02-06-2003 02:40									#1
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...are a stupid topic, so this thread is about Lenin.

I just read his theory of imperialism (highest form of capitalism, "dying" capitalism etc, etc.) - and I think it was a waste of time. Not only there is still no proletarian world revolution ( ), I wonder why such a poorly written thing full of contradictions could be become so influential that it was still seem as basic theory in the former Soviet Union and the other Eastern block countries. No wonder that system broke down.

So when can we now expect the revolution?

	02-06-2003 02:42									#2
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Seig Geduld!!!

Commies take their time on these things!!!

	02-06-2003 02:47									#3
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro ...are a stupid topic, so this thread is about Lenin. I just read his theory of imperialism (highest form of capitalism, "dying" capitalism etc, etc.) - and I think it was a waste of time. Not only there is still no proletarian world revolution ( ), I wonder why such a poorly written thing full of contradictions could be become so influential that it was still seem as basic theory in the former Soviet Union and the other Eastern block countries. No wonder that system broke down.

There is in Russia.

quote: Originally posted by BeBro So when can we now expect the revolution?

In the West? When the economy collapses, and it will.

	02-06-2003 02:49									#4
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When's the economy going to collapse?

	02-06-2003 02:50									#5
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The German economy isnīt in the best condition now....

	02-06-2003 02:50									#6
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Well, I figure it'll come when the South Rises Again!!!

	02-06-2003 02:51									#7
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Lenin and Mao in one thread!

	02-06-2003 02:52									#8
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quote: So when can we now expect the revolution?

About the same time as the Rapture. In other words, aaaannnnyyyy miiiinnuuuuteee nooooow.

That lets me segue into an old Finnish joke from before the fall of SU:

"What's the same about communists and Christians?"
"They both claim life's better beyond the border, but aren't eager to experience it firsthand"

	02-06-2003 02:52									#9
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We're just waiting for Bush to run the economy into the ground for us. The right is so much better at discrediting its own policies than we are.

	02-06-2003 02:53									#10
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communism has always been born in nations in an economic crisis. give it time.

hopefully, one day, socialism will evolve in a thriving area.

	02-06-2003 02:54									#11
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*Waits for the right to step in*

	02-06-2003 02:55									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Victor Galis We're just waiting for Bush to run the economy into the ground for us. The right is so much better at discrediting its own policies than we are.

Oh please... give me a break.

And you socialists and communists are dreaming. Keep your little revolutions out of my way, and keep it in developing countries. Like I care.

	02-06-2003 02:55									#13
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What I can't understand about his theories (and those of other Marxists) is how exactly did he expect the leadership of the revolution (AKA the dictatorship of the proletariat) to simply fade away and open the way to "true" communism and equality....or did he even consider that at all?

Oh and....please wake me up when the revolution knocks at my door.

	02-06-2003 02:56									#14
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Communism is a failure every single place it has been tried

	02-06-2003 03:01									#15
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The revolution cannot result only of economic events, it needs people willing strongly to destroy and rebuilt. And unfortunatly when you ask people about whom you believe they could benefit from the revolution, if they are ready to do it, they balk.

People are quite good at assessing what they would loose, which is a good test that they recognize that the society, as bad as they claim it to be all day long, bring them a lot that they never talk about.

As it was said on this forum, how long would you survive, naked, in the jungle?

	02-06-2003 03:09									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Communism is a failure every single place it has been tried

where has it been tried?

lets check out Russia first.

first off, economic sanctions by the west. that never helps.

second, look at russia's history. when has it EVER had a strong economy? russia is a barren piece of crap. look how well capitialism is thriving there now , and this is WITH economic aid from the west.

don't even bother with the eastern asia countries. most are just jungle ridden sh!tpiles anyway. again, economic actions taken against them.

china isn't commie, flat out. dictatorship with a flashy name.

north korea is debatable. but the south is only "bomming" by comparison due to a lot of american aid, and american troops (the north koreans have to find a military that can stand a reasonable chance against their "enemies").

cuba is debatable, but then you factor in US sanctions / banning of tourism, the source of many of the other island nations income.

communism hasn't thrived because it always starts in places where the workers get f*cked, where the economies arent all that great to begin with. thats the sentiments that start revolution.

couple that with the flat out hatred of communist countries by the west, economic actions, etc, it's no wonder they all "fail".

	02-06-2003 03:11									#17
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quote: Originally posted by JCG What I can't understand about his theories (and those of other Marxists) is how exactly did he expect the leadership of the revolution (AKA the dictatorship of the proletariat) to simply fade away and open the way to "true" communism and equality....or did he even consider that at all?

Donīt know, Iīm not a Marxist I didnīt read much of Marx himself, but what I read from him made much more sense as analysis of the contemporary form of capitalism in the 19th century. It wasnīt as simplistic as Leninīs theory of imperialism, which is at certain points a real pain to read, not only because of his bad style.

	02-06-2003 03:12									#18
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Uber Krux, keep the so called "revolution" out of the peoples way and my way... maybe Angola is a good place to start.

quote: russia is a barren piece of crap.

And look at what the wonders of 80 years of communism did for it.

	02-06-2003 03:13									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Uber KruX where has it been tried?

Stop making excuses. It failed. Plain and simple.

	02-06-2003 03:16									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Fez And look at what the wonders of 80 years of communism did for it.

right, because the however many years of Tsars before that didn't impact the conomy AT FREAKING ALL. russia didn't exist until communism. debts and shortcommings in the economy were ONLY caused by communism.

i forgot. sorry.

	02-06-2003 03:19									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Uber KruX right, because the however many years of Tsars before that didn't impact the conomy AT FREAKING ALL. russia didn't exist until communism. debts and shortcommings in the economy were ONLY caused by communism. i forgot. sorry.

Well things fell apart in Russia during the 19th and 20th century. Before that it was considered a country at least.

It was the same with the Ottoman Empire.. it slowly fell apart internally. The Ottoman Empire experienced a change with Mustafa Kemal, who was pro-west. Russia did not have such a leader.. rather had a dictator we know as Lenin.

Communism really sent the country into the gutter though. It was screwed over and millions died under Stalin. You cannot deny this. Communism imprisoned the country.

	02-06-2003 03:21									#22
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Communism made Russia a superpower Fez...

	02-06-2003 03:23									#23
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Actually Germany did

	02-06-2003 03:23									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Communism made Russia a superpower Fez...

Did it?

I think that was Nazi Germany's doing. By declaring war on Russia, Russia had no choice but to arm itself. Before WWII.. Russia was a disaster.

	02-06-2003 03:33									#25
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Well, ponder this... would a Tsarist led Russia have been able to defeat Germany?

	02-06-2003 03:37									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Well, ponder this... would a Tsarist led Russia have been able to defeat Germany?

Probably not as most of the population hated the Tsars.

But there could of been a different route than communism.

	02-06-2003 03:38									#27
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quote: Well, ponder this... would a Tsarist led Russia have been able to defeat Germany?

Who knows, but the Communists didn't overthrow the Tsars anyway. A better question is whould a Provisional Government led Russia been able to defeat Germany, and yes, I think they would have. Especially with the economic reforms they were pushing.

	02-06-2003 03:40									#28
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That would make an interesting fiction story. Does anyone know of any books that cover this kind of subject? Alternate history, etc.

	02-06-2003 03:46									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Communism is a failure every single place it has been tried

I still contend that the basic truths of communism have worked well in BioDome projects and within a small family unit. Of course, it could then be contended that because the scale is so small, it is not communism. *shrug*

	02-06-2003 03:50									#30
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I just want to know what Russia would have been like if Trotsky had succeeded Lenin instead of Stalin.