21-10-2003 04:52									#31
	Got spare money?

I am. Keep up the good work, or at least redirect some foreign contact my way if you get fed up.

	21-10-2003 10:37									#32
	Got spare money?

I keep reading from time to time though I'm bussy doing other things like fighting warchicken

	22-10-2003 09:10									#33
	Put an end to popups!

quote: By the way, is anyone paying attention to this thread?

No, um, I mean yes.

	27-10-2003 19:58									#34
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From Arrian, by PM:

quote: Sir Ralph, How is your research of Philosophy coming along? We now have 9 turns to go on Code of Laws. I'm also going to ask the Monkeys how much longer Literature is going to take them. If they are lagging and the two of us are racing ahead (seems like a possibility), we have a decision to make. Either we pull up and build up some cash, or we continue onward and leave them behind. I'm leaning toward pulling up & hoarding some cash. That money will be useful once we're in republic, and leaving Monkey in the dust might be an invitation for them to invade CoD. What are your thoughts? -Arrian

My response:

quote: Our research is synchronized nicely, our last Philosophy ETA was 10 turns, so the next will be 9 turns as well (at most). We have The Wheel and will send it next turn (if I don't forget, and if I do, you have horses 2 tiles S of Silesia). According to their score Monkey are strong, so I don't see why they should lag in research. I hope they keep their word and research at full power. If they lag just for a few turns, we can wait and collect money meanwhile. If more, we (you) should ask, why is that. I still think, the one of us who researches Republic, should go ahead at full speed in either case. There's no time to lose. If the other hoards money for a few turns, it should be shared fairly then, since the benefit of The Republic will be mutual. Keeping an eye to the south and having some warriors ready to upgrade can't be wrong. SR

	28-10-2003 03:32									#35
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

From Arrian, as info inside another, rather private series of PM's:

quote: Oh, and regarding your suggestion of having some warriors ready to upgrade in case Monkey decides to get frisky... well, you have ironworking, have a look at the map. CoD got nice river valleys, yes, but we're screwed in the iron department. However, perhaps in the future it would be possible for CoD & Python to work out a deal to share your iron so that we both can time upgrades and such. You guys can hook up your iron use it to upgrade what you've got, trade it to us, we upgrade, end trade, etc. Obviously we would compensate you guys somehow... and such an arrangement would require quite a bit of trust of us on your part. It is my hope that we can earn and maintain that trust. Otherwise, the outcome is rather predictable, given the geography and resource distribution. At least ND had iron. -Arrian

	28-10-2003 20:27									#36
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From Arrian:

quote: SR, I received a response from Monkey. They are an estimated TWENTY turns away from Literature. It's only that "fast" because they will be building a new city soon. The lack of rivers + slow growth (they mined their wheat instead of irrigating, for instance) is obviously killing their research. When we established our embassy in Primate Central in 2110bc, they had 10 gold in their treasury, so it's not like they've been hoarding gold. Monkey is researching at half our speed (roughly). I'm trying to come up with ways they can buy tech without giving us tech or gold in return. I figure I've got to get creative. You may find yourself in a similar position, though of course due to geography you have less reason to go out of your way to accomodate them. Still, I'll be glad when Monkey & Python make in-game contact. -Arrian

	31-10-2003 07:21									#37
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I will volunteer to be the Monkey ambassador if no one else speaks up.

	01-11-2003 02:28									#38
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Message sent to Monkeys:

quote: Greetings from team Monty Python! I have ridden from afar (clop! chop!), seeking the Holy Grail. Have you seen it perchance? We are currently researching Philosophy, to better ponder the meaning of life and the airspeed velocity of unladen swallows. Are there any technologies you are willing to trade for it? I look forward to a long, productive, and peaceful relationship with Team Monkey! -DaveMcW Ambassador to the Monkeys C.O.War.D Team Monty Python

Do the monkeys have The Wheel yet? And do we want to offer it?

	01-11-2003 02:38									#39
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Well... they don't. Read the correspondence with Arrian, they contain the whole problem with the Monkeys. Since they started with the same traits as we did, but we met CoD earlier, they remained without techs to trade. Also, they have poor research terrain (no river) and seem to have met some pretty poor economical decisions (mining bonus food instead of irrigating, emphasizing production instead of growth and commerce, the usual...). CoD gave them Writing for free and we set them to research Literature, which they will have in ~20 turns. We should better not give them ideas what we already have.

	01-11-2003 03:26									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

So far we have prepared a deal, where Monkey researches Literature, CoD researches CoL and we Wheel and Philosophy. So Monkey gets the Wheel anyway in the end. What's not that clear is, that both CoD and we research with twice their speed and they'll fall behind if we make only fair deals.

	04-11-2003 15:48									#41
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From Arrian, by PM. Not yet answered.

quote: We're getting close to discovering CoL (4 more turns, I believe. It *might* be 5, depending on what I do with the turn tonight. I've managed to bungle some micromanagement, and am in the process of figuring out how to fix it). You guys are close to Philo. We should decide soon which team will research republic, and what the other team should research. You guys come before us in the turn order. Therefore, if you discover Philo before we get CoL, or the same turn as we get CoL and send it to us, we can immediately start on Republic. Otherwise, there will be a 1 turn lag during which you can't research republic while we send you CoL. In short, I think that having CoD research republic might shave a turn off (assuming our research power is about even, which it appears to be). What do you think? Second, what should the team not research republic go for? Map Making and Math are both useful (Math because it leads to currency. Mmmmm, marketplaces). My thought on this would be to choose whichever of those two is more expensive to research, and leave the other to Monkey to do when they're done with Literature (10 turns from now?). What do you think about that?

	04-11-2003 17:37									#42
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I'd have them research the republic while we shoud aim for math and currency. It is better to have marketplaces at the time you can have repulic. The monkey may research whatever they desire as long it is not the same as we or CoD.

	10-11-2003 04:09									#43
	Got spare money?

To Arrian, a short note:

quote: We discovered Philosophy last turn. How is CoL? About further research, would you research Republic (at full speed, not 40 turns) while we go the Mathematics-Currency/Construction path? Or do you have a better idea? And what will we do with Monkey? At this pace we'll leave them in the dust.

	11-11-2003 15:53									#44
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Arrians response:

quote: CoL is due next turn. If you send us Philo, we can immediately start Republic (at max speed). I like the sound of Math - Currency for you guys while CoD researches Republic. You're right, we are going to leave Monkey in the dust. And I honestly don't know what to do about it. I'm inclined to ask them to research Map Making next. It may be in our best interests to give them Republic once we have it. But we can discuss that later. Right now, the decision at hand is what our teams should research, and I think we agree that it should be: CoD - Republic Python - Mathematics, then Currency

quote: One more thing. I just realized that holding off on acquiring the wheel wasn't necessary. Since we will be finishing our research this turn, we can select HBR and pop the hut, having the same effect as selecting the wheel and popping it. Silly me. Can you please send the wheel along with Philo, then? Thanks.

I think we can trust them (well, at least I trust Arrian) and will send Philosophy and The Wheel accepted next turn.

	12-11-2003 11:28									#45
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I agree.
Trust is the start of any frindship.
Mistrust is to be kept in Mind secretly

	13-11-2003 03:55									#46
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

2 messages from Arrian. I'm not in the condition to evaluate them by any means... will say I'm drunk. May be some of our kniggets, who are not complete nutjobs as I am, will understand the message and respond apppppropriately... well I'm drunk... you get it!

quote: Just so you know, Republic is currently 32 turns away, at 100% research. We will be building a new city in 2 turns, and that plus the growth of other cities may drop that time a bit, but I doubt we'll get it much faster than 30 turns. Still, that's enough to do it at max rate instead of 40-turn pace. I guess. Hmm. Maybe not. Given the following... We popped the hut that was part of our writing deal with Monkey, and it turns out to be a pretty good deal. We got Mysticism. We're currently discussing what we're gonna do with it. The good news is our little research consortium is one step closer to the medieval age. I think we can work out some deal that uses mysticism to balance out the cost difference between some of the early medieval techs, so CoD gets to research a cheaper tech and thus saves some money (so, if Feudalism is cheaper than say, Engineering, we do Feud you do Eng, and Mysticism is factored in to make up the difference). Alternatively, I guess CoD could do Republic at 40-turn pace (though we just blew 1 turn at 100%) and use Mysticism to help cover for all the techs that Python would research in that time span. I still don't know what to do about Monkey. There is no way they're going to be able to keep up with our pace. Their land isn't very good. I need a creative solution, and every time I try to come up with one, I see problems with it.

quote: One more thing. Well, two, actually. First, we've decided to trade Warrior Code away. To Monkey and to Python (assuming you want it). It looks like we're doing another tech-for-hut deal. If you do want WC, I'm fine with selling it at 1/3 research cost or just agreeing to tack its research cost onto a future deal. Second, an issue came up in our private forum, which I figured I would clarify with you and with Monkey: I have been operating under the assumption that each team has exclusive rights to trade tech that they researched (or popped from huts) themselves. So the wheel, philo, etc., are yours to trade. We will not pass them on. Ditto in the reverse for CoL/WC/Mysticism for CoD, and Literature for Monkey (whenever they get around to finishing that one). I vaguely recall us discussing this at some point, but I don't remember the specifics of the conversation... I suppose I should dig through our Python Contact thread and see (I will now), but it doesn't hurt to just make sure. Anyway, let me know if we're approaching this from different angles, and also if you do want to do a Warrior Code deal, and if so, how you'd prefer to do it.

	18-11-2003 03:00									#47
	Increase the size of your Attachments

To Arrian.

quote: We are thinking what to do concerning Warrior Code. We don't have anything to trade at the moment and need our gold reserves to cover the deficit while researching at 100%. And we don't need it very much, too. What concerns the exclusive trade rights, well, except you we know only Monkey and it definitely doesn't look like they have anything to give in return anyway, so the trade limitation is fine with us. Apropos Monkey... Our mages say, that Monkeys on our continent are a species threatened with extinction. They can't bear the increasingly ferrous air. Have you heard about that, too? Interested in details?

	19-11-2003 04:41									#48
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From Arrian. Guess he got something wrong, but seems to be interested. I will send him a more detailed explanation.

quote: No iron for the Monkeys either, you say? Or have I totally misunderstood? Anyway, as they say here "I'm all ears." p.s. Hmm, maybe that's why they were so interested in warrior code.

	19-11-2003 05:54									#49
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

To Arrian

quote: Arrian, you misunderstood the part about the iron, but I think you got the general idea. Monkeys are threatened with extinction, they have no future on our continent (or anywhere else, for that matter). We fart in their general direction. Here's the plan: We (Python) immediately begin to build a road south. We're industrious and can do it fast. The road will go from Castle de Loimbard roughly southwest to the coast, and then straight south, over the mountains. Expect some traffic there in the near future. Once the road is done, we will build a city south of the jungle. It will serve as outpost and troop base. We expect the big Monkey chase to begin around 600BC. This way I think we have all chances to wipe them out. We want you to join and hope you are interested. Will you be able to mobilize your forces within this timeframe? Do not worry about iron, we will share our deposit. We need some horses from you, too, since we have none. Although our Knights mostly use coconuts, in some special cases horses are useful. After the Monkeys are gone, we will share the continent fairly among us, which should give us room to breathe, good chances in the rest of the game and solve our resource problems. It probably doesn't need to be mentioned, but please understand, that this is message is confidential.

	19-11-2003 11:04									#50
	Tired of ads?

From concmb25, our new Monkey ambassador...

quote: Hello Monty Python Guys, I have benn chosen to be your new Monkey Ambassador. We hope all is well in Python land! We hope to have a very fruitful and mutually beneficial relationship into the furture. A couple of issues, when its available we would like you to consider a map trade, we believe that would be mutually beneficial to both and would enable the both of us to have the same knowledge as CoD with there ever speedy scouts. Please discuss and let us know what you think, we still have time until map making. We would also like to discuss a frree exploration agreement. That means we get to explore where each other wants EXCEPT that we both agree to avoid each others culture rings. Please discuss and let us know what you think of this. Both CoD and we have agreed to a similar agreement. In the meantime we have noticed one of your warriors exploring the western half of our great Kingdom within our culture rings. We kindly ask you to head that warrior back north until we can reach some kind of an exploration agreement amongst gentlemen. Finally we would also like to begin discussing tech trades. We are on board with CoD's plan to race for Republic and would like to discuss how the Monkey- Monty Python trades would fit into this scheme. Please let me know who you want to be the Monkey Ambassador and Ill direct my future corrospondence to him, That way I can avoid the shotgun email approach Have a fine day and the Monkeys hope there are many fine shrubberies in your future! conmcb25 (Steve K) Monkey Ambassador[

Don't have time to write a reply tonight, will tomorrow if no one else does. His email addy is conmcb25 AT bluemarble DOT net.

	19-11-2003 20:37									#51
	Increase the size of your Attachments

From Arrian

quote: Interesting. Very interesting. My initial thoughts (this is just me, the moment I read your message): 1) Wow. To say it's bold doesn't do it justice. 2) Having gone out of my way to secure and maintain good relations with Monkey, I feel kind of bad about this. 3) How many turns between now and 600bc? 4) I agree that Monkey has been virtually useless in terms of research, but consider that their land sucks... what do you expect to get out of this? Further, though they're lagging badly, are two teams going to be able to keep up a good enough pace to match the others? 5) Speaking of that, I would think that dividing the continent between us would most likely involve you guys getting a FP (or palace rush/jump) down there, and allowing us to take the middle. Is that what you're thinking? 6) As for CoD troops, well, we do have 1 barracks city up and running, with another coming online soon. The plan for now was vet spears. But vet warriors for swordsman upgrade are possible. 7) If we do go ahead with this, clearly a horse-for-iron swap would be fair. ESPECIALLY if we get horseback riding from the hut we're about to pop. If we do, we can trade you guys horses so you can build chariots for horse upgrade, and we can build vet warriors for sword upgrade. When the time is right, we trade you HBR, and you give us iron, and BAM, we have an army. 8) I still feel kinda bad about this. I'll take this back to my team and get back to you as soon as I can.

	20-11-2003 00:49									#52
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From Arrian. CoD seems to be reluctant and unwanting. Any ideas what to answer? Proposals and discussions please in Dave's war thread.

quote: My teamates and I have a basic, yet very important, question: Why? Why destroy Monkey? We can make some educated guesses, but we'd rather hear your answer. From that question follows "what?" - as in what benifits are you seeking from their destruction? We spent considerable time and effort setting up a peaceful 3-way partnership here. I recognize there are problems with that partnership. Specifically that Monkey doesn't look real useful right now. But, even leaving aside our (CoD's)misgivings about backstabbing a team we've just managed to befriend, you're talking about investing in warfare against a team with Numidian Mercs, a long way away, and the payoff is crappy land, a luxury we would have had no problem trading for (ivory, IIRC), and maybe some resources we don't have. From where we're sitting, it doesn't seem to make a heckuva lot of sense. Which is why we have so many questions.

	20-11-2003 04:53									#53
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I assume that, before we do begin the march to war, we should attempt normal relations with Monkey.

Proposed message to Monkey (not sent, as it appears hotmail is down...)

quote: Greetings to you, the Jungle-Dwellers! I am Octavian X, Prime Minister, Supreme Despot, and all around useless fat guy of the Castle of Loimbard. We greet you with the hopes of peace for years to come. In addition, we also present this shrubbery as a gift of our gratitude for not making us cut down any mighty trees with herrings. We are intrigued by your proposals of a map trade, exploration agreement, and tech deals, and will discuss both of those proposal amongst ourselves. Once we've got and idea of how we wish to procede, you will be contacted. We, of course, apoligize for our intrustions in the Monkey Kingdom. We will be finishing up in the area very soon, and will remove ourselves in a timely manner. For future reference, I believe DaveMcW of our team volunteered to act as an ambassador to your fair nation. He, myself, or SirRalph may be contacted at any time for diplomatic messages. Regards, Octavian X P.S. :send coconuts!

EDIT: added quote tag, and message sent.

	20-11-2003 12:07									#54
	Increase Your PM Length

1. concerning the planned War with Monkeys we could give the folowing reasons.

- We need more space to grow. With the monkey in the south and COD in the middle we will soon run out of space. If we can share the continent with COD both of us have the space we need. (we shouldn't mention that an alliance with Monkey vs. COD would be the other maybe more reasonable methode of getting space but we could let them read it between the lines )

- We want Great Leaders. We can only get them through a war.

-We need the extra Luxury there.

-Two great nations can do better in the race against the other continents then three where there is always the fear of betrayal.

2. concerning with our relations to monkey.
I'd like to keep them as cool as possible. First it would lessen the fear that COD could have that we build an alliance with them and second I do not like to make promises only to backstab someone.

	21-11-2003 01:31									#55
	Full PM-box? Change here!

To Arrian, hope it helps. Thanks to all for your suggestions.

quote: War with Monkey The reasoning: 1) Geopolitical, 3 civs on 1 continent are a very instable community for long term coexistence, there will always be the danger of a 2 vs 1 alliance. Better are 2 civs (as we want) or 4 civs, since 3 vs 1 alliances are hard to forge. 2) Monty Python has very limited space to expand, even with the concessions granted by Cake or Death. While the land area seems big, the lions share of it consists of mountains and tundra. Although ICS on the small patch of grassland may be a solution for a head start, it will backfire later, when big cities are needed. This is inacceptable long term. 3) Both Monty Python and Cake or Death have scarce resources for the early game. 4) This is a competitive game and it generally is about eliminating each other. It is not a matter of good or evil, or do you consider the lion to be evil because he ate the zebra? The weaker has to go, when his time comes. And there definitely is a small window of opportunity to hit them hard before they build up a serious defense. 5) We (both of us!) need leaders for a FP/Palace jump and maybe some early wonders. They can only be gained through warfare. Rebuttal of doubts: 6) The Monkey land is not bad, it is just poorly improved. It lacks rivers and this is hard for the early game, but it matters no more, when the empire gets bigger and the Republic bonus and other methods and improvements to gain commerce kick in. 7) The Numidian Mercenary is a dangerous unit, but it has two severe downsides: It is expensive and can not be built in numbers by a weak nation, and it can not be fully poprushed. I doubt that we will see more than a couple of Numidian Mercenaries by 600BC. If we wait longer, their number would quickly increase. 8) Science-wise Monkey is right now only half a nation and I doubt that this situation can be improved quickly, so their elimination wouldn't matter that much. We have another proposal: Why don't we take each a side (one east, one west), send suicide galleys as soon as we have Map Making, and find the others? Since the risk is taken equally, the benefit will also be shared, all contacts gained this way shall be shared with the partner without a fee, no matter who makes them. Possible future: 9) There are two viable ways: Either Python gets a hold down there and Palace jumps while keeping its old core, or one of us moves completely by transferring his population through settlers and workers. Both ways are easier to go early, when there is not much population yet and not much improvements to abandon. If the second way is chosen, the other part shall keep the moving part up to date technologically and protect him. Either way, after seeing the whole map of the continent, all resources and luxuries shall be shared fairly. The lack of rivers could for instance be leveled by more luxuries (trade goods) or a bit more land. Either way will pay off in the later game, because the other continent will face two allied, kickass civs (both English comedy, a perfect duo) instead of three hampered ones.

	21-11-2003 03:23									#56
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Arrians response, for now:

quote: Thank you for explaining your team's thought process on this. CoD will discuss it - and knowing the "why" and the "what" makes that easier. Clearly, this will remain strictly confidential (I forgot to acknowledge that before). Some initial thoughts: On a personal level, my squeemishness about attacking Monkey stemms from my dislike of saying one thing and doing another (CoD has played nicey-nicey with the Monkeys... and then we turn around and stab them in the back? That rankles a bit, I have to admit). I know, I know, that's what leaders do. But in this particular demogame, I wanted to avoid that as long as I could. I wanted to try and keep the peace on our continent, and have all three of us team up as Imperialist bastards against the rest of the world. Regarding leaders for the FP/Palace move... well, I had planned on building a FP for CoD manually. Our chances of getting a leader out of a short war (the whole purpose of hitting them early is to lessen the number of Numidian's we will have to kill) are low, to say the least. Having said that, I *do* understand Monty Python's desire for more land. You guys are cramped up there, and I'm not stupid: it's our land that would make the most sense for you to conquer. I have been thinking about how to deal with your land problems (I was thinking about it *before* you mentioned your desire to destroy the Monkeys). Let me ask you this: have you found the southwestern penninsula of our continent yet? It's totally empty. It's not huge, but it certainly isn't small either. I really expected to find another civ down there when we were exploring. Would you guys be willing to consider the possibility of building a second core down there with our help? I know it may sound odd coming from me, but it might be actually be best not to go to war! Let me know if you haven't seen that southwestern penninsula, by the way, and I will describe it to you in some detail. Anyway, at this time, please don't take my comments to mean that we have decided one way or the other. We haven't. This is serious stuff. You guys are our close friends and allies (at least that's how we see you), and it was definitely my hope that we remain so and cooperate deep into the game. Please be patient with us. We were firmly on the course of peaceful development, and going along with your plan would require a radical shift in our plans.

	21-11-2003 03:39									#57
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

My answer to Arrian:

quote: Just a couple remarks (I'm busy playtesting my scenario): We are right now exploring the peninsula. We don't yet know officially, that it's a peninsula, but we know it inofficially, since we see the continent fork and the separating water has only 1 food. It seems to be good land, but I'm not sure if it's enough to have a considerable core there, I mean one that can defend itself, since the other half is far away. And believe me, two imperialistic bastards do better than three. Three is a baaad number for alliances, there's always the danger of a 2 vs 1 backstab, anytime! Diplomacy is much easier between two, too, than a three way diplomacy. And about you playing nicey-nicey, come on Arrian, are you serious? First, this is a game and competition and war are a substantial part of it. Everyone should be aware, that he can be attacked anytime, playing nice or not. And second, you have about 40 turns time to let the relations get frostier, be it by expressing disappointment about their bad research performance, by "accidental" territory violation with scouts or in some other way.

	21-11-2003 11:36									#58
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Geee. that sounds like the Cheese from PTWDG1.
I live in terror that we might end up taking this much to serious.
I myself are no exeption.
We wanted to have this one lighthearted and funy. why not just declare war to both of them right now and see how they act?
Well let me rethink it. most probably it leads to an early grave of Team Monty Python. Not funny...
We could jump on the Train of CoD and play nicey nice with everyone.
But...
I hate to much harmony just as much as I hate to much conflict...

No way out, we have to take this more serious or it'll end unfunny.

	21-11-2003 20:33									#59
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From Arrian. Still talks us out of the war plans. If you ask me, our chances to get CoD on our side are slim to naught.

quote: Here is my attempt at a detailed written description of the southwestern penninsula: I'm going to go West to East. It looks like this: coast-mountain-hill-hill-jungle-jungle-jungle* Next: coast-hill-hill-hill-grass-grass-cow on grass/river. Next: coast-mountain-hill-grass-grass-grass-grass/river. Next: coast-mountain-grass-grass-grass-coast (I think... could be grass, tough to tell from zoomed-out screen shot). Next: coast-mountain-hill-grass-grass-coast. Next: coast-hill-hill-grass-grass-??I think this is grass, but it could be coast??-coast. Next: coast-hill-hill-grass-grass-coast Next: coast-hill-hill-grass-coast Next: coast-hill-plains-grass-grass-coast Next: coast-desert-desert-grass-coast Next: coast-desert-desert-grass Finally: coast-desert-coast *- I cut if off here, because I figure this is roughly the midpoint between the southwestern penninsula, and the southeastern (monkeyland) penninsula. The river makes a good boundary. I know this is far from perfect, but hopefully it gives you guys an idea of what's down there. The screenshot I have available is zoomed out, so I cannot distinguish regular grassland from bonus grassland.

	26-11-2003 20:10									#60
	Put an end to popups!

From Arrian, by PM.

quote: Ok, we've discussed your plan, and we're in - but there is one condition. We're not moving our empire. Our loose build (ring at 4.5) is built to last. We will be happy to assist if you wish to move yours if you wish, instead of accepting two seperate cores. Up to you. In light of our decision, I think it would probably be best if your war road went through our empire and down into the jungle from there. That should hide it better from Monkey, at least in the early going, and it's a more direct route. Also, it will have the side benifit of helping hook up silks which we can share. If Monkey asks about the road, we can say that you're helping us with roadbuilding in exchange for 20 turns of silks. Once we move south of their with the road, however, things may get dicier. If I was a Monkey, I'd have a lookout on the hills SE of the jungle (MonkeyGrog). What size invasion force were you guys thinking of building? Keep in mind that if we're going to switch to republic (21 turns and counting...), we're going to loose several turns to anarchy. Let's estimate 4. So in approximately 25 turns, we will come out of anarchy. Just something to keep in mind. For the invasion itself, turn order becomes important. IIRC, amongst the three of us, Python is first, Monkey second, and CoD last. How do we use that to our advantage? If CoD hits a monkey city, do damaged units inside not heal until monkey's turn? If so, in theory, CoD could "lead" with horsemen to weaken Numidians, and Python could finish with swords. Does that sound like the beginnings of a battle plan?