02-05-2003 09:59									#121
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Come on guys, this is as "World" Piggy Bank

	02-05-2003 10:03									#122
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Is there anything all inconsistent with this not being the world in 1918 or early 1919, given some time lag to actually get the map on the product?

The point about the German border probably reflects that it was unsettled in 1918. Ditto the enclave around Koernigsburg. These probably came in later by vote: i.e., they voted to stay with Germany.

	02-05-2003 10:03									#123
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by cinch Well, Labrador as a whole certainly wasn't part of the Dominion at its inception (1867): The southern part of Labrador *was* originally part of Quebec, though, as you can see (if the picture shows). And, apparently, most of Labrador (save for the extreme coast?) was part of Quebec or the NWT until 1949: None of that really matters, though, because on the globe, Newfoundland is the same colour as Canada, while Labrador is not. That's just plain silly.

There was a dispute back then about who actually controlled Labrador. Quebec claimed a large chunk of it, as the maps you posted showed. The boundary dispute ended with Nfld entering confederation, however it is common for Quebec maps tol show Labrador as being part of Quebec.

This globe may have been produced at the end of '48 when Nfld was joining Canada, but before all the details were ironed out.

Maybe Flubber can help us out. I think he's a Newf.

	02-05-2003 10:07									#124
	Remove this text

Tannu Tuva was independent for some period, then was a "protectorate" or some such of the Soviet Union, and then was annexed and dissolved, maybe 1956?

	02-05-2003 10:13									#125
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The Western part of the USSR is named "Siberian Union"

This has got to be before 1922 and after the close of the war in Nov. 11, 1918.

	02-05-2003 10:14									#126
	OK, OK Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Ned, you have a point about "World" Bank. I still say post-WWII. But since most of Africa is still British, French, and Belgian; Germany is not officially divided; it is quite shortly after WWII.

Last edited by Straybow on 02-05-2003 at 10:38

	02-05-2003 10:34									#127
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

The war between Ecuador and Peru was 1925, and Peru took almost all of Ecuador's Amazon possessions (about half of Ecuador's territory). Looks like this is after Ecuador took some of it back. There may have been a third war, but my S. Am. history is sketchy after 20+ years.

Last edited by Straybow on 02-05-2003 at 10:42

	02-05-2003 10:39									#128
	Support Apolyton

Straybow, As I said, not all of Germany was formed in 1918. I can get the details if you want. But there were elections held to decide where certain areas would end up. If this map was drawn in December of 1918, it probably would have shown Germany only as its core element. I believe the "wedge" previously described is Pomerania which joined Germany in 1919 or 1920. East Prussia also joined after the 1919 treaty.

The map of Germany depicted corresponds, to the best as I can figure out, to the borders as defined in the Treaty of Versailles. Here is a link.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/partii.htm

	02-05-2003 10:42									#129
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

This globe warps time

quote: Originally posted by ranskaldan Tannu Tuva = a strip of land that the USSR stole from Mongolia.

STOLE?! IT WAS OURS TO BEGIN WITH AND OURS IT SHALL STAY!

	02-05-2003 10:47									#130
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Actually, this world piggy back might actually be very valuable.

	02-05-2003 10:51									#131
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Hueij Damn, at times like this I wish English was my first language. People tell jokes and I totally completely don't get what they are talking about

"You wanna go out on a date?"
"You wanna date me?"
"You wanna date my wife?"
"You wanna date my globe?"

Get it?

	02-05-2003 10:51									#132
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Ned, I appreciate you trying to push back the age of my globe but I have to go with the consensus here, though I lean toward an earlier 1946 date. As it seems my thread may be winding toward its end I will share with you the last two interesting bits of my globe and may you all have a good night...



The French kick ass.

P.S. The USSR is labelled Soviet Union, the picture of east Asia may make it look like Siberian Union, but 'Siberian' is actually Siberia and 'Soviet' is to the west of 'Union'.

	02-05-2003 10:57									#133
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

The Netherlands kick ass too.

Requests for more globe pictures will be dutifully responded to and if anyone has interesting globes or maps to share please post or any interesting antiques for that matter.

P.S. It might be helpful if I could figure out when the Ohio Art Company was formed, can't find a link tho...

	02-05-2003 11:25									#134
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Is there anything all inconsistent with this not being the world in 1918 or early 1919, given some time lag to actually get the map on the product?

Yeah, most strikingly, the word 'Israel' on the map. There was no such thing in 1919.

It MUST be 1946 - 1948.

	02-05-2003 11:25									#135
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Yes, but Pommeramia and East Prussia would not be shown as part of Poland, wold they? (And don't forget about the Schlesweig-Holstein!)

Just can't be pre-WWII. Poland would have extended 150 miles farther East, curving up around Lithuania. That didn't change in the interwar period. Lithuania, along with Estonia and Latvia, were not annexed to the Soviet Union until 1940. (Here shown as of 1937)

	02-05-2003 11:31									#136
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Oh, and as yaroslav noticed:

quote: Turkey moved her capital to Ankara in 1923, and the map shows Ankara as Turkey's capital

	02-05-2003 11:35									#137
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Lithuania, along with Estonia and Latvia, were not annexed to the Soviet Union until 1940

Ah, that's the best argument that it wasn't 1919 . Obviously Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia aren't on the map (they are part of the USSR).

	02-05-2003 13:00									#138
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Lithuania, along with Estonia and Latvia, were not annexed to the Soviet Union until 1940 Ah, that's the best argument that it wasn't 1919 . Obviously Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia aren't on the map (they are part of the USSR).

Ugh. St. Petersburg was not renamed Leningrad until, I believe, 1926. Right?

Still, Arabia is all wrong for post 1936.

	02-05-2003 13:10									#139
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Clue number 1. Leningrad vs. St. Petersburg vs. Petrograd. The map is post WW 1, post October Revolution. Clue number 2. Existence of Poland, but not with Polish Corridor: After WW 2. Clue number 3: Existence of Yugoslavia. Post WW2, before 1992. Clue number 4: Unified Germany, After 1988. My guess is that the globe dates to 1989. Don't call the antique roadshow just yet.

I actually had this globe as a kid. No kidding.

it is pre-88. look at Labrador.

	02-05-2003 13:18									#140
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by cinch I don't understand the Labrador & Newfoundland business. I was under the impression that the province of "Newfoundland & Labrador" came into being in 1949. Why does this map show Labrador as being part of Great Britain, but have Newfoundland be part of Canada? The whole province joined confederation at the same time, I thought.

Actually I have long wondered about this. since I had this globe.

	02-05-2003 13:20									#141
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Ned Something is wrong about Arabia. It was named Saudi Arabia in 1933 and the border with Yemen, not on the map, was defined in 1936. So this puts the map of this area prior to 1933!

Actually the border with Yemen is still not defined.

	02-05-2003 13:21									#142
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Edan I vote that it was made in an alternate time line where the planet actually had borders like that all at one time, and somehow got to this one in some time/space wormhole.

i likem this

	02-05-2003 13:23									#143
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Adam Smith This globe is the ultimate source of all American confusion about world geography. A veritable Holy Grail of geographical ignorance. Its value as an historical relic is beyond price.

I agree. See the FFS thread on ME goegraphy. I asked about Labrador, becaudeo fhtshs clgoen

	02-05-2003 14:52									#144
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

None of the many Arab city-states are shown, from Bahrain and Qatar to the Emirates to Oman and the Yemen.

None of the borders are very carefully drawn. It is clearly not intended to be reference quality. Get over it.

	02-05-2003 17:22									#145
	Get a bigger avatar today!

All that we can say is that it is a truly crappy map. Sudan being "Anglo-Egyptian" dates the map as being pre-1950s, prior to Gamel Nassar coming to power. Could the map have been designed somewhere around 1949 to 1954, i.e., after the birth of Israel?

	02-05-2003 17:31									#146
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Considering the situation regarding Ireland, St Petersburg and Ankara, it's safe to say this globe is from the mid/late 1920s at the earliest. Add to that that the names (Nora/)Nova Lisboa, Angola (1928) and Yugoslavia (1929) appear on it, and the 1930s become more likely as earliest date.

Since Iran was commonly known as Persia until 1935 and Japan controlled Manchuria from 1931 onwards, it seems unlikely that it's from the 1930s. Not to mention the fact that the Baltics are part of the Soviet Union, while Finland is independent (so can't be pre-WWI either).

Indonesia is still Dutch, Newfoundland not yet part of Canada, Thailand is still known as Siam and Beijing as Peiping, so the latest year this globe could be from is 1949.

Since India is still unified (and has the same color as most other British colonies) and Jordan is still known as Trans-Jordan, this globe is most likely from 1946. The only things which contradict this are the mention of Israel (>1948) and Tannu-Tuva (<1944), but the explanation for that could be that there was a lot of uncertainty on those issues in the first years after WWII. Especially since Palestina and Israel appear to refer to the same territory, this seems a plausible explanation (unless Israel refers to Cyprus )

	02-05-2003 18:08									#147
	Got spare money?

After looking the Baltic states and Finland in the first map, I'd say that the map is from 1941-1944.

	02-05-2003 18:12									#148
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

So according to Finnish history books Germany conquered England but not France in WWII?

	02-05-2003 18:17									#149
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Yeap. According to the history books of Kekkoslovakia, which we had 1945-1995, that is.

I didn't actually concentrated to anything else than to Finland and Baltic states before replying, since I was fairly certain from the years, but it seems that I was wrong.

	02-05-2003 18:23									#150
	Suffering from ads?

The official peace treaty was signed in 1947 between SU and Finland, making the new borders official. So, judging from the state of Israel and Germany, this map is from 1945-1947.