01-05-2003 01:11									#151
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I agree... Settlers are right up there with Cats as the most potent offensive units in the game against 1 movement units. They're just indirect killers.

	01-05-2003 01:23									#152
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Aeson, I think you have Arashi and Tempest backward. It's Arashi that Vox could sandwich, and that would need to short rush to get a unit next turn.

And if we want to take the road to Dissidentville intact, cats and pikes aren't going to do the job. We need some serious medieval infantry punch. And if Vox does send an exceptionally heavy force down the road against Arashi, medieval infantry can kill the units on grasslands if they move there or, if they go through the mountains, go after what's left of the forces between Arashi and Tempest in order to free up pikes from Tempest to help defend Arashi. (And in the latter case, we'd even get a turn to heal while the Voxians move onto Arashi 9.) Note that by the time we'd be attacking, our cats will have had two more turns to pound Voxians, so we'd be dealling with mostly if not entirely immortals with two hit points or less - favorable odds even for regular medieval infantry. In other words, I think we're to a point where we're better off short rushing a medieval infantry than short rushing a pike in Arashi.

	01-05-2003 01:23									#153
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btw, we are strong vs everyone except Vox. Average vs them. We are outpacing RP.

	01-05-2003 01:24									#154
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But is there any reason why we should produce units first, workers/settlers later (when we're actually going to need them - even if we take a shot at the road next turn, it will be another 2 turns before our troops will come down from the mountains into Dissidentville (or the ruins thereof). That's when we will need a settler. We have enough workers to do the job that needs doing right now.

Units first. Workers/Settlers later. That's my vote.

-Arrian

	01-05-2003 01:24									#155
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither btw, we are strong vs everyone except Vox. Average vs them. We are outpacing RP.

We sure as hell better be, with our GA.

-Arrian

	01-05-2003 01:26									#156
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What do we produce in:
EotS
Hurricane
Tempest
Bolderberg
Arashi
Cyclone
Tornado
Sufa
Typhoon
?

	01-05-2003 01:26									#157
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quote: In other words, I think we're to a point where we're better off short rushing a medieval infantry than short rushing a pike in Arashi.

I absolutely agree, nathan. We're ok for defense right now, fellas. We're still pretty weak on offense, though.

-Arrian

	01-05-2003 01:28									#158
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quote: What do we produce in:

In my opinion:

EotS - Horseman
Hurricane - Horseman (if we're up to 30 shields/turn, if not, med inf)
Tempest - WC
Bolderberg - WC
Arashi - Med Inf (short rush)
Cyclone - WC

As for the rest, I need to look at a screenie. Probably one more galley, and then more WC's.

-Arrian

	01-05-2003 01:30									#159
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Not to mention using gold to rush and short rush units right and left.

Arrian, if we take the road in two turns, we can be at Grog's Mountain 9 long before we could get a settler from Cyclone built and moved all the way up there. I'm starting to think we ought to start Cyclone on a settler right now. Even Inchon could probably be mounted faster than we could get a settler ready from Cyclone, if we can build enough units or kill enough Voxians to free up the necessary units.

	01-05-2003 01:31									#160
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I would like to see a minuimum of 2 pike per turn being completed for a bit yet. We are on the razor's edge. A bad round to Vox with the RNG could have us scrambling again. Best to have a small reserve of pike and remove the potential for Vox luck to decide the fate of an important city. I agree about a bit more offence now though.

	01-05-2003 01:31									#161
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quote: Aeson, I think you have Arashi and Tempest backward. It's Arashi that Vox could sandwich, and that would need to short rush to get a unit next turn.

I'm terrible with names. As long as you know what I'm talking about... I don't have to.

Med Inf help if Vox's stack comes onto the flats I agree. The only risk to us though is if the same stack comes on the Mountains 1 turn later. WC's, and what Med Inf we have now, can sufficiently damage the stack on the flats, but only Pikes have better than even odds against the stack on the Mountains.

The other way to go would be to switch Arashi to Cats, and keep Cyclone on Cats... maybe switch Tempest to 20 shields per turn for as long as it can hold it, and build 1 turn Cats there too.

	01-05-2003 01:31									#162
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian In my opinion: EotS - Horseman Hurricane - Horseman (if we're up to 30 shields/turn, if not, med inf) Tempest - WC Bolderberg - WC Arashi - Med Inf (short rush) Cyclone - WC As for the rest, I need to look at a screenie. Probably one more galley, and then more WC's. -Arrian

That's what I was going to suggest, at least the EotS and Hurricane parts. one turn horseman, pretty sweet. Fast to counter vox where needed and cheaper ->knight upgrades.

	01-05-2003 01:34									#163
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Cats are nice, but let's not overdo it. We already have a pretty large number of cats (when considering the numbers of units that we & Vox are using). What we need are more combat units. Specifically, attack units.

-Arrian

	01-05-2003 01:35									#164
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I guess we could use the latest medieval infantry from Tornado to relieve swordsmen (starting next turn) while they go in for upgrade to medieval infantry. That would let Hurricane shift its focus to horsemen with reasonable safety.

	01-05-2003 01:38									#165
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I would like to see a minuimum of 2 pike per turn being completed for a bit yet. We are on the razor's edge. A bad round to Vox with the RNG could have us scrambling again. Best to have a small reserve of pike and remove the potential for Vox luck to decide the fate of an important city. I agree about a bit more offence now though.

I agree with this. Safety, we must secure the homeland either through offense or defense.


on another topic
I think there is a good chance that our cats are going to force Vox to attack a turn earlier than expected, either next turn or the next. If I were vox and I opened up the save and saw that all my vets in the stack were missing a hp, I might attack prematurely, thinking that they would only lose more by just sitting there.

	01-05-2003 01:40									#166
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How about this?

EotS pike, 1
Hurricane horse, 1
Tempest pike, 1
Bolderberg pike, 3
Arashi pike or med inf rushed/short rushed depending on situation
Cyclone cat or WC 2 or 3
Tornado med inf 3
Sufa galley 6 or WC 4
Typhoon galley 3

We are a turn or 2 from being able to rush 3 cats or WCs in the Western hamlets.

	01-05-2003 01:40									#167
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Aeson, medieval infantry would have lousy odds attacking new attackers from the north if the new attackers stick to the mountains, but they would do great against what's likely to be left of the forces between Arashi and Tempest. Take out some of those units and we free up some of Tempest's pikes to come north to Arashi to deal with the new attackers. So rushing a medieval infantry instead of a pike in Arashi won't particularly hurt us defensively and would give us a lot more flexibility to consider offensive operations if Vox gives us the right opening.

	01-05-2003 01:47									#168
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I like Cats and Pikes. They don't kill fast, but we'll lose less shields to Vox using them. They also are upgradeable all the way.

We've been lucky with the Cats so far. I wouldn't plan on getting too many shots at 2HP units in 2 turns between Tempest and Arashi. I could happen next turn, or we may just see our luck evening out and we start missing a lot. I'd rather see us play it patient and take 1HP kills. Pikes give us the time, Cats give us the means (if they are a bit streaky, nothing is lost when we 'lose').

	01-05-2003 01:51									#169
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After this turn we could probably get by with pike only in Tempest and Bolderberg. That averages 1 per turn if we use a bit of gold in a pinch.

That would have
EotS horse, 1
Hurricane horse, 1
Tempest pike, 2
Bolderberg pike, 3
Arashi med inf, 4 less rushing
Cyclone cat or WC 2 or 3
Tornado med inf 3
Sufa galley 6 or WC 4
Typhoon galley 3
after this turn. With 4 more WC/cats coming from rushing the hamlets every 4 or 5 turns

	01-05-2003 01:52									#170
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How about a compromise between NYE's proposal and mine?

I proposed no pikes, he proposed 3, right?

So why not:

Hurricane: Pike
EotS: Horse
Tempest: Med Inf (short rush)
Arashi: Pike
Cyclone: WC
Tornado: WC
Sufa: WC
Typhoon: galley

And leave Monsoon & SS on Cats?

-Arrian

Edit: crosspost with NYE. Similar thoughts...

	01-05-2003 01:54									#171
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If we do a pike and a horseman in our big cities, we're probably better off doing the horse in EotS and the pike in Hurricane. A pike in Hurricane could help defend Sandstorm if Vox goes for it next turn, and could be in Arashi in two turns just as easily as one from EotS could.

	01-05-2003 01:55									#172
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Could work if we rush the pike in Arashi.

	01-05-2003 01:56									#173
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Yeah, that's what I was thinking, Nathan. The place we run the biggest risk of getting hurt by the RNG is around SS.

-Arrian

	01-05-2003 01:57									#174
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Arrian, the med. inf. short rush would be in Arashi, not in Tempest. Tempest is set up to finish a pike next turn without the need for a rush.

	01-05-2003 02:00									#175
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How much cash do we have after selling off all the Barracks?

	01-05-2003 02:03									#176
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Nathan, ok. I didn't realize that (I'm at "work," and therefore can't access the save right now).

-Arrian

	01-05-2003 02:05									#177
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Aeson, on average, Vox's immortals would all be down to two hit points by the time we would do a preemptive strike to free up pikes from Tempest. Normally, I'd certainly rather whittle them all the way down to one hit point before attacking, but if Vox can get a good enough pincer movement going, attacking them early in order to free up pikes might make sense. We'll have to see how things go. By the way, we also need to consider at what point it might make sense to focus our cats on Arashi 9 instead of on the big stack. We probably want to focus our whittling on Vox's most potent units.

	01-05-2003 02:07									#178
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Westen galley. Suggest 8 8 9 6.

Typhoon galley. Suggest 4 4 8 8. Go check for the island next turn if nothing shows interesting in the West.

Sufa galley. Well, landing on the road near the iron colony seems to be out, so send west to assist exploring/repelling Vox/GoW and getting ready for Inchon.

Eastern gallies. Suggest they finish where they started. Slows down Vox in moving south and keeps them guessing as to whether there are troops on them (thus pinning down a couple more immortals and spears).

	01-05-2003 02:08									#179
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If we have more Pikes we don't need to attack 2HP units though. We can wait.

	01-05-2003 02:09									#180
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All barracks sold, leaving us at 36 gold, +139 gpt.