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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:27
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England has picked a strong team for the SH tour, including J. Wilkinson, et al. Interesting to note, though, that Leicester aren't represented in the backs, while they supply their usual plethora - well, six - of forwards. I've never taken huge note of player origins, Havak, is this unusual? Or don't Leicester normally provide backs for England? Or is it a reflection of the Leicester season?
The Australia A team squad has been picked for a short tour of Japan over the next couple of weeks. There are several names that could, arguably, have turned up in the Wallaby squad announced a couple of days ago. I suspect some of them will turn up in the WRC squad.
The consensus is that we have, hopefully, found George Gregan's successor - a 20 year old NSW-born Queensland Reds lad, Josh Valentine. Wonderful hands, quick thinker, great eye. He's too cheeky and aggressive for his own good at the moment, but he will - hopefully - learn. He's off on the Japan tour which will be great experience for him.
Last edited by finbar on 28-05-2003 at 05:55
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Havak
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Swing Low, Sweet Chariots.
Aug 1999
time: 05:27
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Yep, you're a Blues fan. |
That’s a Tigers fan for you – having to follow success where he can still find it. 
So S12 is all over – and the English season, that started in August, has one game left for Tigers this weekend. I guess we play too much rugby!?
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Has to rank for unfairness with your water-buffalo-of a-full-back's pursuit of Elton Flatley at Twickers. |
Wasn’t that amazing? It will stick with me for a long time that one. Robbo was mortally embaressed by it but he has the strength of character to get over it I think. It might be interesting to see the scenario next month with Lewsey at full back – he’s very fast and more powerfully built than Robinson. No doubt Sharpe will sprint past him. 
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Havak supports SH rugby! |
Lesser of two evils.
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And Munster are less than pleased. Latham had signed a letter of intent |
Tricky stuff. This is still a sport where your word is seen as your bond. Bad form as they say.
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I wonder, if we bomb out of the WRC, whether he would want to leave it at that. |
I think we all know you won’t bomb out. Semi’s at least for the hosts. 
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finbar, those BBC commentators were clearly not doing their job properly |
The TV guys were getting it right. Not sure who the world service boys would be to be honest.
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They should also have known Murphy. There were two Irish on the field, after all (one of them being canadian or something, though, I didn't get all the explanations). |
Murphy, an Irish born Canadian national, is apparently coming to Tigers over the summer. Not a foreigner you see – born in Ireland so a domestic English player? 
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Also Havak will be happy to hear that Mehrtens had terrible kicking game and is now in danger of being left out of the ABs. |
The lesson in humility will do him good.
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Wouldn't it be bloody fantastic if he turned up at Tigers? |
No it wouldn’t! 
No change of tune here – I’m happier with Pez – far braver in the tackle that Mr Mehrts.
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Oh, and Havak will be glad that Wasps rolled Bath 48-30 in the final of the Biro Cup. |
Not only that but Danny Grewcock (Bath skipper) red carded for punching Dallaglio – something of a win-win event for a Tigers fan.
Grecock’s suspension pretty much guarantees am all Tigers second row for the England tour to the SH.
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The lock selections are interesting - Giffen, Vickerman and Sharpe. A certain Brumbie lock is missing. |
Well he has simply never reached the level of his Sydney Lions performance again has he?
I was listening to a friend this weekend who was explaining why the Wallabies were running into trouble when a player like Sharpe is considered international. Any comment on that Finbar? I thought the lad had promise but I’ve not seen much of him to be honest. I felt my friend was being harsh – but his analysis of players is normally keener than mine.
I would imagine that Waugh could play blindside quite effectively. Smith has to stay openside against us to compete against Backy.
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That would create quite a conundrum for our bitter-swilling friend methinks. |
It wouldn’t, trust me. I do rather regret that Spencer turned us down three years ago though.
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Havak
So S12 is all over – and the English season, that started in August, has one game left for Tigers this weekend. I guess we play too much rugby!? |
It's ridiculous the amount of rugby you lot play. As I've said before.
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Wasn’t that amazing? It will stick with me for a long time that one. |
I'm quite sure Elton Flatley has it on a looped video. 
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The TV guys were getting it right. Not sure who the world service boys would be to be honest. |
Probably whomever does the Irish rugby for the BBC.
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Murphy, an Irish born Canadian national, is apparently coming to Tigers over the summer. Not a foreigner you see – born in Ireland so a domestic English player? |
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No it wouldn’t! |
I'm pretty sure Mehrtens will turn up somewhere in the NH. Unless Carlos puts in a couple of stinkers.
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Well he has simply never reached the level of his Sydney Lions performance again has he? |
That's the truth, unfortunately. He ended up coming off the bench as the S12 season progressed. Still, it was a competitive lock situation at the Brumbies with him, Vickerman and Giffen. I gather he will be looking elsewhere because of it next season. The bottom line is that he simply doesn't do enough often enough.
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I was listening to a friend this weekend who was explaining why the Wallabies were running into trouble when a player like Sharpe is considered international. Any comment on that Finbar? I thought the lad had promise but I’ve not seen much of him to be honest. I felt my friend was being harsh – but his analysis of players is normally keener than mine. |
Well, I don't think anyone would argue he's John Eales yet. He's still very young, he's really only had one season of international rugby. He's got tons of promise and really hasn't done a lot wrong. I'm not sure what your friend's problem with him is. Or what your friend expects. Or even how and where he's seen him. He's one of a number of young locks - along with Vickerman and Heenan (the Eales protégé who's going on the A tour to Japan) - who are going to be competing for the same spot. We'll see.
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I would imagine that Waugh could play blindside quite effectively. Smith has to stay openside against us to compete against Backy. |
It's a bit hard to know who blindside will be. If it's not Waugh, it has to be David Lyons or even possibly Nathan Sharpe. There was talk of trying him there. The problem with starting both Waugh and Smith is that it weakens the lineout. As well, ideally, the best way to use Waugh and Smith is for one to replace the other off the bench, exploiting the extraordinary energy levels.
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Havak
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Swing Low, Sweet Chariots.
Aug 1999
time: 05:27
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And how did young Manny Edmonds go for Perpignan? |
Simply put he kept them in the game. Very impressive tactical kicking in the second half – and we should be kind and put the first half down to the elements – it was a strong wind apparently.
Sad to see the ground not full though – clearly the French don’t travel unconditionally the way the Brits will.
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Well, indeed. Presumably they will all get game time at some point. |
I’d assume so. But with just the two games and both big ones maybe not. Some players may be present only as injury cover.
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As I said, he will learn a lot in a hell of a hurry. Hopefully in the manners department too. But he's very very talented. |
Talent allows a lot of other faults to be forgiven. Fingers crossed he fulfils that promise. It would be an added bonus if you found a new good-will ambassador for the team as well.
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It's ridiculous the amount of rugby you lot play. As I've said before. |
We are in full agreement here. But every time we think they are making progress on this front along comes a silly idea like this wildcard sequence we have had to play to try and ‘finesse’ in the H cup through the back door.
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I'm quite sure Elton Flatley has it on a looped video. |
And so he should have. That try, Mr Howlett’s, the ridiculous space and respect given Mr Lomu and the emergence of Ben Cohen as a world class finisher are my main memories from November.
I suspect Lewsey will get the full back berth next month – lets see if he is as badly exposed. He’s a more relaxed runner that’s for sure. Robbo’s explosive pace is back on the wing where it can work much better (if he relaxes).
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Probably whomever does the Irish rugby for the BBC. |
I know that with the TV they take the feed from RTE but use their own commentary teams. I have no idea who they co-opt for the radio – but it sounds like an outfit to avoid.
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I'm pretty sure Mehrtens will turn up somewhere in the NH. Unless Carlos puts in a couple of stinkers |
I don’t doubt it – but it would be overkill for us to sign another Fly now. Plus a lot of his English ‘friends’ in the forwards are at Welford Road.
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The bottom line is that he simply doesn't do enough often enough. |
Yes he never made the most of that huge springboard – then again can you build a career on one lineout steal? Also, and you may well say pot and kettle here, but his temperament is rather suspect at times.
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Or even how and where he's seen him. |
On Sky – the chap in question is a true rugby nut and clearly has a very understanding wife. I haven’t seen enough of Sharpe to hold a similar opinion. Still as I like to say the forthcoming test will measure the quality quite nicely when they square to lock jaw and Kay.
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The problem with starting both Waugh and Smith is that it weakens the lineout. As well, ideally, the best way to use Waugh and Smith is for one to replace the other off the bench, exploiting the extraordinary energy levels. |
That is sound reasoning to my mind. I’m a bit concerned about trying a lock at flanker though – regardless of who it is. It works more naturally the other way most of the time (e.g. Corry, Lions blindside, can play back five). The Hill-Back-Dallaglio combination is aging but it should eat a ‘green’ blindside alive really.
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Havak
Simply put he kept them in the game. Very impressive tactical kicking in the second half – and we should be kind and put the first half down to the elements – it was a strong wind apparently. |
Mmmm. Very talented player. I suspect making the move was the best thing he ever did. He was always under the microscope here and that can wear one down. Over there, unknown (relatively speaking), could have done wonders for him.
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Sad to see the ground not full though – clearly the French don’t travel unconditionally the way the Brits will. |
Well, we did offer to pass around le chapeau for Tamerlin, didn't we? Damn Gallic pride! If he'd gone, I'd've listened to more of the match on the World Service just to hear his dulcet screaming: "Tuez l'arbitre!".
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It would be an added bonus if you found a new good-will ambassador for the team as well. |
Yes, indeed. With Burkey and George in the autumns of their careers, we need another diplomat.
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And so he should have. That try, Mr Howlett’s, the ridiculous space and respect given Mr Lomu and the emergence of Ben Cohen as a world class finisher are my main memories from November. |
Funnily enough, my main memory is the best pack in the world having trouble with an AB second-string pack. Oh, and I should warn you that the first-string Kiwi locks and flankers are all in mighty fine shape and tip-top form.
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Yes he never made the most of that huge springboard – then again can you build a career on one lineout steal? Also, and you may well say pot and kettle here, but his temperament is rather suspect at times. |
He obviously took more than the ball from Lantern Jaw.
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On Sky – the chap in question is a true rugby nut and clearly has a very understanding wife. I haven’t seen enough of Sharpe to hold a similar opinion. Still as I like to say the forthcoming test will measure the quality quite nicely when they square to lock jaw and Kay. |
Well, yes, that's the only test, so to speak. If he was watching S12, I wouldn't place much store in it. Locks can often go missing in S12 through no fault of their own. The Reds also had a stinker of a season.
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That is sound reasoning to my mind. I’m a bit concerned about trying a lock at flanker though – regardless of who it is. It works more naturally the other way most of the time (e.g. Corry, Lions blindside, can play back five). The Hill-Back-Dallaglio combination is aging but it should eat a ‘green’ blindside alive really. |
What we need, simply, is another Owen Finegan. Apart from his work around the pack, he does a lot of fine lineout work too. He wasn't considered for the squad because he's only played two half games since last November. Apart from missing just about an entire Test backline through injury, I think the blindside situation is their biggest dilemma. There are a couple of good young blindsides in S12 but they're very inexperienced. I have a feeling they will go with David Lyons. Whomever it is, anyway, they're going to be "green". There's no alternative.
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Tamerlin
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Toulouse (South-western France)
Apr 2002
time: 06:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Havak
Firstly I must say congratulations to Tamerlin and his beloved Toulouse. A storming first half performance made them worthy winners – though the less said about that lack of direction in the second half the better. |
Thanks Havak, the Stade Toulousain was running after a second H Cup since 1996... 
You are right about the second half, the Stade Toulousain decided to manage their 19 points advantage rather than playing in order to score... and I really don't like at all when they are behaving like this. The Toulousain's defence and lineouts in the second half were great but all the attacks were clumsy... 
All in all this H-Cup final leaves me a bitter taste as if it had not been a real one. Two french clubs (we already met the USAP twice before this game) as a mere domestic championship game, a disappointing performance in the second half (at least not how I would have liked the Stade to play, with "Panache"), lack of supporters from both sides (to the exception of Trevor Brennan whose village of origin has made the trip)...
The trip was really too costly Havak though, Finbar, you would not have heard me yelling "à mort l'arbitre" ( ) or anything like it as I am never booing the referee (though many would have deserved it), the players or the kickers...
I am usually singing the good natured supporters' songs though I remember once or twice having sang one I don't consider as a good taste one which is:
"On vient,
On gagne,
Et on s'en va."
(We come,
We win,
And we go back).
The first one was fully deserved, I went to Agen to see a Challenge Yves Du Manoir (former french cup with a real different taste) half-final game against the Sporting Union Agenais which supporters had so a shocking behavior we thought we were in a second division S***** Stadium. The Stade won at the last minute by a narrow margin after a tensed game. This song was a way to tell the Agenais that they had really pissed us off...  :
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Havak
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Swing Low, Sweet Chariots.
Aug 1999
time: 05:27
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unknown (relatively speaking), could have done wonders for him. |
Given what has been achieved by a team where he is (arguably) the only ‘big’ name I would have to agree.
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Well, we did offer to pass around le chapeau for Tamerlin, didn't we? |
We offered – and promptly forgot to do so. Naughty of us.
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Yes, indeed. With Burkey and George in the autumns of their careers, we need another diplomat. |
I was thinking of an Eales or a Lynagh for the new generation as it happens (as I suspect you knew).
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Funnily enough, my main memory is the best pack in the world having trouble with an AB second-string pack |
Then you watched a different game. This ‘second string’ pack (and it was only missing the incumbent number eight and openside) whipped the ball out quicker than Austin could fling an insult in it’s efforts to avoid being steam rollered – and it still didn’t win them all their own ball.
It’s the first string backline that caused us huge problems – we never paid any attention to the Mitchell “we lost but we won development tour” nonsense – they left a handful of players at home and that’s all.
Did I bite deep enough?
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Oh, and I should warn you that the first-string Kiwi locks and flankers are all in mighty fine shape and tip-top form. |
Very good news. They will after all need to be. Playing an English pack at the end of a long season they are still in for the test of their lives. The old school back row axis is back (much as I would prefer Moody fit myself). All the boys need for motivation is a few newspaper articles from Mr Mehrtens and Mitchell’s “we lost - but we won” propaganda sequence.
Seriously – is McCaw fit and Jack also playing? I’ve been looking forward to seeing if these guys live up to the billing they get.
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He obviously took more than the ball from Lantern Jaw. |
You’ll no doubt laugh at this but there’s a huge difference. Jonno gets into trouble when people have a go at him or when he is defending team mates – it’s red mist all right but defensively provoked pretty much all of the time. Justin has a nasty tendency to go on the front foot with the biff – witness his attempt to kill Healey for the crime of being able to run past him in the mid field.
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Locks can often go missing in S12 through no fault of their own. The Reds also had a stinker of a season. |
The down side of a fast flowing game. I see you have some mobile front rows though. Like Mr Dunning – who seems to like to break his own team mates noses.
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I have a feeling they will go with David Lyons. Whomever it is, anyway, they're going to be "green". There's no alternative. |
I honestly have a feeling that puts you at a disadvantage. Could it finally be time for the Rose to down the Wallabies in their own back yard. Might be worth a wager even.
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Havak
Given what has been achieved by a team where he is (arguably) the only ‘big’ name |
But not for much longer. God Bless Les Grenouilles and their - cough - "salary cap". 
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We offered – and promptly forgot to do so. Naughty of us. |
Yeah well, I only ever thought we were teasing him. Get his hopes up, withdraw the offer.
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Did I bite deep enough? |
Well, it had been a while. Just testing your reflexes.
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Playing an English pack at the end of a long season |
Pre-emptive excuse noted.
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Seriously – is McCaw fit and Jack also playing? I’ve been looking forward to seeing if these guys live up to the billing they get. |
Yes, they're ready and waiting. Good grief, I'm starting to sound like a Kiwi. Still, that's how highly I rate them.
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Justin has a nasty tendency to go on the front foot with the biff – witness his attempt to kill Healey for the crime of being able to run past him in the mid field. |
Yes, but justifiable homicide - aka doing the species a very big favour - is a bit different.
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The down side of a fast flowing game. I see you have some mobile front rows though. Like Mr Dunning – who seems to like to break his own team mates noses. |
Children and alcohol, a dangerous combination.
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I honestly have a feeling that puts you at a disadvantage. Could it finally be time for the Rose to down the Wallabies in their own back yard. Might be worth a wager even. |
I wouldn't bet on us in a fit in the forthcoming Test. Not missing just about an entire first-choice backline, and at least one second-choice also unavailable. It might be a different thing in the WRC when most of them should be back, although it's said Stirling Mortlock won't even have a match under his belt before the WRC.
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Havak
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Swing Low, Sweet Chariots.
Aug 1999
time: 05:27
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Thanks Havak, the Stade Toulousain was running after a second H Cup since 1996... |
Welcome to the double winners club. Now all we need to do is qualify for the tournament to have a chance of grabbing your crown.
Sporting Union Agenais are the Gloucester of French rugby then? Followed by s***** fans?
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But not for much longer. God Bless Les Grenouilles and their - cough - "salary cap". |
On which note Frank Tournaire just joined them too. Have they found a pot of gold somewhere?
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Get his hopes up, withdraw the offer. |
Are we that cruel? (Rhetorical)
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Well, it had been a while. Just testing your reflexes. |
Intact and working thank you.
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Pre-emptive excuse noted. |
Actually I rather meant it more to put in context the inevitable praise they will get for winning 40% of the ball (wow!) whilst still only ten games or so into their season.
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Yes, they're ready and waiting. Good grief, I'm starting to sound like a Kiwi. Still, that's how highly I rate them. |
They must be good then – because the players they are facing (locks and flankers) are proven world class and didn’t cry off the autumn games for a nice rest.
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Yes, but justifiable homicide - aka doing the species a very big favour - is a bit different |
If Healey were the only player he had ever gone postal on that would be fair enough – but of course he isn’t.
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Children and alcohol, a dangerous combination. |
He is the guy you talked about who scored a try out wide several years ago and dreams of repeating it. He actually looks badly out of shape from the piccies I’ve seen – a real old fashioned heffer of a prop?
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I wouldn't bet on us in a fit in the forthcoming Test. Not missing just about an entire first-choice backline, and at least one second-choice also unavailable |
If you want to talk pre-emptive excuses this scripting is perfect for us being handed a whupping.
God imagine it – years and years of Aussies saying “we whupped you with a third string”. I feel quite ill even thinking about it. 
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Havak
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Swing Low, Sweet Chariots.
Aug 1999
time: 05:27
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quote:
if he went there for less than Leicester, how much would he have earned at Leicester? |
I’m not privy to the amounts – no one is outside of the loop. But it wouldn’t have been stellar (on the books at least). Maybe 120-150K with the consultancies added in. What would staying S-12 have got him (I did read a BBC report suggesting the S-12 average wage was around 45K. Must try to dig up the link)?
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I can't wait. Oh, and not a word after the event about playing on hard grounds in a different hemisphere? |
No of course, after all your mobs didn’t complain about the weather, the ref, the ground, time of year, colour of the sky or even the length of the damn grass now did they?
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You surely have to allow a certain amount of practice? |
Do we, or the authorities, apply the same leniency to lock jaw?
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He has ability but doesn't work hard enough to improve his game. |
You said it yourself – the primary duty of a prop is the engine room. Followed by the lineout and supporting at the breakdown. He should be out wide only in an emergency and preferably only when you are going forward at that.
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If so, you've had a very off day. |
Hell, on paper we should walk it. But you know how I feel about matches in your backyard. Playing 15 men is one thing – playing the whole nation is another.
Let me know when Channel 7 starts building up England as the villainous team that mugged your Mum, stole Bruce’s beer, ran off with your Sheila’s favourite jewelry and took the mickey out of your glorious flag. You know it will happen.
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Well, we went close to winning with an out-of-form, understrength outfit in November. The same team - no, in fact, a weaker team than that which struggled against the Pumas and lost to the Irish. |
I love that expression ‘went close to winning’. What a lovely way of saying ‘lost a commanding lead’ or even ‘exposed severe defensive frailties but then blew it'?
Actually that game taught us more than it did you I think – and we have of course grown since it, nailing the Slam and beating Ireland comprehensively at the same venue of your failure, and just four months later.
This tour is I think our best ever chance of turning you both over in consecutive games down there – but I’m not arrogant enough to assume it’s a certainty.
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Havak
Maybe 120-150K with the consultancies added in. What would staying S-12 have got him (I did read a BBC report suggesting the S-12 average wage was around 45K. Must try to dig up the link)? |
Are you talking pounds? If so, that's up to $OZ380,000, a lot more than he'd be getting for S12. It's hard to know the average S12 wage because the differential between top and bottom is huge, even before you add on the top players' extras like sponsorship, etc. I suppose the average would have to be somewhere around the figure you quote. And I'd imagine Herbert would have been on something like - in total - about $OZ175-200,000.
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No of course, after all your mobs didn?t complain about the weather, the ref, the ground, time of year, colour of the sky or even the length of the damn grass now did they? |
I didn't hear a peep. 
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Do we, or the authorities, apply the same leniency to lock jaw? |
Nor we - or they - should.
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Hell, on paper we should walk it. But you know how I feel about matches in your backyard. Playing 15 men is one thing ? playing the whole nation is another. |
Well, I have pointed out in the past that we did it twice to win two World Cups. But then you pointed out they were the two luckiest wins in World Cup history. So look on the bright side - maybe you'll get lucky.
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Let me know when Channel 7 starts building up England as the villainous team that mugged your Mum, stole Bruce?s beer, ran off with your Sheila?s favourite jewelry and took the mickey out of your glorious flag. You know it will happen. |
Channel 7 is actually looming as a problem in that regard. There have been huge upheavals at the networks here, with Kerry Packer - owner of the 9 Network - having sacked a lot of his senior people. Who have promptly gone to Channel 7. Unfortunately, the ex-MD of 9, now MD at 7, is a thick-ear sports nut who wants to "beef up" the coverage of the WRC. Lord knows exactly what he means, but I have my fears.
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I love that expression ?went close to winning?. What a lovely way of saying ?lost a commanding lead? or even ?exposed severe defensive frailties but then blew it'? |
All it means, obviously, is that a Wallaby team in halfway decent form with half the missing players would have beaten the best team in the world in its own backyard.
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This tour is I think our best ever chance of turning you both over in consecutive games down there ? but I?m not arrogant enough to assume it?s a certainty. |
I'm sensible and objective enough to put it this way - If you don't, there is something seriously wrong.
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Havak
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Swing Low, Sweet Chariots.
Aug 1999
time: 05:27
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I was talking pounds Finbar yes. It’s getting very difficult to know what players are on – in the early days the clubs were very open but now they play it very coy. I know our entire squad accepted a pay cut for next season because of the new cap but it doesn’t help knowing it because no one talks actual figures.
You probably know several clubs, not least Gloucester, are in trouble for flouting the caps by paying for players houses, cars, mistresses jewelry etc.
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I didn't hear a peep. |
Good lord – sometimes you feel like a total reflection of myself.
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Nor we - or they - should. |
His record is improving – only two yellows this year I believe.
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But then you pointed out they were the two luckiest wins in World Cup history. So look on the bright side - maybe you'll get lucky. |
Well I’m sure you know that was mainly to add spice to our exchanges?
It’s a little unfair of me perhaps – I will say that it helped the 91 side that England bizarrely changed their game plan after Campo’s criticism – the only effective mind-s**** he ever pulled off?
And I remain convinced that France never turned up in 99. Eales men won that tournament on defensive strength – which makes it even more ironic four years on that Jones et al are banging on about whether England can play expansive rugby?
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Lord knows exactly what he means, but I have my fears. |
It sounds worrying. I know I joke about it but it was a huge culture shock to me, used as I am to the desperately impartial BBC and scared to be bias Sky teams, to run into Channel 7. I was, as they say, Gob smacked the day after the Brisbane test when it didn’t even get a 5 second mention on the news summary. I’m not sure how helpful it is to the Aussie public that they have media that ignores bad news – even if it is only sport?
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All it means, obviously, is that a Wallaby team in halfway decent form with half the missing players would have beaten the best team in the world in its own backyard. |
You see again all that reads to me as is “the Wallabies lost”.
I think we do need to recognise that every team now plays beyond itself against us. Rather the down side of finally being treated seriously by the SH.
The greatest compliment we have received is the now constant tirade of anti-Anglo tirades from Kiwis on the BBC web site. This S12 Kiwi is better than that Englishman and so on. One chump last week even claimed Spencer is a class apart from Wilkinson. Put aside the fact I don’t buy that (Wilko’s defensive game is far better IMO) how realistic is it to think anyone is a class apart from that young man? Its just unfounded blinkered nonsense.
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I'm sensible and objective enough to put it this way - If you don't, there is something seriously wrong. |
Well you could argue that with the Wallabies – though I would again say only an idiot takes them lightly in their own backyard. But surely the ABs are favourites? All the SH fans on the various web sites are telling me that the lowest Kiwi S12 team (Chiefs?) would beat us and that the Maoris will put fifty on us. I hope that lack of respect bites them in the ass, I really do.
By the way it’s very clear someone is bank rolling Perpignan. Still there is huge pressure building on French clubs to conform to the salary caps everyone else use and I’m sure ERC ltd will make them comply in time.
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Havak
I was talking pounds Finbar yes. It’s getting very difficult to know what players are on – in the early days the clubs were very open but now they play it very coy. I know our entire squad accepted a pay cut for next season because of the new cap but it doesn’t help knowing it because no one talks actual figures. |
The salary figures get talked about fairly openly here. I must pay more attention.
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You probably know several clubs, not least Gloucester, are in trouble for flouting the caps by paying for players houses, cars, mistresses jewelry etc. |
Put a rule in place, someone will try to break - or at least bend - it. I'm not sure what the S12 situation is with a salary cap. I'm not even sure there is one, per se. I know there's a ban on the sort of extras you list. It was talked about when Lote Tuquiri was being wooed by all 3 S12 teams. Which isn't to say it doesn't go on. I'll look into the S12 salary cap situation and report back.
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Good lord – sometimes you feel like a total reflection of myself. |
We have a fair exchange going. I teach you things like use of the subjunctive tense, you teach me to step.
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His record is improving – only two yellows this year I believe. |
Jolly good. So more to come.
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Well I’m sure you know that was mainly to add spice to our exchanges? |
Memory is a blessed thing. Actually, I was going to save it till England won the WRC, but then realised it would be wasted on you in your drunken stupor.
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It’s a little unfair of me perhaps – I will say that it helped the 91 side that England bizarrely changed their game plan after Campo’s criticism – the only effective mind-s**** he ever pulled off? |
Oh well, if it makes you feel better to blame someone else for an idiotic England tactical switch. And what it says about England team discipline, not to mention the pliability of an England rugby player's mind is, well, fruit for the sideboard.
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And I remain convinced that France never turned up in 99. Eales men won that tournament on defensive strength – which makes it even more ironic four years on that Jones et al are banging on about whether England can play expansive rugby? |
And still they keep on coming. Must be a very quiet day in the cockpit of the nerve centre of Leicester's IT industry. France - and I'm sure Tamerlin will hate me for this - played out of their souliers in the semi and couldn't repeat the dose. I don't know that anyone - Tamerlin aside - sensibly expected them to. The big question of that year that remains to be answered satisfactorily pertains to the team the French beat in the semi.
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It sounds worrying. I know I joke about it but it was a huge culture shock to me, used as I am to the desperately impartial BBC and scared to be bias Sky teams, to run into Channel 7. |
The problem is you don't have access to strictly commercial television over there - by which I mean, a television equivalent to a relatively tabloid newspaper. If you did, you wouldn't be surprised.
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You see again all that reads to me as is “the Wallabies lost”. |
Oh well, I have nothing better to do till Mrs finbar gets home and we decide whether to eat out or eat in. Of course the Wallabies lost. Yes, England won. Which isn't the point. Given that a stronger Wallaby team struggled against the Pumas and lost to the Irish, England should have murded them. They didn't. Lies, damn lies and statistics again.
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Its just unfounded blinkered nonsense. |
I'm not sure why you read it. Well, I do know, but I'll let that one go through to the 'keeper.
Oh, and I checked out the Tigers' message board on the website. I'm yet actually to find a thread where I know what they're talking about.
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But surely the ABs are favourites? |
That's my view, as you know. In fact we have 50 Civ Gold riding on it.
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All the SH fans on the various web sites are telling me that the lowest Kiwi S12 team (Chiefs?) would beat us and that the Maoris will put fifty on us. I hope that lack of respect bites them in the ass, I really do. |
They're idiots. I'm not.
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By the way it’s very clear someone is bank rolling Perpignan. Still there is huge pressure building on French clubs to conform to the salary caps everyone else use and I’m sure ERC ltd will make them comply in time. |
I'm damn sure some of the other French clubs are going to demand something be done about Perpignan. Even if those figures for the new signings are only reasonably accurate, they're looking at close to $OZ 1 million. I can't imagine Toulouse wearing it for too much longer.
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Havak
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Swing Low, Sweet Chariots.
Aug 1999
time: 05:27
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We have a fair exchange going. I teach you things like use of the subjunctive tense, you teach me to step. |
Yes, but which of those is the easier task?
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Jolly good. So more to come. |
A Civ gold wager on him receiving one in RWC perhaps?
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then realised it would be wasted on you in your drunken stupor. |
If, and it’s a huge ‘if’, they do win it I might book a flight to Australia at the earliest convenience and hit the sports bars for a week solid.
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And what it says about England team discipline, not to mention the pliability of an England rugby player's mind is, well, fruit for the sideboard. |
And 12 years out of date, back in the height of the ‘stay amateur’ nonsense here. For a current evaluation of our players mental strength try looking back again at that game last November.
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Must be a very quiet day in the cockpit of the nerve centre of Leicester's IT industry. |
Just about to go into a meeting with a supplier that will last the rest of the day as it happens.
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France - and I'm sure Tamerlin will hate me for this - played out of their souliers in the semi and couldn't repeat the dose |
Or perhaps just the wrong year for them? They won Grand Slams in the 97 and 98 seasons but got mauled by us in 99 IIRC. Those Slam teams I would have expected to beat the Wallaby contemporaries to be honest – 97 and 98 not great years for the Aussies?
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The problem is you don't have access to strictly commercial television over there - by which I mean, a television equivalent to a relatively tabloid newspaper |
Sky comes close in many ways – but it’s Union coverage has to be aimed at the right target audience so has to maintain a certain measured approach.
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Given that a stronger Wallaby team struggled against the Pumas and lost to the Irish, England should have murded them. They didn't. Lies, damn lies and statistics again. |
I know what your point was. Mine was that the game was viewed much more positively here. Only a few years ago an England side that made such shocking tactical errors and went that far behind would have folded – this one didn’t. It was a great thing to see if very very nerve racking at the time.
To further add to your angst guess which players Woodward praised for turning it around?
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Oh, and I checked out the Tigers' message board on the website. I'm yet actually to find a thread where I know what they're talking about. |
That’s not too unusual. Why not start one – “which SH players would we like to sign”?
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That's my view, as you know. In fact we have 50 Civ Gold riding on it. |
Damn, you remembered.
I was actually talking about the test in June. I see the ABs as just a fallable in Australia as we could be, and I think the S12 may have made them badly over confident?
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They're idiots. I'm not. |
Not something I would ever accuse you of.
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I can't imagine Toulouse wearing it for too much longer. |
They are called “The Aristocrats” for a reason. They’ll have something to say all right.
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Havak
Yes, but which of those is the easier task? |
Well, yes, I'm stepping rather well, I think.
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A Civ gold wager on him receiving one in RWC perhaps? |
Between now and the end of the RWC and you're on.
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If, and it’s a huge ‘if’, they do win it I might book a flight to Australia at the earliest convenience and hit the sports bars for a week solid. |
I'll sketch a retired tighthead with a pork pie addiction and a high forehead and post it at Customs!
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Just about to go into a meeting with a supplier that will last the rest of the day as it happens. |
A supplier? Supplying to an IT crowd? Supplying what? I or T?
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Or perhaps just the wrong year for them? They won Grand Slams in the 97 and 98 seasons but got mauled by us in 99 IIRC. Those Slam teams I would have expected to beat the Wallaby contemporaries to be honest – 97 and 98 not great years for the Aussies? |
As I recall, we were talking about the WRC final, not other French teams in other years. If only you spent as much time working on the subjunctive tense as you do your step!
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Sky comes close in many ways – but it’s Union coverage has to be aimed at the right target audience so has to maintain a certain measured approach. |
Yes, and that's the difference. A truly commercial network doesn't. Particularly if the product - in this country, in this case, rugby - isn't a massive priority. While Channel 7 will pump up the WRC, they neglected S12 appallingly. Replays were pushed later and later into the night, until they eventually scrapped them altogether.
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I know what your point was. Mine was that the game was viewed much more positively here. Only a few years ago an England side that made such shocking tactical errors and went that far behind would have folded – this one didn’t. It was a great thing to see if very very nerve racking at the time. |
Mmmmm. Some would wonder why they got into the position in the first place.
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To further add to your angst guess which players Woodward praised for turning it around? |
No thanks. I suspect I know. I had a pleasant dinner, I'd rather keep it down.
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That’s not too unusual. Why not start one – “which SH players would we like to sign”? |
Good thought. I might give it a burl.
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I was actually talking about the test in June. I see the ABs as just a fallable in Australia as we could be, and I think the S12 may have made them badly over confident? |
I'm not sure what to make of the June Tests. England aren't going to fielding full-strength sides, we're certainly not. I'm not sure about the ABs. I really don't know what the matches will prove in terms of the WRC.
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They are called “The Aristocrats” for a reason. They’ll have something to say all right. |
I expect it explains Tamerlin's absence. Penning a tome on the matter to the appropriate to les autorités.
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27-05-2003 09:13
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