01-05-2003 02:10									#181
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We are building a road on the mine at H8?

	01-05-2003 02:11									#182
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither We are building a road on the mine at H8?

That's the plan. I haven't issued the order yet, though.

	01-05-2003 02:12									#183
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Do we want to use the build-to trick so that they finish during our turn next turn and the units there have full mobility? Would it work?

	01-05-2003 02:15									#184
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I'd rather not. That seems too far into the exploit end of things even if it works. It basically gives our workers a free turn.

So far the furthest in that direction that we've gone is short rushing. It's something that probably wasn't intended to be doable, but at least doesn't give us anything 'free'... we still build and pay for the shields.

	01-05-2003 02:15									#185
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1) Would it work?
2) Would it be within the rules of the demogame?

-Arrian

Edit: crosspost with Aeson. I agree with him on this (but not on the build orders )

	01-05-2003 02:17									#186
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson If we have more Pikes we don't need to attack 2HP units though. We can wait.

If we knew Vox would come through the mountains, I would agree. But I'd like to see us have offensive options, not just defensive ones. If Vox gives us an opening to seize their road and all of a sudden have troops right outside Dissidentville, I want us to be in a position to exploit that opening. I want us to be prepared for worst-case scenarios, but I don't want us to focus 100% of our planning around what would be best in worst-case scenarios.

	01-05-2003 02:18									#187
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Um. Whats the build to exploit?

	01-05-2003 02:19									#188
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OK. We will not use it. Cool by me.

	01-05-2003 02:21									#189
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A worker using the 'build to' command will finish their road project and still have full movement points left, instead of finishing it by using up it's movement points.

I think using it here would have 1 of our Workers 'come out of it' next turn, the other two finishing the 2 Worker turns left on the road. If that is the case, it's ok IMO, we are still putting in 5 Worker turns, so nothing free.

I'm not sure if it works that way or not though. If all 3 of our Workers come out of it next turn, it's like getting a 5 Worker turn Mountain road for the price of 3.

	01-05-2003 02:22									#190
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel Um. Whats the build to exploit?

Using the build-road-to command, the workers finish sort of during your turn on the last turn. If you cycle through all your units using wait, the workers complete the road when you get to them in the order. Then your units can use the road.

	01-05-2003 02:23									#191
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I'll run a test to see how it would work.

	01-05-2003 02:26									#192
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Using the build-road-to command, the workers finish sort of during your turn on the last turn. If you cycle through all your units using wait, the workers complete the road when you get to them in the order. Then your units can use the road.

Thats an exploit! Whoops! How embarrassing. I've done that in every game I've played, probably.

	01-05-2003 02:28									#193
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Just tested, and it doesn't help us much if any. Next turn they'd be roading, and at the end of the turn one of the Workers would come off the Mountain with no movement points left. The next turn, they all can move, just one of them will be on the tile where we chose to road to.

	01-05-2003 02:31									#194
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NM... the worker will have 2/3rds movement left. So it's not giving us free worker turns, but does give us a 2 tile movement advantage.

	01-05-2003 02:33									#195
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The big difference is if it lets the road finish during the turn instead of at the end of the turn. That would make our offensive units on Hurricane 8 available to go after Voxians that try to strike Sandstorm over flatlands a turn earlier. By the way, if Vox is using the "road to" exploit, they could move troops over their road next turn, right?

	01-05-2003 02:35									#196
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That is possible. We should inquire.

	01-05-2003 02:35									#197
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They should be able to move their troops over their road next turn no matter what. The Worker jobs will be finished at the beginning of the turn, and would give them 6 Worker turns so far on that road, so it will be finished.

	01-05-2003 02:38									#198
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Worker jobs finish at the end of the turn. (That's not particularly obvious in SP, but it's impossible to miss in MP where you see improvements finish between the time you hit Enter to end your turn and the time the save gets sent out.) So if the road isn't there now, it shouldn't be during their turn either unless they use the Road To exploit. (Or unless something works very differently from how it looks like it works, now that I think about it.)

	01-05-2003 02:41									#199
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When did they move their Workers onto the tile? I don't have any screenshots that far back.

	01-05-2003 02:45									#200
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The workers make their first appearance there in the 610 BC screenshots. So they've been working on the road for two turns now.

	01-05-2003 02:47									#201
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We then it would make a difference for them. I was thinking they got there a turn sooner, and the road would be available to them next turn. If they didn't use road-to, it won't be available next.

	01-05-2003 02:48									#202
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The road should complete at the end of Vox's next turn (this turn).

	01-05-2003 02:49									#203
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither That is possible. We should inquire.

how, post a thread on the main forum detailing this and asking if its an exploit beyond the scope of the game?

	01-05-2003 02:49									#204
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Having a road to use a turn earlier than it could be otherwise is an exploit IMO.

	01-05-2003 02:49									#205
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The odd thing is that assuming roads work how I think they do, they're actually available to your enemy before they're available to you unless you use Road To.

	01-05-2003 02:52									#206
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I think if we use it, we should post about it in the PTW Democracy Game forum first to ensure a level playing field in that regard. It seems like too much of an exploit for one team to use it when others likely don't know about it and won't necessarily use it even if they do know.

	01-05-2003 02:57									#207
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I agree, we shouldn't use it unless it is something everyone else (especially Vox) is aware of. If they go for Sandstorm it gives us too much of an advantage to be able to attack with the units on H8, and Vox almost surely wouldn't expect us to be able to do that.

	01-05-2003 03:02									#208
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I also don't think we should use the trick right now. Vox could have cut a turn, maybe two, off their current roading project by using that trick, so we would be manipulating the timing for when the trick goes public to our clear advantage.

	01-05-2003 03:14									#209
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What if they have been using the Road to?

	01-05-2003 03:16									#210
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This is the second tile on the road toward us. They could have used Road To on the first and presumably had a worker on the current tile a turn earlier than they actually did. So I seriously doubt that they're using it for the current tile either.