02-06-2003 22:50									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Monk 1) If your sexual preferences can't be changed and we're born the way we are, how do you explain the instances where sexual preferences have indeed changed?

Sexual "preferences"? How about sexual orientation. Sorry no, sexual orientation cannot change and there are no true instances of that ever occurring.

quote: 2) If Mr. Fun had lived his entire life with women and only women, would he still be gay in the sense that he wouldn't find women attractive? And in the same way, wouldn't I have been with a man?

Mr Fun can answer that one.

quote: 3) What is the difference between my sexual preferences and all other sets of preferences that change over time?

Sexual preferences? You mean sexual orientation. Being gay is like being striaght. There are no differences there.

	02-06-2003 22:53									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Monk OK, sorry if I've been unclear. 1) If your sexual preferences can't be changed and we're born the way we are, how do you explain the instances where sexual preferences have indeed changed?

I used to be in favor of 100% genetic-factor for sexual orientation development. While I cannot be absolutely certain how sexual orientation develops, I do not believe that sexual orientation is a choice -- images of Pamela Anderson, Jennifer Lopez and other hot babes have never aroused me in my entire post-puberty life.

I believe that since sexual orientation is not a choice, it cannot be truly changed. Homosexuals who have claimed that they have "converted" to becoming straight will always be gay in my opinion. They seem to have submitted to the high-pressure from homophobic family members to take psuedo-therapy treatment to "cure" them of homosexuality. I'm not sure about the statistics exactly, but isn't there a high level of failure cases where "converted" gays have reverted back to living as gay men or lesbians?

quote: Originally posted by Monk 2) If Mr. Fun had lived his entire life with women and only women, would he still be gay in the sense that he wouldn't find women attractive? And in the same way, wouldn't I have been with a man?

Yes -- I would still be gay. Women do not sexually arouse me even though I can recognize attractive women from those who are not attractive. And same in your case -- men never sexually arouse you, right? As for the extreme situations where so-called straight men engage in sex with other men such as on polar expeditions or in prisons -- I believe that these situations were merely extreme enough for closeted macho men to finally cave into behaving as who they really are -- gays.

quote: Originally posted by Monk 3) What is the difference between my sexual preferences and all other sets of preferences that change over time?

I find it insulting when someone puts sexual orientation on the same caliber as something frivuluous as food choices, or music preferences -- it doesn't matter if you intended it as an insult or not -- that is how I feel about such statements.

To say that being gay is a fad is akin, in my opinion, to ask a faithful Jew or Catholic "So what is your religuous faith of the week?"

	03-06-2003 00:45									#93
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quote: Heterosexuals cannot change their sexual orientation no more than homosexuals can change their sexual orientation.

Mr. Fun, lacking a definition of sexual orientation, we are forced to use the terminology of sexual preference.

Secondly, do we know how 'sexual orientation' develops? Monk asserts we don't and you say we don't know. Therefore, Bodds is perfectly justified, not to take the risk so to speak.

	03-06-2003 01:51									#94
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Well obiwan, you can be assured of one thing. It is not a preference. Well at least not for me. I didn't choose to be this way.

Boddington is wrong as usual.

	03-06-2003 02:09									#95
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Thanks Obiwan; I'd rather not take the risk that another child be unheavenly corrupted.

	03-06-2003 02:16									#96
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Corrupted? Being gay is not being corrupted. It is like this.. you are either gay, or you are not. You are either straight or you are not. Some are bisexual. But you cannot turn gay if you are straight, and you cannot turn straight if you are gay. That is just how it works.

	03-06-2003 02:17									#97
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There are documented cases of people doing so. You know that.

	03-06-2003 02:19									#98
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No there isn't.

Edit: And don't even think about quoting the organization NARTH or one of those radical fundamentalist organization either. They are always wrong.

	03-06-2003 02:19									#99
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Bod's, there are millions of kids that are abused by their straight parents. Your concern for "child protection" in terms of gay parents is grossly hypocritical.

	03-06-2003 02:21									#100
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Homosexuals commit more sex crimes than heterosexuals, that is undisputed.

	03-06-2003 02:25									#101
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quote: Homosexuals commit more sex crimes than heterosexuals, that is undisputed.

Again that isn't true either. It is a proven fact that most of the sex crimes involving rape lets say, are committed by straight men against female women.

So please try again boddy.

And I would be more suspectible to commit a sex crime? What kind of drugs are you on?

	03-06-2003 02:28									#102
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Most paedophiliac attacks are against males.

	03-06-2003 02:29									#103
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quote: No there isn't.

Is too...

I love it when ppl through out FACTS without giving any backing to them... It is even funnier when ppl respond in the same fasion.
---
More ppl find women sexually attractive than do ppl who find men sexually attractive.

So being gay must be a choice.
---

See how that works? I can prove anything, if it doesn't have to make sense or be backed up by anything.

	03-06-2003 02:32									#104
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Shut up, Japher. Your reasoning is not applicable here... I cannot change because I have no choice.

You cannot prove anything with your attacks. You are just one more of those folks who wants to cut equal rights for others.

quote: Most paedophiliac attacks are against males.

Prove it.

	03-06-2003 02:36									#105
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quote: You are just one more of those folks who wants to cut equal rights for others.

At least that IS true.

I am sorry Fez. I wasn't trying to attack anyone for their sexuality, in fact I could care less if someone was gay or not, and I could care less why they are that way... All I was doing was pointing out that this argument seems as though it was being held on an elementry school playground.

	03-06-2003 02:37									#106
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Fez, prove that paedophiles commit more attacks against females then.

Or just fuck off.

	03-06-2003 02:37									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Japher At least that IS true. I am sorry Fez. I wasn't trying to attack anyone for their sexuality, in fact I could care less if someone was gay or not, and I could care less why they are that way... All I was doing was pointing out that this argument seems as though it was being held on an elementry school playground.

Well as you see.. I changed my response to Boddy to: Prove it.

I want him to actually prove something. Not throw random statements out there that mean nothing.

	03-06-2003 02:39									#108
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"I want him to actually prove something. Not throw random statements out there that mean nothing."

Not like you do, eh Fez.

	03-06-2003 02:40									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Fez, prove that paedophiles commit more attacks against females then. Or just fuck off.

I never said that.

I am saying prove your statement for once.

	03-06-2003 02:47									#110
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more sickos commit sex crimes than do non-sickos... I think we can agree on that.

I know my reasoning is not applicable because I am merely a racist bigot in all your eyes, but

Fez: I have a friend who is gay, and before I met him he was married for over 5 years... to a girl! Are you saying that he never really was straight and that he was just deluding himself?

I never knew him before so I can't say. Yet is not possible that all people are asexual and that everyone can be attracted to both sexes? Could it not be possible that, since we can be attracted to both sexes, that some outside factor ultimately determines are taste in sex? Pretty much in the same way as our taste in foods, clothing, movies, games, etc. are governed? I think that all sexuality is an aquired taste and that it has nothing to do with 'nature' but with the humane gift of choice. What governs that choice, however, is not always left up to the chooser.

Heck, in the ancient Roman times almost all those guys were bisexual...

	03-06-2003 02:57									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Fez: I have a friend who is gay, and before I met him he was married for over 5 years... to a girl! Are you saying that he never really was straight and that he was just deluding himself?

Or bisexual.

quote: Could it not be possible that, since we can be attracted to both sexes, that some outside factor ultimately determines are taste in sex?

No we are either straight, gay or bi. Nothing changes that.

quote: Pretty much in the same way as our taste in foods, clothing, movies, games, etc. are governed?

Absolutely not. I cannot change my sexual orientation. It is just the way I am. It is not like music or movie tastes.

quote: I think that all sexuality is an aquired taste and that it has nothing to do with 'nature' but with the humane gift of choice.

I think differently then you.

quote: What governs that choice, however, is not always left up to the chooser.

Absolutely not. Homosexuality is not a choice. I did not choice to be this way. To be honest, if I could I wouldn't be gay. It is because of the harassment that can occur from it.

	03-06-2003 03:02									#112
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quote: I think differently then you

Fair enough

	03-06-2003 03:08									#113
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I am intolerant of intolerant people.

	03-06-2003 03:53									#114
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This thread sucks.

	03-06-2003 04:33									#115
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Ditto.

	03-06-2003 04:59									#116
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This thread does seem to have gone way off Topic, MrFun seemed to post an Interesting post about the Genetic vs Environment debate but nobody seems Interesting in debating that.

The Thread sucks because Fez replies to all arguments with 'prove it' instead of putting up a decent counter argument.

	03-06-2003 05:12									#117
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Rothy, this thread sucks because you seem to think Boddington has a point. He never has a point.

	03-06-2003 05:25									#118
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Hang on, Thought Bods was the one who agreed I had a point?? where did I say he had a point? and what was it?

	03-06-2003 05:39									#119
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Fez, to be honest, all you have to go on is anecdotal evidence, which really doesn't mean much in a debate.

Sexuality, and specifically homosexuality, really hasn't been studied in enough detail for us to know the exact causes.

Most other things human, however, are caused by a combination of three things. There are genetic factors. Certain genes increase the chance of a person becoming alcoholic. There are environmental factors. If a parent gives a kid a bottle of whiskey everyday, he'll probably like it. And there are conditional things. Some really bad **** happens to a person, so they drink to ease the pain.

We don't know what causes homosexuality yet. We really don't. There isn't any hard scientific evidence. So why couldn't it be a human trait that is influenced by a number of factors?

In your case, Fez, maybe it won't change. But we don't really know what will happen with other people.

	03-06-2003 05:41									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Rothy, this thread sucks because you seem to think Boddington has a point. He never has a point.

quote: Originally posted by Fez quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Lasting emotional scars in parents do not lead to teasing of the child in school. Point taken.