28-04-2003 11:32									#1
	FA: CFC Diplomacy Thread Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

We have made contact with CFC on turn 44. Please review that turnthread for more details.

As of this time the only thing we can offer them is Alphabet. We are to immediately attempt to establish contact with CFC to open negotiations. It is very likely that a trade will not occur this turn, but we should explore it first before we write off the possibility.

There is an immediate need for a CFC ambassador. A quick review through the possible ambassador PMs I received gives me no one that specifically wanted to have CFC. If you have any particular interest in this vital Ambassador post, please PM me.

Master Zen will serve as interum Ambassador to CFC.

1) Chat with CFC. Exchange tech knowledge for possible trade. Find out if a trade is possible.

2) Discover who they have contact with, exchange who we have contact with, then consider if we should negotiate deal with them whereby we give them writing for contacts.

3) Aquire gossip and rumors, especially about CDG. Begin to foster good will.

Notes:

CDG has contact with CFC. GCA does not. GCA or CFC would both pay to have contact, and we should be the brokers, not CDG. CDG, knowing how they tried to keep us from GCA, will likely want to keep CFC & others apart.

CFC is Ind + Mil and most likely has the techs we have ... masonry, WC, Wheel, etc. There are few techs they might posess that we couldn't easily get from GCA. The most valuable thing CFC most likely posesses is contacts, which is what we should work hardest to discover.

More notes will be posted as we discover more about CFC.

--Togas

	28-04-2003 12:32									#2
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During our ISDG chat we discussed the possibilty of offering Alphabet in a deal consisting of either cash or future contacts or techs.

It is in our best interests to offer Alphabet ASAP as CDG will likely know of our contact with them during the next turn so we must take the opportunity to try and get something out of CFC before CDG does. For that reason we have agreed to sit on the save as much as possible until tomorrow we can hopefully set up a chat with an official CFC representative and negotiate this before the turn is sent.

Possible options for the deal would be

1) Cash. We would probably negotatiate a price within 80 to 20 gold, being most likely 60-30 the actual range to be offered (from highest price to lowest)

2) Future tech deal. We'd have to agree on CFC reasearching a certain tech or techs.

3) Future contact deal. We could trade for contact, either at this moment or in the future.


Anyway, I will be acting as Ambassador to CFC during these negotiations, however, this post is only temporary as a permanent representative should be found later. Anyone interested please contact me or Togas.

-MZ

	28-04-2003 12:39									#3
	Inflate your Upload Space

Chat with Croxis, an ISDG member at CFC is posted in the correspondance thread here:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...035#post1946035

Interesting thing to note is that our original ploy and slip up to find out what GCA knew about CFC proved to be wrong, yet it probably fostered some panic about how we have contact with another civ and they do not.

Anyways, here's hoping to goodluck.

If MasterZen gets bored or no one else expresses interest, I wouldn't mind handling two ambassadorships

	28-04-2003 18:57									#4
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This has a big effect on what tech we choose next. We must find out what tech CFC is going for and try to see if they would be willing to make a deal. This could resolve the differences of opinion on whether to go for Mapmaking or Code of Laws.

	28-04-2003 19:09									#5
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Burn and pillage!


Err, I mean...

	28-04-2003 19:54									#6
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I agree with Master Zen that, with respect to trading Alphabet, time is of the essence. That's a nice 5 tech points we've basically been given for free. Trading Contacts between CFC and GCA should also happen quickly, as the possibility is very real that we will lose the opportunity.


Dominae

	28-04-2003 22:20									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

Received from the cfc msdg mail address:

Greetings to you as well. I would be delighted to chat with anyone either
through e-mail or via mIRC at any time, but preferably sooner, than later,
as we are anxious to receive the save and examine the situation first hand.

In the meantime, allow me to introduce myself. I am FortyJ, President
Elect and member of the ambassadorial staff for the great nation of
Fanatikou. While the actual transfer of power does not take place for a
few turns, my position in the ambassadorial staff should suffice for
conducting talks for the time being.

If you wish to chat online via mIRC, I invite you to visit us in our
embassy chat room located on the irc.webmaster.net server in the chat room
#demogame_CFC_Embassy. I look forward to hearing from you soon.

FortyJ

>
> Greetings. The Great Explorer is a welcome sight, even though we are
> seperated by... obstacles.
>
> FYI. We have contact in game. Some of us are trying to raise some of
> you before we send the turn on. Any takers?
>
> Sincerely
> nye
>

Someone can copy it into the correspondence thread if that is where it belongs.

	29-04-2003 01:02									#8
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Update from our first chat with CFC

FortyJ (incoming President), Cheiftess, and Croxis met with us on DalNet in #isdg channel this morning. Present from Poly: Togas, Master Zen, WhiteBandit, Trip, and BigFurryMonster.

A full log of the chat will be posted in the Correspondence Thread.

News:

CFC claims they have recently moved to the position we found them at, but they were unclear on when they met CDG.

They did not want to discuss who they had contact with. We will bring up the subject again later.

They claim they are close to finishing Iron Working, but it is very likely that they are getting it from CDG. They have not decided what they will be researching next.

Their civ is located to the South West of CDG ... which means they could be west of GCA and that they could have contact with them.

They felt our initial offer of 75g for Alphabet was "steep" ... said they did not have much cash and could only pay 20g for it. When the offer was initially made, they wanted to wait a couple turns to think about it. It's very likely that they want to try for a bidding war over Alphabet. We should contact them soon and let them know that we are willing to negotiate a price that is acceptable to both parties.

As with all initial meetings, they were very reluctant to share any details. We will continue to warm them up to us with charm and humor and will continue to post our progress.

--Togas

p.s. I am still in need of a CFC ambassador. Please PM me if you are interested.

	29-04-2003 01:04									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

Log posted of the informal team chat we had with CFC today.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...636#post1947636

Discuss!

	29-04-2003 02:55									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

I think we might have been a little too freely giving of information with CFC.

We made mention of how CDG was trying to block things and we had somewhat of a "crisis" but things had calmed down. I see no need to tell them that. We went out of our way to prevent GCA from finding that information out (at least from us), and I don't see anything good coming from telling CFC anything about our relations with other teams.

The other things said I have no big problem with, but telling other teams what our relations with teams are is a bad hole to fall into. We need to keep that information to ourselves at all times.

	29-04-2003 03:35									#11
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I think that CDG just might have another warrior that is past the Isthmus and is scouting out for more contacts. The Warrior is not to prevent CFC from getting contact with us, but for them to prevent us from getting contact with anyone else for as long as they can.

This is a major hunch and I'm going to act like it's a fact.

E_T

	29-04-2003 03:46									#12
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I don't think that's likely.

Right now their military is weak compared to ours, which means they probably have 2 fewer units than us (and we even lost BH). They probably have a Warrior down south of GCA, they have Morris over on the eastern peninsula, Arnold guarding the isthmus... that's 3 Warriors right there. If they have another Warrior over on the other side of the isthmus, that would mean their cities would be very very weakly defended, which I wouldn't find very likely.

	29-04-2003 07:38									#13
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Perhaps we were pretty forthcoming with the info, but reading the chatlog to me makes us seem very friendly, as if we were already best friends with CFC.

It is quite possible that what we have given in terms of info will not harm us ( I can't really see how it would), but will in fact [I]endear[/U] us to CFC. We are clearly wanting to trade with them and are prepared to talk - giving a little of our own info in order to foster trust and a dialogue.

I say we need to pay close attention to what we don't want to reveal, but I don't think we have compromised our principles in that this time round. If we keep up this sort of attitude, we may well end up with a freind in the game.

	29-04-2003 07:42									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

Attitudes are one thing. What goes on behind closed doors is quite another. Information flows more freely than gold, and the fewer teams that know about our diplomatic standing the better. I wouldn't want CFC to know about our relations any more than I want CDG or GCA to know. Thus far, CDG and GCA have been very good at concealing information, and I'm rather impressed. While this doesn't give a very good impression of them, we don't know what they're up to either. To us, they're neutral right now. Hell, for all we know, they could be discussing our demise right now.

I just feel that on that one subject we need to be very wary of what we reveal. Tech information, how much gold we have, how big our military is, where we're located, how many cities we have, I don't care about anything else. Tell them anything else you want. But that's the one thing I will not yield on.

Thanks for listening to my rant, I'm just very passionate about that.

	29-04-2003 07:43									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I would like to apologize for my abrupt walkout from the CFC chat this moring. My computer got disconnected and I received a phone call at that moment about my thesis work which forced me to leave right after, I was able to tell Togas and WB about this before I left, as well as saying I would most likely be away all day.

Since I had offered to be temporary CFC ambassor I sort of feel I did not fullfill my duty, unfortunately, RL has a nasty habit of popping up when you least expect it. I am sure that after wednesday I will be much less occupied and plan on being part of any future CFC chat and this does not in any way compromise my involvement in the ISDG.

Again, a sincere apology from my part.

-MZ

	29-04-2003 11:24									#16
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A suggestion....

If we ask CFC to move their warrior back 1 step, we may fool CDG that we did not actually meet them.

ie
CDG turn 1, they will see CFC warrior only
CDG turn 2 they will see our warrior only

If they are smart, they may realise we met...but hey...maybe not.

The benefits of doing this..probably nothing...but then again if we get away with it...CDG may not jump in and try to undercut us on the alphabet deal.

	30-04-2003 03:50									#17
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Worth a shot... such little plans cost us nothing, but may add up to a sizeable advantage in time.

	30-04-2003 11:22									#18
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As my first act as ambassador, I met FortyJ in the CFC embassy room today, as well as CivGeneral (their Defense Minister) just to introduce myself. We exchanged contact info, said "hi", and discussed nothing pertaining to the game Once we have some deals to work out with them, I'll reconnect.

	30-04-2003 18:37									#19
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

When I stopped by their chatroom, Octavian talked with me, explaining that this was the end of his term and if I needed to talk with him about anything, that I could.

He explained that the only tech they had that we didn't was IW (which, if NYE's research is correct, isn't true, and they should have it soon), and that we could make an offer to them for it. Though I think Togas mentioned that we have a deal with another team, I didn't really reply to the question.

He also pointed out that they have a place where they can set up private forums for each of the teams, and told me that we could post in one of the threads at one of their public offshoot forums to get added. I mentioned that if a bunch of Apolyton members sign up asking for a private forum there that other teams would know we had contact, and that's not what I wanted. Octavian relented, and told me that we could just sign up, PM one of the mods there, and we could secretly open a forum.

However, to what ends? We have enough forums, and email/chat seems to work fine for contact.

I'll try to find the link that he gave me.

	30-04-2003 20:44									#20
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In chat CFC mentioned that they were researching Iron Working ... they also implied that they had recently met CDG.

"Researching" as Trip well knows from his days as the Lux Invicta despot means the same thing as "will get the tech from Vox Controli pretty soon."

Their reluctance to make an early trade with us is likely due to ongoing negotiations with CDG, and possibly some opportunism on their part -- trying to get the best deal possible.

ZargonX -- Contact CFC and tell them that we would like to set up a chat with them for Thursday (at a time that you can attend) and let them know that we are willing to meet them half-way on a sale of Alphabet OR negotiate future tech trades where we give them Alphabet now for tech they will get in the future.

Get back to us if a chat time is established.

--Togas

	01-05-2003 02:58									#21
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PM sent to FortyJ to try and set up a meeting tomorrow.

quote: FortyJ, I was hoping we could set up a time to hold an official meeting sometime on Thursday. What times are good for you? There are several items we'd like to discuss with you, if you have the chance. Hope to hear from you soon! Thanks, ZargonX

	01-05-2003 09:08									#22
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Togas In chat CFC mentioned that they were researching Iron Working ... they also implied that they had recently met CDG. "Researching" as Trip well knows from his days as the Lux Invicta despot means the same thing as "will get the tech from Vox Controli pretty soon." Their reluctance to make an early trade with us is likely due to ongoing negotiations with CDG, and possibly some opportunism on their part -- trying to get the best deal possible. ZargonX -- Contact CFC and tell them that we would like to set up a chat with them for Thursday (at a time that you can attend) and let them know that we are willing to meet them half-way on a sale of Alphabet OR negotiate future tech trades where we give them Alphabet now for tech they will get in the future. Get back to us if a chat time is established. --Togas

hi ,


, why should we give them now without getting anything back now , ..... its risky , ....... they could say NO , ......

we should be very carefull with them (!)

have a nice day

	03-05-2003 03:19									#23
	Got spare money?

We should be splitting the cost of CB with CFC after they buy it from GCA. Let's hope that arrangement works out.

	03-05-2003 03:28									#24
	Put an end to popups!

Had a chat with Zarn & Goonie of CFC this afternoon. Zarn is their new FAM guy and Goonie is appointed ambassador to our team.

The important parts of the chatlog are posted in correspondence.

Some highlights:

They claim to be working on CB next. However, they agreed to split the cost of Ceremonial Burial with us, and liked the idea I proposed to them: That one of us buy it and sell it to the other for 1/2 price, thereby we'd split the cost of the tech evenly between us, and the seller (GCA) would only make 1 sale. They are going to chat with GCA, send us the log, and after they buy it offer it to us for 1/2 the price.

As they claim to only have 20g they will certainly keep the price low, which means a low price for us. We could aquire CB via trade, but a 1/2 price purchase like this is a great value and it helps to improve our relations with CFC as we're "working together" on this.

They claim to only have contact with CDG & GCA, and if they are to be believed, this continent is just the 4 of us. They said they'd let us know if they got contact with any other teams.

They claim to have no agreements with other nations.

They are interested in a Non-Agg pact with us. I told them I'd send them a draft and they'll review it.

I revealed that we're working on Mapmaking and want to work out a deal in the future to sell it to them. Hopefully this will keep them from trying to go the MM route, and help maximise our trade potential for the tech.

Later on, OctavianX joined and agreed that the continent surrounds a large body of water. He said they're stuck behind 2 land bridges other nations control. He then confirmed that GCA & CDG have trapped them.

They seem very interested in trading maps.

--Togas

	03-05-2003 03:31									#25
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Hmmm... If CDG is blocking a land bridge in the far north, and GCA is blocking a land bridge in the far south, that means that CFC must have a lot of land to itself, if there really isn't anyone else on our continent.

	03-05-2003 13:21									#26
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Interesting how forthcoming they seemed to have been. Unless they are deliberately misleading us (leading to repercussions later if we discover they lied), then perhaps how forthcoming WE were lead them to reveal more than they might have otherwise.

	03-05-2003 18:02									#27
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Trip Hmmm... If CDG is blocking a land bridge in the far north, and GCA is blocking a land bridge in the far south, that means that CFC must have a lot of land to itself, if there really isn't anyone else on our continent.

hi ,

, .... yes and no , ...

we could do the same

we could try to get some settlers past them , ..... by sea

this could mean they actually dont have a large amount of troops and try to block that land bridge in order not to show us , ....

have a nice day

	03-05-2003 21:40									#28
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quote: Originally posted by panag we could try to get some settlers past them , ..... by sea have a nice day

Why would we want to do that? Found cities far from our territory when we haven't even finished REXing?

	03-05-2003 21:42									#29
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

By the way, I'm surprised no one has made a big deal of Trip's espionage at the CFC chatroom which saw Darekill and Zayxus of the German team looking for a CFC representative.

I mean, you don't just show up at someone's chat looking for a talk when you don't even have contact. That was WAAAAY too suspicious. I think they might have contact.

	03-05-2003 21:58									#30
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Why would we want to do that? Found cities far from our territory when we haven't even finished REXing?

hi ,

well one thing we definatly should do is build a city there ( landbridges ) for our fleets and defense , ......

it could be intresting if we find land there close to the sea with for an instance a lux or so , ..... (!)

have a nice day