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Japher
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Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:28
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quote:
Also the other reason I evaded your questions is because you equated being gay as being some kind genetic error. I really don't think so. |
Exactly what I think. I don't even think it is genetic. I don't think it is even a mental defect (which may becaused by chemical imbalances, child abuse, etc.).
Since on none of those things I equate it to a choice. Not a choice like am I going to wear the red pants or the green pants. It is more of a life style choice that is made when the person reaches sexual maturity and is determined by a myraid of things (just not genetic). I equate it along the lines of a career choice; while some kids are "gifted" to be athletes, or doctors, or computer geeks. It is, as Fez says, something that can't be explained. Why are you good at math? You don't know! Yet, you like it, so you do it, and you get better. Why do like football, chess, painting, scuplting, playing music, etc.? Many people even like things they suck at, and continue to do it even though they suck at it, or aren't built for it, or weren't encouraged to do so.
For example; There are many ppl out there who love to write, but absolutly suck at it. Take a look on the web, and you will find them; just search "fan fiction"
I think the point that Fez et. al. is trying to make, and is something that I am trying to understand, is that homosexuality is not a choice, it just is. In the same way that you may have a talent or a skill and can't explain why you are more inclined at said talent/skill... It just is.
Maybe my friend who became gay did not realize that skill/talent until a later age, but once he found it decided to run with it. Kind of like with Wagner and his late start in writting operas.
Sorry to equate it such things (if it offends anyone) but I am trying to understand and this makes sense to me.
quote:
If a straight person goes gay, it is because he really was always gay and was repressing it.
If a gay person goes straight, it is because society has forced him to. |
The thing is that ppl can choose to not follow who they are, or what they are talented at, but they can't always choose to follow what/who they are. I.e. Galileo.
I think in most cases a person who turns gay was oppressing their nature, if they were even aware of it. Maybe due to society, maybe due to their upbring... who knows. Yet, I think the same thing may be true if a gay person goes straight... I have a family member who is getting married to someone of the opposite who when they met was gay. Why? I don't know. Maybe that person is bi. Yet, many things can make us choose our lifestyles and if we wish to acknowledge certian aspects of our being. I believe that many things can over come ones own nature, that is what willpower is.
Thus, in the end it is still all a choice. To be who you are, or to be someone else.
Let me point out that Roman times most men had a wife (a woman) and a lover (generally a man). It wasn't taboo or frowned upon, it was just the way things were.
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Monk
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I don't think we're in Brønshøj anymore
Jan 1970
time: 06:28
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Okay, I'll agree to withdraw the "genetic error" part. I didn't mean to start a terminological debate. We can call it a coincidence or something similar if you guys prefer that.
EDIT: (Also note that I'm advocating the environmental side of this debate. This means my stand is actually that genes don't play a major role on this, so I would contradict myself heavily if I said homosexuals had a genetic error.)
I realize Lorizael was right on more than one account. So I'll stop rephrasing my questions to you, Fez, unless you should suddenly reply to the last paragraph of posting 03-06-2003 17:59 with something more substantial than a mere "You just don't make sense".
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Lorizael
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The Cult Wins
Sep 2001
time: 00:28
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quote:
Originally posted by obiwan18
2. The Bible is very clear that homosexuality is one of many types of sexual sin, no greater or lesser than say adultery. |
Which is why I never understood why people like Phelps only go after homosexuality. If you're gonna call something a sin, at least treat it equal to other sins.
Fez, you were angry at Monk for accidentally saying something offensive. Now, Obiwan simply states his beliefs and you call him a religious nutcase. Talk about arrogance. He believes what he believes because of a religious text. Where do your beliefs come from? Both may be irrational or illogical, yet yours are okay because they're yours, and his make him a religious nutcase because you've got something against Christianity. Talk about hypocrisy.
And I've got a question for you. Two questions, actually. Since you've stated more than once that your opinion will not change, why are you still in this thread? You can't possibly hope to actually convince people, because all you offer are opinions.
My other question, on what haven't you closed your mind? Is there anything in your life, anyone of your beliefs that you would actually consider changing?
I shouldn't be picking on you, Fez. I mean, I'm an atheist and a confused individual when it comes to sexuality, so I should be on your side, but your horrible attitude towards all of this really ticks me off. Your mind is closed at eighteen. What the hell are you gonna do with the seventy or eighty years of life you've got left to you?
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Japher
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Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:28
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Mr Fun, I will answer you tomorrow, when I am sober enough to give you a meaningful response. Just don't get this thread close. I mean, Fez is actually doing a pretty good job at arguing without flaming (no pun intended).
Also, I am sorry that this turned into something that you didn't want it to. I didn't threadjack it. Also, I don't support Gay (or anything else) Pride day... I see it as we are better than you so we have a parade day... That is just me. Where is the straight, white, middle class, white collar, conserative day... Heck, if anyone needs a day it is us... We are the dieing breed
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MrFun
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of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Japher
Mr Fun, I will answer you tomorrow, when I am sober enough to give you a meaningful response. Just don't get this thread close. I mean, Fez is actually doing a pretty good job at arguing without flaming (no pun intended).
Also, I am sorry that this turned into something that you didn't want it to. I didn't threadjack it. Also, I don't support Gay (or anything else) Pride day... I see it as we are better than you so we have a parade day... That is just me. Where is the straight, white, middle class, white collar, conserative day... Heck, if anyone needs a day it is us... We are the dieing breed |
Fez seems to switch between one sexual orientation and the next month by month, if not week by week. Don't take him seriously in threads like this.
I see Gay Pride as being sick and tired of being told we need to be ashamed of ourselves for who we are and to protest injustice and inequality.
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Monk
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I don't think we're in Brønshøj anymore
Jan 1970
time: 06:28
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Mr. Fun, yes, I can't rule out some genetic influence, but I think I'm a straight man primarily because of my environment. I think if I had grown up in another environment, I would have had another identity and I regard sexuality as a part of one's identity; I think you do as well.
Now, why don't you answer the questions that Fez couldn't instead of running away from them and closing the thread? They've been there for an awfully long time now.
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Monk
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I don't think we're in Brønshøj anymore
Jan 1970
time: 06:28
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Fez,
Show me where exactly you answered the questions from 03-06-2003 13:04 , because I must have missed it. Either that, or acknowledge all you've done is telling me and others your opinion without backup.
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03-06-2003 23:19
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