03-07-2003 03:06									#211
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quote: Originally posted by Lonestar Or for soccer games...as in "The goalie saved the goal from a score"

hi ,




have a nice one

	03-07-2003 03:08									#212
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so...weak save.

	03-07-2003 03:09									#213
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Panag,

Serb is right about the Petr Veliky. It is the only Kirov currently serviceable/deployable, and it does occasionally deploy.

	03-07-2003 03:12									#214
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Panag, Serb is right about the Petr Veliky. It is the only Kirov currently serviceable/deployable, and it does occasionally deploy.

Serb is incorrect. Trust me.

	03-07-2003 03:14									#215
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Not according to Hazegray.

	03-07-2003 03:14									#216
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Although admittedly the site could be out of date, naturally.

	03-07-2003 03:15									#217
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Hell, why people find it so hard to believe that the US steals techs from Russia? I'd willingly concede that Russia does it to a greater extent, but the US does it too! For example, a recent high-profile case involved an American gentleman who tried to steal the secret of the Shkval torpedos.

About a year ago I read somewhere that half (!) of the US foreign intelligence budget is still spent on Russia.

Just put aside your arrogance, guys.

	03-07-2003 03:15									#218
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It is. They had a Yard fire a almost a month ago.

	03-07-2003 03:17									#219
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Not according to Hazegray.

hi ,

*cough* , .......

if you have to trust them , ......

have a nice one

	03-07-2003 03:17									#220
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Serb,

quote: 02-07-2003 23:15 link Hell, why people find it so hard to believe that the US steals techs from Russia? I'd willingly concede that Russia does it to a greater extent, but the US does it too! For example, a recent high-profile case involved an American gentleman who tried to steal the secret of the Shkval torpedos. About a year ago I read somewhere that half (!) of the US foreign intelligence budget is still spent on Russia.

Honestly, I wouldn't doubt it. I'll be glad to grant you the point that IF RUSSIA HAD THE MONEY, and if the will was there, and if they got rid of the corruption and rebuilt their military from the ground up, it would have the potential to be a powerful force. But as things stand now, the Russian military is not powerful at all, from a US point of view.

Lonestar,

Interesting, I was unaware of that, and I doubt Serb was either.

	03-07-2003 03:17									#221
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond Hell, why people find it so hard to believe that the US steals techs from Russia? I'd willingly concede that Russia does it to a greater extent, but the US does it too! For example, a recent high-profile case involved an American gentleman who tried to steal the secret of the Shkval torpedos. About a year ago I read somewhere that half (!) of the US foreign intelligence budget is still spent on Russia. Just put aside your arrogance, guys.

I remember that. IIRC, it was bullshit charges.

But I do remember that Lockheed bought Russian rocket engines a few years back...they were amazed at the efficientcy of them, and asked for a liscensing agreement. Now their Titan rockets have Russian Engines.

	03-07-2003 03:19									#222
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Lonestar, Interesting, I was unaware of that, and I doubt Serb was either.

Yeah, well, *cough* it wasn't exactly broadcasted. But it is something I saw a few weeks back.

	03-07-2003 03:21									#223
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Figures.

	03-07-2003 03:23									#224
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Panag, Serb is right about the Petr Veliky. It is the only Kirov currently serviceable/deployable, and it does occasionally deploy.

hi ,

ushakov , ex kirov , " working "

lazarev , ex frunze , scrapping

nakimov , ex kalinin waiting repairs , many accidents , .....

velikiy , see above

kuznetzov , scrapped completely , 92-95

so , he aint right , ......

the velikiy is a death mans ship , it has allready costed more the 20 sailors and several work men there lives , ....

have a nice day

	03-07-2003 03:25									#225
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Figures.

eh? I don't know what you're talking about, and you shouldn't make any guesses.

	03-07-2003 03:37									#226
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quote: Originally posted by Lonestar I remember that. IIRC, it was bullshit charges.

or so you were told ...

quote: But I do remember that Lockheed bought Russian rocket engines a few years back...they were amazed at the efficientcy of them, and asked for a liscensing agreement. Now their Titan rockets have Russian Engines.

That's great. But an example of a legal deal doesn't exclude spying on other matters.

	03-07-2003 03:47									#227
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond or so you were told ... That's great. But an example of a legal deal doesn't exclude spying on other matters.

You're right.

The biggest problem the Soviet Union had was not aquireing the plans...or having it's own engineers coming up with some kickass designs...but that it's industry quality control mean't that it's best couldn't be built in signifigant numbers, if at all.

You know, when the Israelis captured some Mig-29's after their skirmish with Syria in the early '80s, we got a look at what should have been an outstanding piece of equipment.

We discovered the damn metal panels in the wings didn't even fit togather.

So, American Aerospace companies got to look it over and incorporate some things in their next programs, while they shook their heads at a crappily built plane.

Damn shame.

(well, I'm an American so *I* don't think it's a damn shame. Keep up the inferior manufacturing!
)

	03-07-2003 03:56									#228
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Lonestar, yeah, manufacturing quality is not among Russia's virtues.

	03-07-2003 08:35									#229
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd So, then, you think that a Russian armored division could take on an American armored division? If I were betting on it, I'd say a Russian AD would have problems fighting a US ACR.

1) American AD is much larger than Soviet/Russian AD.
2) If numbers will be equal result will depend on circumstances- when and where this fighting would take place.
3) More probably result will be close to draw.
4) We will win anyway.
5) Have a nice day.

	03-07-2003 08:40									#230
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , what rail , ..... it aint in no better state then the military , ...... ever since the military started to fall behind , so did the huge rail network , airfields , ports , etc , ...... have a nice day

So, I see you're an expert.
When was the last time when you was in Russia and saw Russian railroads?
Perhaps a century ago, in one of your previous lives?

I'm a railroad engineer and aside you, I know a bit about Russian railroads. Russia has the largest railroad network in the world and on of the saftiest railroads in the world.
You posted just another one of your typical bullsh!t posts.

	03-07-2003 08:41									#231
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , huh , who is , ....

I am.

	03-07-2003 08:43									#232
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond I am just puzzled why in hell would they want to immigrate to Israel. To serve 6 years in the army? I am pretty much surprised that there is practically no re-immigration from Israel to Russia among young males.

It's not true. A lot of Jews returned to Russia already and they still returning. Russian Germans returning also, but I guess in this case the reason is different.

	03-07-2003 08:47									#233
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , btw , there is not a single ka50 in chechnya since jan 2001 , ....

Of course, because active militry actions ended in 2001. Ka-50 were tested there and demonstrated outstanding results.

quote: oh , and if there is no war , the how come that more people are being killed there every week the in the entire ME in two months , .....

Bullsh!t.

	03-07-2003 08:52									#234
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , quantity ; 4 ,

Just admit it, you pulled this number out of your ass, did you?

quote: flying zero , ....

Let me guess, it's computer graphics, right?

	03-07-2003 08:54									#235
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quote: Originally posted by Saras The Vienna convention (Roland correct me if I'm wrong) says that military hardware and embassy properties may not be confiscated from a sovereign country.

But Vagabond said already that those freaks from "Noga" are completely insane. They already tried to capture modern Russian jets during last Le Burge (sp?) airshow.
I guess we should invade them to solve this problem. This "Noga" is real pain in the ass.

	03-07-2003 09:05									#236
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Serb, first, you're talking to an Israeli, not an American, what the hell do our doings in Iraq have to do with it?

It was an example. I was trying to explain him the difference betwen active fighting and garnison duties. I meant that garison duty can't be without losses and bring US army in Afghanistan and Iraq as examples.

quote: Second, most Americans understand that fighting is still going on, we're not plugging our ears and saying NYAH NYAH WE WON SO THERE CAN'T BE ANY FIGHTING I CAN'T HEAR YOU whenever someone points out that fighting is still going on.

You president said that war is over.

quote: Third, when the hell did the Israelis declare victory?

Then this guy should shut-up his mouth. Before lectuering Russians about Chechnya, first they should clean their own mess.

	03-07-2003 09:11									#237
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk BTW, do you think the Israelis should adopt Russian warfighting methods to secure "victory in two months"?

Then Apolyton Off-topic will become a boring place withot all those ME threads.

	03-07-2003 09:14									#238
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Actually, the Israelis used American and Israeli warfighting methods to secure victory in six days - fighting Russian trained and Russian equipped opponents

Blah..blah..blah...
What equipment? What training?
When in 70's (don't remember exact year) Soviets put in fight their small missile boat equiped with latest model of SSM, it destroyed entire Israelis cruiser.

	03-07-2003 09:15									#239
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion if you had your own research, where's the result? did they steal away all blueprints and copies?

It's classified.

	03-07-2003 09:16									#240
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quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV This is Serb, remember? Next he will be telling us that the B-29 was a copy of the Tu-4!

No, I wouldn't