 |
| |
|
|
SlowwHand
|
 |
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:27
|
|
I posted this same thing, at a place they might care.
Never one to slight the mental range of the majority of ACS posters, I share with you now, also.
And the feeding frenzy can begin. 
The war in Vietnam ended today as the government in Saigon announced its unconditional surrender to the Vietcong.
The President, Duong Van Minh, who has been in office for just three days, made the announcement in a radio broadcast to the nation early this morning. He asked his forces to lay down their arms and called on the Vietcong to halt all hostilities.
In a direct appeal to the Communist forces, he said: "We are here to hand over to you the power in order to avoid bloodshed."
The announcement was followed swiftly by the arrival of Vietcong troops. Their entrance was virtually unopposed, confounding predictions of a bloody and protracted last-ditch battle for the city.
War ends
The front line of tanks smashed through the gates of the presidential palace within minutes, and at 1130 local time (0330 GMT), decades of war came to an end.
Vietcong troops, many barefoot and some no more than teenagers, rounded up government soldiers, and raised their red and blue flags. The looting which has ravaged the city over the last 24 hours stopped, and power was restored later in the day. Only the United States embassy remained closed and silent, ransacked by looters.
Saigon was immediately renamed Ho Chi Minh City. A statement by the Provisional Revolutionary Government, or PRG, in Paris, promised a policy of non-alignment, and the peaceful reunification of Vietnam.
The British government is now urgently reviewing the possibility of recognising the PRG. France has already recognised the new regime, and other Western countries are preparing to follow suit.
Frenzied evacuation
The capitulation of the South Vietnamese government came just four hours after the last frenzied evacuation of Americans from the city. President Ford, who has requested humanitarian aid for the Vietnamese, let it be known that he was proud to have saved what Vietnamese he could in the last, frantic helicopter evacuation.
But there is said to be deep humiliation in the United States government at the desperation and chaos of the final hours of America's presence in Vietnam.
The President ordered United States ships to remain indefinitely off the Vietnamese coast to pick up refugees: but even this gesture has been snubbed by the North Vietnamese, who have prevented any more refugees from fleeing.
South Vietnamese civilians outside the US Embassy in Saigon scrambled to reach evacuation helicopters on April 29, 1975. (AP Photo)
HO CHI MINH CITY
Unparalleled panic
By H.D.S. Greenway, Globe Staff, 4/30/2000
he helicopter that took me away from Saigon rose from the compound of the American Embassy in a sudden squall. I could see below me panicked masses in the rain-washed streets desperate to get away. To the north, ammunition dumps were blowing up and fires raged in the distance.
We crossed the coast in the gathering dark where an American fleet lay waiting offshore to receive us. South Vietnamese helicopters, like butterflies borne on an offshore wind, landed briefly on the ships before being tossed overboard to make room for more, or, as if exhausted, fell into the sea themselves. What happened to their crews I do not know.
All about us in the darkness were the flotillas of overcrowded boats - the first hemorrhaging of Vietnamese that would grow to more than a million in the years to come. It was April, 29, 1975.
America's last day in Vietnam began with the sound of artillery shells bursting in the city. There had been weeks of rising tension as the South Vietnamese Army disintegrated before a North Vietnamese offensive, and this time there were no American troops, planes, or even advisors to help them.
Unparalleled scenes of panic had unfolded in the northern cities with hundreds trying to claw their way aboard the last departing boats and planes, some even hanging onto the wheels of aircraft as the debacle spread south.
On little transistor radios that reporters had, we could hear the communication traffic between the American Embassy and the airport. ''Tan Son Nhut (airport) being heavily shelled,'' said a voice. ''Four rounds in five seconds on the flight line.'' Two US Marines from the embassy had been killed: Corporal Darwin Judge and Corporal Charles McMahon, the last Americans to die in the Vietnam War. The first had been Lieutenant Colonel Peter Dewey, an officer in the OSS, who was ambushed trying to reach this same airport in 1945.
In the last weeks of April 1975, Americans and Vietnamese who worked for them had been flying out of the city to Guam, to the Philippines. Now those flights would end and the only way out would be by helicopter.
All Americans had been issued a map with instructions telling them where to report ''should it be felt necessary for US personnel to report to their designated assembly areas....'' The word ''evacuation'' was never mentioned in the instructions. We were told to keep tuned to the radio for a weather report announcing: ''105 degrees and rising,'' which would be followed by 30 seconds of Bing Crosby singing ''White Christmas.'' This would be the signal to report to designated areas and await the helicopters. I never heard the signal nor met anyone who ever did.
I decided to go to the embassy, where, during the day, surrealistic scenes would unfold, with hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Vietnamese clamoring at the gates to be let in, and the embassy staff shredding documents and burning money, lest it fall into enemy hands.
When the helicopters arrived, the wind from their rotors sent shredded secrets bursting from their bags and flying over the walls into the city that was about to be abandoned. It was clear by afternoon that not all the Vietnamese that had been compromised by working for the Americans were coming with us. The knowledge of the coming betrayal kept many eyes averted. Many Vietnamese left behind would spend up to 20 years in concentration camps being ''reeducated''; many would die of neglect and malnutrition.
At first the city seemed not to realize what was going on, but as afternoon came, word spread and Saigon began to seethe with the rolling-eyed fear of animals caught in a burning barn. The crowds outside the embassy increased while American Marine guards beat back those who tried to climb over the wall, heedless of the barbed wire. As if from drowning passengers around a sinking ship, a moaning clamor arose outside the compound as the Vietnamese outside saw the helicopters come and go without them.
Cobra gunships swooped over the rooftops, ready to fire if the evacuation was impeded, but except for a few shots fired by angry South Vietnamese soldiers, the evacuation went on without hindrance and none of the helicopters was lost.
Later that evening, US Ambassador Graham Martin would arrive aboard a rescue ship by helicopter with his dog, which he had taken pains to rescue, and the following morning, North Vietnamese tanks would crash through the gates of Saigon's presidential palace. The 30-year war was over.
This story ran on page M17 of the Boston Globe on 4/30/2000.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
SlowwHand
|
|
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:27
|
|
Yes, Dan.
I posted this, too, at the other place:
"I went DDA (Direct Duty Assignment) to Travis AFB, Gateway To The Pacific, from Basic Training.
Years later, on a job site, I met a young guy who, with his family, was evacuated.
When I was introduced to him, and he found I had participated, the appreciation expressed was profound.
Every day, I mean every single day afterwards, the guy would bring some "food treat" to me.
But no, the South Vietnamese didn't want us there.  "
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Ned
|
 |
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:27
|
|
The question Kennedy should have asked before getting involved is how do we win. The only answer should have been was to conquer the North. But, since that was never on the agenda, we could never have won that "war."
In the book, We Were Soldiers, MacNamara concluded in 1965-6 that the North was mobilizing and that we would have to increase our forces in Vietnam dramatically just to not lose. He estimated that we would have to increase our forces to 450k in the next year just to match the NV, and to 650 to "win." He estimated that if we simply matched the NV, we could expect 1,000 US casualties a month, but many times that for the NV.
Well, we all know the option Johnson chose - the no win, no lose option of a meatgrinder. The more I learn about what Johnson and Kennedy did, the more I am increasingly dismayed.
Contrast the Kennedy/Johnson strategy in Vietnam with the Gulf War, Afghanistan and now Iraq. What a difference.
Hopefully, we never elect such presidents again. NEVER. Beware of peaceniks posing as presidential candidates. They will kill a lot of Americans.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
SlowwHand
|
|
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:27
|
|
Left people like this running the show.
China was a big part of any success the North had in this fiasco.
Khmer Rouge
Related: Southeast Ancient History
(kemer´ roozh) , name given to native Cambodian Communists. Khmer Rouge soldiers, aided by North Vietnamese and Viet Cong troops, began a large-scale insurgency against government forces in 1970, quickly gaining control over more than two thirds of the country. The strength of the Khmer Rouge rose dramatically from around 3,000 in 1970 to more than 30,000 in 1973, enabling most of the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong troops to withdraw. In 1975 the movement, led by Pol Pot , overthrew the Cambodian government, establishing “Democratic Kampuchea.” The new government carried out a radical program of evacuating cities, closing schools and factories, and herding the population into collective farms. Intellectuals and skilled workers were assassinated, and a total of perhaps as many as 1.5 million died, inclusive of starvation and forced marches. In 1979, after increasing tensions with Vietnam, Vietnamese troops invaded, aiding a rival Communist faction to depose the Khmer Rouge government. The Khmer Rouge, however, continued to field an army of c.30,000 near the Thai border and retained UN recognition as the official Cambodian government. In 1982 it formed a coalition with former premier Norodom Sihanouk and non-Communist leader Son Sann. Khieu Samphan officially succeeded Pol Pot as head of the Khmer Rouge in 1985, but Pol Pot was believed to remain the real leader. All Cambodian factions signed (1991) a treaty calling for UN-supervised elections and disarming 70% of all forces. In 1992 the United Nations assumed the government's administrative functions, while the Khmer Rouge withdrew from the peace process and resumed fighting. The following year the Khmer Rouge rejected the results of the UN-run elections that brought a coalition government to Cambodia. The guerrilla force lost about half to three quarters of its strength (3,000-4,000 soldiers) in a mass defection in 1996. Factional fighting within the Khmer Rouge in 1997 led to Pol Pot's ouster, trial, and imprisonment by the Khmer Rouge. The group continued to disintegrate, and factional fighting resumed in 1998. Pol Pot died in April, Khieu Samphan surrendered in Dec., 1998, and by 1999 most members had defected, surrendered, or been captured.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
SlowwHand
|
|
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:27
|
|
If you think references to Cambodia and/or Laos are not related, think again.
And this is the kind of crap that makes we wild.
30 Apr 2003 04:08:34 GMT
Rights group urges U.N. to block Khmer Rouge trial
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PHNOM PENH, April 30 (Reuters) - Human Rights Watch urged the United Nations on Wednesday not to approve a draft deal with Cambodia to try the leaders of the Khmer Rouge genocide because a planned court did not meet decent standards of justice.
A committee of the U.N. General Assembly is expected later this week to consider the deal which was finally hammered out in March after more than five years of protracted negotiations.
An estimated 1.7 million people died under the ultra-Maoist Khmer Rouge's four-year reign of terror in the 1970s. Most of the victims were executed or died of starvation, overwork or disease as the Khmer Rouge vision of a peasant utopia in the southeast Asian nation turned into the nightmare of the "Killing Fields".
"Cambodians deserve the highest standards of justice to prosecute those responsible. They deserve to know the truth about what happened, and why," said Mike Jendrzejczyk of the rights group's Asia division.
"Instead, this proposal represents the lowest standards yet for a tribunal with U.N. participation."
Chief U.N. negotiator Hans Corell has said the unprecedented joint Cambodian-U.N. format was "cumbersome", but added he hoped the complex checks and balances enshrined within the deal, as well as intense media scrutiny, would ensure a fair trial.
Human Rights Watch said the Cambodian government, which is still littered with former Khmer Rouge officials and soldiers, including Prime Minister Hun Sen, would be able to exert strong influence over proceedings.
The New York-based group also criticised the lack of any serious plans for the protection of witnesses, victims and court personnel.
Amnesty International has voiced similar concerns and urged the U.N. General Assembly not to give the deal the thumbs up.
However, many diplomats in Phnom Penh say that by blocking the deal the U.N. would be depriving ordinary Cambodians of the last chance to see those responsible for one of the 20th century's worst atrocities in the dock.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Menlas
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Contrast the Kennedy/Johnson strategy in Vietnam with the Gulf War, Afghanistan and now Iraq. What a difference.
|
Contrast the North Vietnam army and equipment with the Iraq/Afghanistan ones. What a difference.
(not to speak about the battlefield, which was *slightly* different in Vietnam than in Iraq)
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:27.
Apolyton Time is 00:27. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
30-04-2003 20:19
May our government never lead us into such a quagmire again.
|