07-07-2003 07:30									#211
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Mitchell doesn't like him? Must be some personal differences. Honestly, I like the look of Sam Broomhall, Canturbury/Crusaders No. 8.

I haven't actually seen the squad, but I don't think Randell fits in to Mitchell's style. He will axe players, and he's shown that. He even said Cullen was the third choice full back in the country (behind Leon MacDonald and Ben Blair). MacDonald is 1 concussion away from ending his career, and Blair hasn't played 1st class rugby since the NPC.

	07-07-2003 08:14									#212
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quote: Originally posted by Frozzy Mitchell doesn't like him? Must be some personal differences. Honestly, I like the look of Sam Broomhall, Canturbury/Crusaders No. 8.

Mmmm. Broomhall is okay, but Randell is a vastly improved player with a heap of experience. I hope this doesn't come back to bite them.

quote: I haven't actually seen the squad

New Zealand squad:

Forwards: Jerry Collins (Wellington), Rodney So'oialo (Wellington), Richard McCaw (Canterbury), Marty Holah (Waikato), Reuben Thorne (Canterbury, captain), Brad Thorn (Canterbury), Ali Williams (Auckland), Chris Jack (Canterbury), Kees Meeuws (Auckland), Greg Somerville (Canterbury), Mark Hammett (Canterbury), Keven Mealamu (Auckland), Dave Hewett (Canterbury), Carl Hoeft (Otago).

Backs: Malili Muliaina (Auckland), Ben Blair (Canterbury), Doug Howlett (Auckland), Caleb Ralph (Canterbury), Joe Rokocoko (Auckland), Tana Umaga (Wellington, vice-captain), Ma'a Nonu (Wellington), Daniel Carter (Canterbury), Aaron Mauger (Canterbury), Carlos Spencer (Auckland), Justin Marshall (Canterbury), Steve Devine (Auckland).

quote: He will axe players, and he's shown that. He even said Cullen was the third choice full back in the country (behind Leon MacDonald and Ben Blair). MacDonald is 1 concussion away from ending his career, and Blair hasn't played 1st class rugby since the NPC.

True. And he wasn't afraid to axe Mehrtens either. Which would seem to just about guarantee Daniel Carter a spot for his goal kicking. I don't think Carlos' kicking under pressure can be trusted.

	08-07-2003 12:59									#213
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quote: There's always the possibility that Pat considered returning to Leicester but preferred, instead, a team on the way up.

Then he didn't look very closely at last seasons performance by the French side then.

	08-07-2003 13:44									#214
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Then he didn't look very closely at last seasons performance by the French side then.

For goodness sake, since when has a cheap shot had to include logic!

	08-07-2003 14:51									#215
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It doesn't. But since when have I let a cheap shot pass me by?

	08-07-2003 17:40									#216
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Gee, hasn't the quality of the posting slipped since la petite grenouille nicked off to dip his tootsies in the Mediterranean?

Anyway, I was reading on one of the rugby sites the other day that the RFU took the casting vote to continue the automatic promotion/relegation system in your league. I was rather taken by the clubs' response - something to the effect that the decision marked the end of the world as we know it. Gee, haven't they got a hide?

	08-07-2003 18:32									#217
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Well in my case the posting dipped in quantity by necessity - I took a day off and when I came in this morning nobody else bothered to.

The clubs behaviour on relegation/promotion has been disgraceful for years now. A lot of money has gone into big name clubs that end up in the danger zone every year now and they act shamelessly in their own self interest on the issue. But the biggest argue for relegation to my mind is that Rob Andrew argues against it.

Expect the new Queensland link up in Bath to be fighting relegation again next season.

	08-07-2003 18:56									#218
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quote: One who doesn't need to, obviously.

Well he would always be second on my team sheet for the locks in a world XV of the last ten years. Not first, and not by some margin. And I’m well aware that will offend the whole of Australia.

quote: …hide thick enough to withstand the slings and arrows and bazookas he'll cop when they don't win.

Well … maybe so. I think you are counting on the All Blacks far too much though. The French exposed weaknesses in them at a time when the ‘rusty’ excuse hard worn very thin - so the Wallabies and England can certainly do the same.

quote: This is creepy! Either you're channeling him or he didn't stop at the seaside and continued on across the channel to Leicester!

I’m not at liberty to say.

quote: I actually don't think he's that old. I'll check.

The lad will be thirty before the World Cup final (this years).

quote: When you get to my age you'll realise they were a waste of brain space and regret not having better utilised the space for more important things like rugby.

I’ll keep it in mind so that I recognise it when it happens.

quote: And, face it, Mitchell already has a couple of try-scoring threats in the team without Cullen.

Absolutely. My admiration for Howlett I’ve made clear. The Fijian looks great too – France are class opposition despite the dip in form.

quote: So if he's not picked, I can only assume that Mitchell either thinks he's too old, or too much of a link with the past.

I’m afraid to say I see reflections of the time he spent with Clive in his selection – most specifically in the way he is using weird excuses for the omissions.

quote: Sorry, the Wallaby colour is wattle, not gold.

Why do the TV pundits go on about the ‘green and gold’ then?

quote: Mmmm. Broomhall is okay, but Randell is a vastly improved player with a heap of experience. I hope this doesn't come back to bite them.

From the game point of view maybe – but if it proves to be a bad call for the tri nations and RWC then so be it.

	09-07-2003 04:37									#219
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quote: Originally posted by Havak The clubs behaviour on relegation/promotion has been disgraceful for years now. A lot of money has gone into big name clubs that end up in the danger zone every year now and they act shamelessly in their own self interest on the issue. But the biggest argue for relegation to my mind is that Rob Andrew argues against it.

Presumably the existing premier (or whatever it's called) division clubs have made a pact to look after themselves and each other? If one looks like going down, the others will oppose it? With the favour expected to be returned? Bastards. Anyway, it was their ludicrous response to the RFU's casting vote that got me. I assume they meant it to be taken seriously.

quote: Expect the new Queensland link up in Bath to be fighting relegation again next season.

Put it this way - if they turn it around with much the same cattle, it doesn't speak well for Foley's coaching. I'll be interested to see how Connolly goes, though. I now have better access to his foreign efforts than I had before, so I can see for myself.

	09-07-2003 06:11									#220
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Well he would always be second on my team sheet for the locks in a world XV of the last ten years. Not first, and not by some margin. And I’m well aware that will offend the whole of Australia.

Certainly not me, and probably not the average sensible person. It's an entirely subjective view. The reality - and the truly interesting thing - is that they've achieved pretty much the same things via such different approaches.

quote: Well … maybe so. I think you are counting on the All Blacks far too much though.

Who knows? I could well be. I've been guided by anticipation.

quote: The lad will be thirty before the World Cup final (this years).

Fair enough. In which case he might nick off, and he'd be entitled to. We've got some up and comers behind him.

quote: I’ll keep it in mind so that I recognise it when it happens.

The irony being, of course, that by the time you reach this age, you've forgotten what you were once thinking that was, it vaguely occurs, such a waste of brain space.

quote: I’m afraid to say I see reflections of the time he spent with Clive in his selection – most specifically in the way he is using weird excuses for the omissions.

It doesn't bother me what excuses are used. All that matters are the choices. I don't have the slightest problem with Cullen missing out. His best was behind him. And Mehrtens' real strengths were his field and goal kicking, undermined by weaknesses in defence in general play and a preference not to take on the line. They can cover his kicking prowess. Leaving out someone like Taine Randell, I'm not so sure about.

quote: Why do the TV pundits go on about the ‘green and gold’ then?

Because it's easier to say. Wattle is, officially, the colour.

quote: From the game point of view maybe – but if it proves to be a bad call for the tri nations and RWC then so be it.

Couldn't agree more. It will be interesting to see how the AB squad changes between the Tri-Nations and the WRC.

	09-07-2003 13:35									#221
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quote: Presumably the existing premier (or whatever it's called) division clubs have made a pact to look after themselves and each other?

Pretty much the case. Although they happily threw Bristol to the Wolves when they realised the sugar daddy was bailing (Malcolm Pierce) and that Foley’s Bath were safe. Disgraceful stuff.

quote: I'll be interested to see how Connolly goes, though. I now have better access to his foreign efforts than I had before, so I can see for myself.

Yes he is in a big League now after languishing in the anonymous realms of French and Welsh rugger. Tamerlin is still away right?

quote: The reality - and the truly interesting thing - is that they've achieved pretty much the same things via such different approaches.

Great players, super captains, but absolutely chalk and cheese.

quote: Who knows? I could well be. I've been guided by anticipation.

They are a good side – but they are not a great one (yet). I think what might tell for them is that they are probably going to have the edge over Gregan’s boys in the pack. Not by much though so it’s going to be interesting. First up however is the Boks – and I must say I’m looking forward to this Saturday.

quote: Because it's easier to say. Wattle is, officially, the colour.

I’ll stick with Gold for the same reason the pundits do.

quote: Couldn't agree more. It will be interesting to see how the AB squad changes between the Tri-Nations and the WRC.

Two games against the Boks who still play a very physical game, if not quite in the ‘style’ of their last tour. Some changes are going to be forced I suspect. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Spencer hurt over the course of the tir-nations.

How do you think Eddie will call it on Stand off for Saturday – the bad boy is back but Mr Larkham is also fit. For me, if Larkham is fully fit it’s no choice at all – but Eddie seems undecided?

	09-07-2003 13:56									#222
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Pretty much the case. Although they happily threw Bristol to the Wolves when they realised the sugar daddy was bailing (Malcolm Pierce) and that Foley’s Bath were safe. Disgraceful stuff.

Yep. Dog in manger stuff. Guaranteed to ruin the comp.

quote: Yes he is in a big League now after languishing in the anonymous realms of French and Welsh rugger. Tamerlin is still away right?

Yep! Go for it!

quote: They are a good side – but they are not a great one (yet). I think what might tell for them is that they are probably going to have the edge over Gregan’s boys in the pack. Not by much though so it’s going to be interesting. First up however is the Boks – and I must say I’m looking forward to this Saturday.

Me too. Very interesting few weeks coming up.

quote: Two games against the Boks who still play a very physical game, if not quite in the ‘style’ of their last tour. Some changes are going to be forced I suspect. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Spencer hurt over the course of the tir-nations.

One thing's for sure - he hasn't had his S12 impact in any of the Tests so far. I think I'll be watching his progress most of all in the Tri-Nations.

quote: How do you think Eddie will call it on Stand off for Saturday – the bad boy is back but Mr Larkham is also fit. For me, if Larkham is fully fit it’s no choice at all – but Eddie seems undecided?

His arm is fit, but his lack of match fitness is what's bothering Eddie. He's reluctant to toss him, first up, straight into the deep end - against the Boks, who love to smash him - with so many other matches - and chances to start him - coming up. I think Eddie will start Flatley, with Larkham on the bench. Under the circumstances, I would, too.

	09-07-2003 15:11									#223
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quote: Guaranteed to ruin the comp.

For some it has. Remember the guy I go to Welford Road with who never honoured his lost bet to you? He hasn’t renewed his season ticket yet as he was disgusted by the late season machinations that took place to keep Bath up and specifically by the part of one of our executive in it (not that he acted directly for Tigers of course ) . So he has some scruples.

quote: One thing's for sure - he hasn't had his S12 impact in any of the Tests so far. I think I'll be watching his progress most of all in the Tri-Nations.

It’s a crucial time for him I agree. Make or break if he wants to fill that shirt for a while yet.

quote: I think Eddie will start Flatley, with Larkham on the bench. Under the circumstances, I would, too.

You make a good point there – I am sure you are right. We need Larkham fit for later in the year anyway so he and Wilko can hopefully clash again.

Some excellent news I missed yesterday – Kronfeld has singed for an extra full season.



More than that he has been made club Captain until Martin returns from Oz. :b He says he is enthusiastic about playing with our crop of youngsters whilst the old hands are away down south.

Also picked up for an extra year was Freddie Tuilagi – a Samoan wing/centre we tempted back from League two seasons ago and a huge crowd favourite with us. He can be very lateral on his off days but when he sparks he is hugely entertaining to watch – he loves contact and crashes the line with gusto. On occasion he does forget arms are needed in a tackle however.

Still lets give a quick word to Josh when asked about taking over from The Man:

quote: “I hope that the players will respond well to what I have to do and how I play. I hope they’ll get behind me and make my job easier, I’ll never be a Johnno but I’ve got a reasonably relaxed approach – I want to see the boys smile and enjoy the rugby and when we have to be serious we’ll switch right into it. That’s always been my style of play.”

You’ll note that unlike myself they credit him with spelling Martins ubiquitous nickname correctly.

	09-07-2003 17:49									#224
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quote: Originally posted by Havak For some it has. Remember the guy I go to Welford Road with who never honoured his lost bet to you?

I'm surprised that a gent such as yourself mixes with welchers.

quote: He hasn’t renewed his season ticket yet as he was disgusted by the late season machinations that took place to keep Bath up and specifically by the part of one of our executive in it (not that he acted directly for Tigers of course ) . So he has some scruples.

"Some" being the operative word. And you can tell him that from me! OTOH, that's exactly the sort of thing I meant. How can anyone expect to be respected when they carry on in such patently petty, selfish fashion?

quote: You make a good point there – I am sure you are right. We need Larkham fit for later in the year anyway so he and Wilko can hopefully clash again.

That's right. There's a demanding three or four months ahead. What I'm most looking forward to seeing this weekend is Eddie's choice of centres. He's long been a fan of Steve Kefu and has recently become a fan of Morgan Turunui. He's given them three chances together this season and they haven't set the world on fire. They're still both very inexperienced at the top level - Turunui only has one S12 season behind him but has great potential - so the question is: how long will he give them?

quote: Some excellent news I missed yesterday – Kronfeld has singed for an extra full season.

Goodoh. Someone to pass the tea and cakes in the Old Folks' Home and not look out of place.

quote: More than that he has been made club Captain until Martin returns from Oz. :b He says he is enthusiastic about playing with our crop of youngsters whilst the old hands are away down south.

Goodoh. He obviously doesn't use Austin's publicist. And speaking of bubonic plague, what's he up to these days?

quote: You’ll note that unlike myself they credit him with spelling Martins ubiquitous nickname correctly.

Mmmm. I just keep hitting the * key till I get RSI.

	09-07-2003 18:53									#225
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Anyone want to suggest a betting margin for this weekend's game? I give the Boks a 10 point head start.

	09-07-2003 19:16									#226
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Played over there, but at sea level. Boks struggled to beat the Pumas and Scotland. I suppose 10 points is fair enough. Maybe 12 1/2.

	09-07-2003 20:26									#227
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quote: I'm surprised that a gent such as yourself mixes with welchers.

He belly aches – but he has never welched with myself in the final analysis. He has the reputation with others though…

quote: How can anyone expect to be respected when they carry on in such patently petty, selfish fashion?

I’ll ask Austin for you next time I see him.

quote: They're still both very inexperienced at the top level - Turunui only has one S12 season behind him but has great potential - so the question is: how long will he give them?

Four more games?

quote: Goodoh. Someone to pass the tea and cakes in the Old Folks' Home and not look out of place.

The lad is 32. Based on the two tests the current incumbent has played so far this year he would be pushing a certain highly rated young flanker out the ABs still as well.

quote: Goodoh. He obviously doesn't use Austin's publicist. And speaking of bubonic plague, what's he up to these days?

He is fit and well and Clive has just named him in the huge 38 strong squad for the three games with Wales and France before RWC. 30 of those will make the trip so there is I regret a decent chance he will travel to his spiritual home.

More importantly the young Tigers centre Ollie Smith is fit and also named in the squad – as is the young blindside Moody (who hasn’t played since the Boks knackered his shoulder). If both these lads are truly fit they can add to England in a big way in Australia.

Keep hitting those *

Either of those margins seem fair – maybe 12.5 more accurately reflecting the comparative standards of the two sides?

	10-07-2003 05:48									#228
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12.5 works for me...30 gold on the boks.

	10-07-2003 05:56									#229
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quote: Originally posted by Havak He belly aches – but he has never welched with myself in the final analysis. He has the reputation with others though…

quote: I’ll ask Austin for you next time I see him.

quote: Four more games?

Nuh. Eddie has dropped Turunui and slotted in Matt Rogers at outside centre outside Steve Kefu. I suspect there's going to be a bit of this mixing and matching going on over the next few weeks. Eddie's on the record as saying Turunui's future is at inside centre, so I imagine he will turn up there sooner or later.

Matt Burke at full back in place of Latham, Flatley starting at fly half with Larkham on the bench (as expected), and Vickerman starting with Nathan Sharpe on the bench. I think Vickerman starting in place of Sharpe is more horses for courses than anything - Vickerman, of course, being Bok-born, fired up to do well in front of a mob of Boks howling for his blood and a team of Boks determined to punish him. And a fine test of his self discipline it will be, too.

quote: The lad is 32.

Is that all? Good grief, that's pre-pubescent in my scheme of things.

quote: He is fit and well and Clive has just named him in the huge 38 strong squad for the three games with Wales and France before RWC. 30 of those will make the trip so there is I regret a decent chance he will travel to his spiritual home.

Oh well, fingers crossed he goes to France and catches something.

quote: Keep hitting those *

Yes, I was only wondering the other day how I would word my workers' comp claim for RSI. Presumably something along the lines of - "Injury sustained avoiding naming a red-mist plagued, lantern-jawed log".

Now, slightly OT for a moment. You can, if so inclined, which means if you're totally bored sh*tless with nothing better to do, check out some of my professional exertions. I've got a new series starting on air here tonight, an, um, eccentric little series of 13 half-hour eps. It will turn up somewhere on English TV sooner or later because I think it has been sold there.

The basis of it is that each episode has a lateral thinking puzzle embedded somewhere within it. Sometimes significant, sometimes not. But it's not a series about puzzles. It is, at heart, an, um, eccentric boy-meets-girl story. It's set in the tiny, fictional Queensland town of Fat Cow, and it's called "Fat Cow Motel" because, logically enough, it's centred around the only motel in Fat Cow.

Anyway, there's a website attached to the series. It's primarily a vehicle for aiding and abetting the audience's attempts to solve the lateral thinking puzzles, but it's a lot of fun in itself. It updates every week after an episode has gone to air with all sorts of things relating to the content of the latest episode. There's an online "Fat Cow Bugle" - the town's newspaper - and, within the "Bugle", a weekly opinion column written by the town's GP, Doctor Nick O'Bates. Anyone who has ever tried to stop smoking might recognise the name. Regardless, amongst other things, I wrote all the "Fat Cow Bugle" stuff and Doctor Nick O'Bates' opinion column. Naturally, I based him on the appalling Alan Jones, former Wallaby coach, now rabid right-wing opinion giver. And, golly, it was fun.

Here's a link to the site if you've got a spare couple of minutes and nothing else to do. It should be up and running as of about 10pm tonight (our time). Oh, and if you follow the links all the way to the Fat Cow Chamber of Commerce, you will notice Fat Cow's archivist, Neville Brown. That's the pseudonym I use when rewriting. And the photo they've used for Neville - well, it bears more than a passing resemblance to moi.

And they used it without my permission! And the rugby players think they've got problems with the WRC exploiting their images online!



Edit. I just checked the website. It's up and running now. Early. Oh well.

	10-07-2003 09:19									#230
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quote: It will turn up somewhere on English TV sooner or later because I think it has been sold there.

Channel 5 I'll bet

	10-07-2003 10:30									#231
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I'm not sure. I know they were talking to Channel 5. I must find out.

	10-07-2003 10:40									#232
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia 12.5 works for me...30 gold on the boks.

Mmmm. I'd better dig out the Bank A/c.

Edit. No sooner said than done!

Andydog 286.5
Bearcat 80.5
Caligastia 67
finbar 56.5
Havak 106.55
Journeyman 122.5
LDiCesares 141.8
Mickeyj 143.5
NeoStar 114
ravagon 77.75
redbull 80
Tamerlin 69.3

	10-07-2003 14:28									#233
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quote: And a fine test of his self discipline it will be, too.

If you think my attitude to country choosers is harsh wait until you see what happens to Vickerman. The Boks always had a ‘warm welcome’ for Mike Catt after he hopped over to us.

quote: Is that all? Good grief, that's pre-pubescent in my scheme of things.

And only just turned 32 last month at that. I reckon he has two more seasons in him if his ankles hold up.

quote: Oh well, fingers crossed he goes to France and catches something.

He may be one of the players who gets canned too of course. I have a feeling Clive will take him for his versatility though, and that should give you some amusement as Austin hates the tag ‘versatile’ as it implies ‘master of nothing’.

quote: Presumably something along the lines of - "Injury sustained avoiding naming a red-mist plagued, lantern-jawed log".

How many Oz Civil servants will have a clue from that description?

I have briefly checked out the Chamber of Commerce – surely recompense is due not so much for the image but for the allegation of nit-picking? I may be well off the mark but it does look like it might reinforce certain conceptions of Queenslanders as being a little *different*?

I will check it out more thoroughly when I get time. Do let me know what channel signed it up here. If it’s Five I will probably double my yearly viewing of the station by watching the first episode.

Okay back to rugger. Did we settle on 12.5? I’m going to break with tradition here and say 10 on the Wallabies please.

The Boks haven’t fielded the same XXII twice in three games and they just don’t look a cohesive threat to me – I think the Wallabies will get their morale boosting start.

	10-07-2003 17:20									#234
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quote: Originally posted by Havak If you think my attitude to country choosers is harsh wait until you see what happens to Vickerman. The Boks always had a ‘warm welcome’ for Mike Catt after he hopped over to us.

Fear not, Vickerman is expecting it. And quite looking forward to it, too, I gather. He's a competitive chap.

quote: He may be one of the players who gets canned too of course. I have a feeling Clive will take him for his versatility though, and that should give you some amusement as Austin hates the tag ‘versatile’ as it implies ‘master of nothing’.

Yes, "versatile" is up there with "handy".

quote: I have briefly checked out the Chamber of Commerce – surely recompense is due not so much for the image but for the allegation of nit-picking? I may be well off the mark but it does look like it might reinforce certain conceptions of Queenslanders as being a little *different*?

I can't complain because I wrote it all. Parodying myself, I'm told.

quote: I will check it out more thoroughly when I get time. Do let me know what channel signed it up here. If it’s Five I will probably double my yearly viewing of the station by watching the first episode.

I'll find out and let you know. Somewhere like Five is probably where it belongs. It's a very slight, eccentric piece.

quote: Okay back to rugger. Did we settle on 12.5? I’m going to break with tradition here and say 10 on the Wallabies please.

	11-07-2003 06:19									#235
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I'm bound to win my bet...Havak's supporting the Wallabies.

	11-07-2003 07:00									#236
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Interestingly, the various betting agencies here have only a 4.5 points margin for the Boks. Presumably they're operating on the basis that we've only won three times there in goodness knows how long.

	11-07-2003 12:32									#237
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Glad I can help Caligastia.

They will have crunched those stats Finbar - and used the current world rankings as weighting.

But I've taken your frequent advice to heart - I've based my call on what I've seen of the two recently. The Boks could have easily lost all three tests last month, inlcuding to Scotland who are not even a threat to Ireland, and the Wallabies managed to stick it well against an awesome display of rugger from us (and we are in a slightly different league to the Scots these days). The Wallabies are the only winners for me.

Another interesting fact is that not only do the ABs need to win all their tri-nations games to get back to number one in the rankings - they actually need to record a couple of total 'wallopings' to do it - so it might be best if I am right about the Boks?

	11-07-2003 12:46									#238
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quote: Originally posted by Havak But I've taken your frequent advice to heart - I've based my call on what I've seen of the two recently. The Boks could have easily lost all three tests last month, inlcuding to Scotland who are not even a threat to Ireland, and the Wallabies managed to stick it well against an awesome display of rugger from us (and we are in a slightly different league to the Scots these days). The Wallabies are the only winners for me.

Yes, logic agrees with you, but then better Wallaby teams than this have succumbed over there. Still, this time it's at sea level.

I think I'll have 25 Civ Gold on the Wallabies. Pity la petite grenouille isn't around to boost the pot.

quote: Another interesting fact is that not only do the ABs need to win all their tri-nations games to get back to number one in the rankings - they actually need to record a couple of total 'wallopings' to do it - so it might be best if I am right about the Boks?

Well, if rankings are important. I honestly don't think they mean a thing. I didn't think they meant a thing when we were on top.

	11-07-2003 12:54									#239
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So the bets currently recorded - with a margin to the Boks of 12.5 points - are as follows:

Boks
Caligastia 30

Wallabies
Havak 10
finbar 25

And the available pool is 65 Civ Gold.

So the updated Bank A/c is as follows:

Andydog 286.5
Bearcat 80.5
Caligastia 67-30 = 37
finbar 56.5-25 = 31.5
Havak 106.55 = 96.55
Journeyman 122.5
LDiCesares 141.8
Mickeyj 143.5
NeoStar 114
ravagon 77.75
redbull 80
Tamerlin 69.3

	11-07-2003 13:13									#240
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

If I may, could I throw 15 at a couple of wattle coloured shirts