#69
	Inflate your Upload Space

I hope they leave it that way. Many old cities in relatively recent history have been harder to take because of the anceint or medieval fortifications near their centres.

The Citadel at Nijmegen (?). The old city of Jerusalem. It would add some flavour to scenarios if certain cities were tougher nuts to crack than just the latest urban sprawl.

	30-04-2003 12:52									#70
	Remove this text

Save's here. I knew staying up til 3am would pay off. Anyone awake to play/send it to us?

	30-04-2003 12:54									#71
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

How come we always get the save in the middle of the night? (continental US)

	30-04-2003 12:56									#72
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Aeson How come we always get the save in the middle of the night? (continental US)

Is it because Vondrack is in Czech Republic? I think he is their player.

	30-04-2003 16:34									#73
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I have to vote with Aeson here. If they are silly enough to stay where they are, or move somewhere without attacking, then if possible hit them with all 6 catapults, and keep doing it until they are down to 2 hp each (more or less) - then attack.

	30-04-2003 18:46									#74
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Ping 'em with Cats and then hit 'em.

Regarding doing something ballsy... Theseus, that was what drove me to proposing operation Inchon.

Hold 'em by the nose & kick 'em in the ass!

-Arrian

	30-04-2003 20:16									#75
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Aeson We already have... where is Alexman?

I'm here, although too late to save notyoueither from some testing.

Walls do indeed provide their defensive bonus to cities greater than size 6. This (bug) is new to PTW.

	30-04-2003 20:21									#76
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I think this game is 1.14. Does the bug still exist in 1.21, or have they caught it yet?

	30-04-2003 20:23									#77
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Yes, it definitely exists in 1.21f.

	30-04-2003 20:29									#78
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Quote from Roleplay member (plague rat) on the PtWDG open forum:

quote: Exactly how many troops does GS have? Hmm... Look forward to opening the save... just to see there are no units left to move around.

Wishful thinking? Oh, I think I'll give an accurate answer to the first question while I'm at it

	30-04-2003 20:35									#79
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

It's okay, they must be checking the military advisor too. They know that we have a large army, and they're not getting any positive reports from Vox, at least not publicly.

	30-04-2003 20:58									#80
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I have the turn open, and as had been indicated, it looks like their only move in our territory was bringing their last two immortals together with the others in the east (if my count for the stack at Arashi 8-8 is correct). We still want to rush a pike in Sandstorm (so we can hold Hurricane 8 and have a high probability of holding Sandstorm 6) and short-rush one in Bolderberg (to get us closer to having spare pikes for an iron raid)?

	30-04-2003 21:00									#81
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Sounds good to me, Nathan. After that, though, can we switch to building more attack troops?

After you do the rushing, I think it's safe to say that there is no objection to going ahead and firing all our cats at their main stack.

Then we can discuss the Eastern Front situation, and galley moves.

-Arrian (off to lunch, be back in an hour).

	30-04-2003 21:05									#82
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Nathan's plan sounds good, and as Arrian says, unless there is an obvious need elsewhere (which it sounds as though there isn't), there is nothing for the catapults to do apart from bombard the stack with bananas.

	30-04-2003 21:11									#83
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I'm all for that!

-=Vel=-

	30-04-2003 21:14									#84
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Same here

	30-04-2003 21:16									#85
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Damn, I have to go to class now (my last class as a student, thank jeebus), wish I could be around for this turn, though I'm sure you guys will still be working on it when I get back

Since they are apparently standing pat, could we afford to send a contingent of 3-4 war chariots heading North and West to attack D'ville? Or is that still too premature.

	30-04-2003 21:20									#86
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quote: Originally posted by alva Same here

Yes, great plan. You may fire when ready.

Vox is really letting me down, though they are buying themselves more time.

	30-04-2003 21:25									#87
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I went through the production phase and attacked with the cats. Five out of six hit!



Vox no longer has an immortal with more than three hit points in their main stack, and they'd have to travel a bit to get back home. Now might be an excellent time to open peace talks if we decide that we're willing to risk leaving Vox alive after their last back-stab.

Nathan

	30-04-2003 21:27									#88
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We could use a 3rd player, or at least someone who can open the save and read out the results while the others are gone.
I would suggest myself, but I seem to have lost my PTW CD...
Edit: x-posted with Nathan.

	30-04-2003 21:31									#89
	Put an end to popups!

Excellent news re catapults. The big question (for me) is: will we get the screenshot before I have to go in about 10 minutes (and I'll miss all the fun as always, come in tomorrow morning, and find we've done somthing impressive).

	30-04-2003 21:32									#90
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay I went through the production phase and attacked with the cats. Five out of six hit!

holy cow. We are some lucky mofos so far in this game.