01-06-2003 05:57									#31
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quote: Often, the same conservatives who complain that homosexuals constantly seem to fail to embrace family values, advocate for laws that prevent or discourage homosexuals from embracing such family values.

You DO understand what 'family values' means, don't you? Any homosexual relationship would go against what religious conservatives would consider 'family values'. The only way for a conservative to say that a homosexual has embraced family values is if he went straight.

	01-06-2003 06:00									#32
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family values = pc-ness

as in "hey! this is a family site!!"

	01-06-2003 06:28									#33
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I think gay pride movement is just as silly as a long penis power movement.

I'm interested in your sexual orientation as much as your anatomic features.

	01-06-2003 13:11									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Often, the same conservatives who complain that homosexuals constantly seem to fail to embrace family values, advocate for laws that prevent or discourage homosexuals from embracing such family values. You DO understand what 'family values' means, don't you? Any homosexual relationship would go against what religious conservatives would consider 'family values'. The only way for a conservative to say that a homosexual has embraced family values is if he went straight.

But that is the narrow, bigoted perception of family values because it excludes a minority group of people in which some of them want to establish their own stable families -- as homosexual couples.

	02-06-2003 03:29									#35
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Here's a tip.
Next time you want to send a message to gays only, please indicate that in the thread title.
Save the rest of the world from opening the thread.

	02-06-2003 06:24									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I honestly don't know who there are more of. Of the people I hang out with, the vast majority of them are monogamous. On the other hand, the club scene is likely much different.

This is my sense of it was well. Most of the gay men I know are monogomous, but they are also late 30s-40s, so age may play a role. My best friend lives in Hollywood (he writes) and his neighbors are a couple of guys who met in the Navy in WW2. Talk about monogomy!

I know a lot more lesbians for some reason, and almost all of them claim to be monogomous, but about half of them cheat like there's no tomorrow. I find it very interesting that I tend to know a lot more about the sex lives of my gay and lesbian friends than my straight friends. Believe me, I don't pry, people just like to talk to me. I'm not sure why there is a disparity.

	02-06-2003 09:32									#37
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Anyway, back to the thread's original topic . . . . . .

	02-06-2003 09:33									#38
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quote: But that is the narrow, bigoted perception of family values because it excludes a minority group of people in which some of them want to establish their own stable families -- as homosexual couples.

Because the idea of 'family values' is an inclusive, open one? Come on!

	02-06-2003 09:38									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: But that is the narrow, bigoted perception of family values because it excludes a minority group of people in which some of them want to establish their own stable families -- as homosexual couples. Because the idea of 'family values' is an inclusive, open one? Come on!

Why are you so absolutely certain that family values cannot be inclusive -- at least, family values that are not twisted by right wing propaganda?

And does right wing perception of family values means that families should be destroyed by parents who disown their gay or lesbian child? Talk about their perception of family values.

The desire to create and establish a stable, secure family is a universal one -- it is not exclusive. However, right wing propagandists want to deny that a number of homosexuals have this same, universal desire.

	02-06-2003 09:40									#40
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quote: And does right wing perception of family values means that families should be destroyed by parents who disown their gay or lesbian child?

Well not all right wingers are like that. I am not like that.

Anyways.. my parents did a good job accepting me when I told them about my sexuality. They support me strongly no matter what.. and that is a definition of strong family values. Supporting their children, no matter their sexual orientation, is truly strong family values.

	02-06-2003 09:42									#41
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quote: Why are you so absolutely certain that family values cannot be inclusive -- at least, family values that are not twisted by right wing propaganda?

Because it can't! It was created by religious right folk in order to demonize single parents and homosexuals! There is no way the term cannot be inclusive. Not a chance in Hell!

quote: And does right wing perception of family values means that families should be destroyed by parents who disown their gay or lesbian child? Talk about their perception of family values.

That IS family values! That's the whole point! One man, One woman, kids... that's it! You can't make it inclusive, because that is what it means!

	02-06-2003 09:42									#42
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Fez, when I use the term right wing, I usually use it to refer to the extreme right -- not mainstream conservatives.

	02-06-2003 09:44									#43
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Fez, when I use the term right wing, I usually use it to refer to the extreme right -- not mainstream conservatives.

Or perhaps a better term to use is religious right nutcases. The name that makes me cringe whenever I hear it has to be Phelps..

	02-06-2003 09:45									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Why are you so absolutely certain that family values cannot be inclusive -- at least, family values that are not twisted by right wing propaganda? Because it can't! It was created by religious right folk in order to demonize single parents and homosexuals! There is no way the term cannot be inclusive. Not a chance in Hell! quote: And does right wing perception of family values means that families should be destroyed by parents who disown their gay or lesbian child? Talk about their perception of family values. That IS family values! That's the whole point! One man, One woman, kids... that's it! You can't make it inclusive, because that is what it means!

That is a socially constructed perception of family values that denies social recognition of homosexuals' humanity. Seeking to create a family is a universal desire -- no matter what form that family takes.

	02-06-2003 11:15									#45
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Mr. Fun,

I think you're missing Imran's point. You really have to understand fully that it's a made-up, bogus word for repression of other people. That's why you ought to abolish the use of the term completely, because it's indirectly discriminatory. Even if it technically means something else in your ears. Naturally, there are other ways of expressing love for your family or whoever than through that exact term.

I also disagree about your perception of family as a "universal desire". Some people actually prefer going without.

	02-06-2003 17:48									#46
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Homosexuals choose to go without a family, don't they?

	02-06-2003 18:03									#47
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I'd say society chooses for 'em, through constant barriers to everything from marriage to adoption.

I'm straight myself, but have experienced situations where I was with gay friends who were assaulted and threatened, and had to intervene in one instance.

I can understand and appreciate something like Gay Pride, though im cynical to think it will have any profound impact on peoples perceptions of homosexuality.

	02-06-2003 18:20									#48
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Why should gay people adopt? It would be unfair on the child.

	02-06-2003 19:39									#49
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How would it be unfair for the child?

	02-06-2003 19:42									#50
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i) Being brought up into a Christian-based society that looks upon his adopters' behaviour as a sin

ii) The teasing that will ensue, damaging his self-esteem and -confidence

iii) Only having one sex of parent around; children deserve a male and a female in the home

	02-06-2003 19:53									#51
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Loose wrists are excellent for mixing baby food, though.

	02-06-2003 19:55									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's i) Being brought up into a Christian-based society that looks upon his adopters' behaviour as a sin

Get real.

quote: ii) The teasing that will ensue, damaging his self-esteem and -confidence

Well then it is best to teach the child to ignore the teasing.

quote: iii) Only having one sex of parent around; children deserve a male and a female in the home

Do they?

	02-06-2003 19:59									#53
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"Get real"

Says the guy who one day wanted to go "into computers", then the next wanted to manage an oil conglomerate. (I've kept all the quotes ).

"Well then it is best to teach the child to ignore the teasing."

How many adults do you think still bear scars from bullying received at school, bullying that would have been nowhere near the level that orphans taken in by homosexuals will experience?

"Do they?"

Witness the either feminised or excessively violent bunch of males we have at the moment as a result of single-mother upbringing.

	02-06-2003 20:04									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Says the guy who one day wanted to go "into computers", then the next wanted to manage an oil conglomerate. (I've kept all the quotes ).

I never said either you stupid fool.

quote: How many adults do you think still bear scars from bullying received at school, bullying that would have been nowhere near the level that orphans taken in by homosexuals will experience?

Bullying does not limit itself to homosexuals. So should kids who had bullying done to them, not be abled to raise children later in their life? You really are pathetic.

quote: Witness the either feminised or excessively violent bunch of males we have at the moment as a result of single-mother upbringing.

Uh huh.. you have proof for that?

	02-06-2003 20:07									#55
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quote: Bullying does not limit itself to homosexuals. So should kids who had bullying done to them, not be abled to raise children later in their life? You really are pathetic.

Lasting emotional scars in parents do not lead to teasing of the child in school.

quote: Uh huh.. you have proof for that?

http://www.fathermag.com/news/2776-UCSB.shtml

	02-06-2003 20:09									#56
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Bod's stop your trolling.

	02-06-2003 20:09									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Lasting emotional scars in parents do not lead to teasing of the child in school.

Point taken.

quote: http://www.fathermag.com/news/2776-UCSB.shtml

Right, what is the relevance of this article to the subject?

	02-06-2003 20:13									#58
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quote: Right, what is the relevance of this article to the subject?

I said, "Witness the ... excessively violent bunch of males we have at the moment as a result of single-mother upbringing."

You said, "Uh huh.. you have proof for that?"

I gave you the link.

	02-06-2003 20:14									#59
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The Problem with Gays adopting is that it could influence the sexuality of the child.

	02-06-2003 20:15									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Rothy The Problem with Gays adopting is that it could influence the sexuality of the child.

Does it really?