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notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:27
  Old Post 29-12-2003 08:52
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I would propose the following distinctions.

A: What would we do if we are in a game that is freindly and general agreements are possible. ie, we are gaming in the best of all possible worlds.

B: When the brass knuckles come out, and our opposition is willing to do whatever it takes to win; these things are we prepared to do to remain competitive and they have not been disallowed by house rules or other predefined guidelines.

C: Those things that would be abhorent under any circumstacnes. These things we would rather die than use for any reason.

There is your distinction, Trip. Personally, my placement of the UU question would be somewhere around B. It is certainly nowhere near reloading, nor is it even in the same galaxy as cheating to spy on other teams.

What would remain would be to see where other members of this team would place it, after suitable discussion by those for and against.

Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 29-12-2003 09:01 Visit Trip's homepage!
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And I would place it closer to C.

If teams are willing to go too far to gain an advantage then the entire game is ruined and I don't want to be involved.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:27
  Old Post 29-12-2003 09:05
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Perhaps I have been exposed to too much team sport. When the opponent plays dirty, we play harder. Harder means that many of the things we would not do in a freindly, would become fair game. There are still things we would never do, like take out knees.

Togas is offline Togas
Emperor
California
Jun 2002
time: 21:27
  Old Post 29-12-2003 09:06
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Um, can we split this discussion off into a DEBATE thread about the allies starting each other's GAs and please cut down the posts in this thread?

Please?

--Togas

E_T is offline E_T
Emperor
Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 29-12-2003 09:21
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
There are still things we would never do, like take out knees.


Oh Darn!!

* E_T goes to put away his Axe Handle....



E_T

Togas is offline Togas
Emperor
California
Jun 2002
time: 21:27
  Old Post 07-01-2004 03:49
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letter sent to Croxis of CFC:
quote:

Croxis,

Thank you for your letter. I've posted it to the Apolyton board and will talk to my staff tonight to see if anyone can chat with you then.

I, personally, cannot chat at that time. I work until 5-6 PST which is about 1-2am your time.

But I'll get back to you on if anyone else from our team can meet at that time.

--Togas

quote:


Hello this is croxis from CFC. My government desires to hold a chat with your representatives as soon as possible. Would 10:00 pm GMT on Thursday the 8th of January be an ok date for the chat? Please respond as soon as possible.

croxis - Deputy of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs


Togas is offline Togas
Emperor
California
Jun 2002
time: 21:27
  Old Post 07-01-2004 03:49
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Is anyone free to chat with Croxis of CFC on Thursday @10pm GMT?

If so, please post.

--Togas

Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 07-01-2004 04:14 Visit Trip's homepage!
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I should be available.

ZargonX is offline ZargonX
Emperor
Space
Sep 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 07-01-2004 10:10
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Oh, and here I was about to post that PM from croxis. I guess I wasn't as special as I thought

MrWhereItsAt is offline MrWhereItsAt
Emperor
New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:27
  Old Post 07-01-2004 14:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Togas
Is anyone free to chat with Croxis of CFC on Thursday @10pm GMT?

If so, please post.

--Togas


I possibly could.

What must we know?

Togas is offline Togas
Emperor
California
Jun 2002
time: 21:27
  Old Post 08-01-2004 07:32
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I'm going to inform Croxis that someone from our team (Trip, WIA, and others) will meet with him tomorrow at 10pm GMT.

To discuss:

The handover of Equ4
Any Lux trades we may want to enter into in the near future.
Their economic potential so that we can gage a fair amount of GPT for them to contribute.
When they'll start handing over GPT.
Destroying GCA's galley in the lake.
Chatting about GCA & WW (the future UN matter)
and anything else that comes to mind.

--Togas

Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 09-01-2004 05:26 Visit Trip's homepage!
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Arnelos and I chatted with CFC earlier today, and there were a few things worked out (with a few left for the future, like the Equil 4 handover).

We discussed the tech situation. Basically, CFC will start 40-turn research on Monarchy now, and then either Printing Press or Music Theory after they're done with that (and we have Education).

CFC will become a Republic in 3 turns. We estimated their GPT will probably be 35-40 GPT, which is more than we were expecting. Once they are into Republic (and the Harbor at Incensity is completed) we will be doing a Dyes for GPT deal. They will provide 35-40 GPT to us and we will provide them with Dyes (since they will probably need them to avoid disorder). Once we are finished with Invention, they will provide us with a lump sum of the gold they have saved up. Thus, we get an unbreakable GPT deal and we suck them dry of their treasury.

We should get all of this officially confirmed before they are out of Anarchy so we can get started on the Dyes-for-GPT deal.

Dominae is offline Dominae
Emperor

Jan 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 09-01-2004 05:47
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Monarchy!? Who needs that?

Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 09-01-2004 06:19 Visit Trip's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Dominae
Monarchy!? Who needs that?

What would you suggest they do instead?

Dominae is offline Dominae
Emperor

Jan 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 09-01-2004 10:29
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If the idea is still to trigger our GA and/or CFC's with Wonders, then the Hanging Gardens would definitely be useful (and necessary, if we both want a GA). So the 40-some Gold to research Monarchy makes sense in this case.

By the way, if anything is a gameplay exploit, 40-turn research is; the designers certainly did not put a maximum time on research just so that human players could get rich! Perhaps we should vote to decide whether this tactic is honorable or not? (I'm kidding, of course...)


Dominae

Dominae is offline Dominae
Emperor

Jan 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 09-01-2004 10:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Trip
Once we are finished with Invention, they will provide us with a lump sum of the gold they have saved up.


Are they allowed to use some of this as they see fit during the 40-turn period, or are we to see all of it? If the latter, will we be monitoring, or at least keeping track of, their cash flow during this period? 40-turn research at ~40gpt means we can expect upwards of 1600 Gold from them at the end of this deal (or more like 2000+, as they're in full growth right now). That's 20-25 Riders.


Dominae

Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 09-01-2004 10:48 Visit Trip's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Dominae
Are they allowed to use some of this as they see fit during the 40-turn period, or are we to see all of it? If the latter, will we be monitoring, or at least keeping track of, their cash flow during this period? 40-turn research at ~40gpt means we can expect upwards of 1600 Gold from them at the end of this deal (or more like 2000+, as they're in full growth right now). That's 20-25 Riders.

Our alliance agreement does not obligate them to give us all of their gold, so they will indeed have some gold to work with.

However, we will share or economic information, and we will do our best to suck them dry. So far in negotiation, they have been very supportive of giving nearly all of their gold to us.

Dominae is offline Dominae
Emperor

Jan 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 10-01-2004 00:02
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"We will do our best to suck them dry..."

Sounds to me like all CFC needs to do is start another hissy fit, and that's 0 Gold for us. I'm no diplomat, but should we not lay down the exact details of this deal? It's not so long ago that we and CFC were not exactly the best of friends. Until we've been cooperating economically for some time, a fair dose of mistrust is still in order (secret mistrust, of course).


Dominae

Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 10-01-2004 00:39 Visit Trip's homepage!
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They could, and it is important to get an exact deal nailed down soon.

Unfortunately, while they're in Anarchy it's impossible to determine how much support they can provide. If we set a # now, it may either be well above their GPT or well below, neither of which would be a good situation. Once they enter Republic, we're going to set up a definitive deal right away.

Dominae is offline Dominae
Emperor

Jan 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 10-01-2004 02:56
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Why not just set a percentage instead of a number?

As far as I can tell, it's not really important how much we're getting out of the deal, as long as CFC is keeping their end of the bargain (and therefore helping us along in research). Telling them we want, say, 90% of their gpt for the next 40 turns ought to do the trick.


Dominae

Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 10-01-2004 03:53 Visit Trip's homepage!
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It's worth consideration. I will discuss the issue with CFC next time we are together in chat.

Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 15-01-2004 10:46 Visit Trip's homepage!
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A chat has been scheduled with CFC for 5pm EST on the day they recieve their next turn. This is so that we can determine their exact GPT once they exit Anarchy (next turn). The day will probably be either Friday or Saturday.

Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 17-01-2004 23:59 Visit Trip's homepage!
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Chat has been rescheduled it looks like...

quote:
It was my understanding that the chat was supposed to be on Friday at 5pm EST, which would have been cancelled back due to no save, of course. I did not get any update for the new chat time, and unfortunately will not be able to make the one listed here. Also, with our President on vacation for a week, I really want to be involved in negotiations but unfortunately weekends are usually tough for me to schedule.

Of course, there is always the chance that we will not enter Republic this turn, so I believe I am safe to assume we can still play the save in that case. But in the interim, should a chat schedule not pan out for this weekend AND we enter Republic, I would like to send back 20 gold accepted as a show of good faith so that I may move the turn on. Then we can hit the negotiation table on Monday at either 5pm EST or 10pm EST, when Togas becomes available. Does that sound fair?

Please let me know, and please send the save as soon as possible. And please feel free to post this correspondence for your people.

Respectfully,

Donovan Zoi

I sent him a response back saying it was unfortunate that the chat cannot be held today (especially as I told a few CFC quite explicitly I wanted a chat either Friday or Saturday depending on when they get the save...) and that hopefully we can work things out later.

BigFree is offline BigFree

Emperor
Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:27
  Old Post 18-01-2004 00:43
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From the ISDGFAMTALKS Channel:

quote:

(09:33) (DX_Zoi) Please send a copy of the save at your earliest convenience
(09:33) (DX_Zoi) It was not attached to your recent email
(09:34) (DX_Zoi) Also, please note my reply to your original email
(09:36) (DX_Zoi) I won't be able to play the save until tonite or Sunday AM EST, so please see that I have it by then. Thanks again

BigFurryMonster is offline BigFurryMonster
Emperor
EMPEROR of Cats
Feb 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 18-01-2004 14:01 Visit BigFurryMonster's homepage!
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The save has been resent by Trip, it seems.

They really want us to keep as friends, since they're already wanting to send over gold in return for not showing up at a chat beyond their fault...

Donegeal is offline Donegeal
King
Apolyton's Resident Law Enforcement Officer. Founder of the Glory of War, Champions of Apolyton!
Jul 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 18-01-2004 16:05
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...or they are trying to lull us into a sense of calm to catch us unprepaired.

Dominae is offline Dominae
Emperor

Jan 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 18-01-2004 19:58
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Well, according to the proposed agreement that Gold belongs to us, so their gift is nothing more than a gesture.


Dominae

BigFurryMonster is offline BigFurryMonster
Emperor
EMPEROR of Cats
Feb 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 19-01-2004 01:24 Visit BigFurryMonster's homepage!
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Togas/Trip - will you reschedule the chat with CFC?

Togas is offline Togas
Emperor
California
Jun 2002
time: 21:27
  Old Post 19-01-2004 10:42
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I'll be available to chat @8pm EST on Monday, but so long as we have team members in our chatroom ready for CFC, let's move forward. The key things for us to do in this next chat is to get numbers and (ideally) a screenshot of their F1 screen. Once we have those in place we work out a fair percentage of their income ... probably based on what percentage of our income is going to taxes.

We then explain to them why we came to that number, convince them that it's fair, and then arrange for them to start up the GPT in that amount.

We should also update them on the Equilibrium situation and on our current research projects.

--Togas

BigFurryMonster is offline BigFurryMonster
Emperor
EMPEROR of Cats
Feb 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 19-01-2004 13:22 Visit BigFurryMonster's homepage!
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Will we need to (are we prepared to) give them information (like our F1 screen) to convince them?

 
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