 |
| |
|
|
Arrian
|
 |
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
|
|
PM received from SR, and my response:
quote:
RE: RE: RE: RE: PTW Demogame II
Ok, I'm fine with keeping things simple too. So you shall receive writing in 5 turns, please send IW back. It's a pleasure doing business with you.
Monkey has promised us there is no 4th civ. I choose to believe them. And no, Monkey doesn't have anything to trade. Unfortunately, they have the same starting techs as you guys, and have researched the same as you (bronze -> iron). Since we've traded, they're left with nothing to trade.
I like the Wheel + Philo for CoL idea. I'll present that to the team. I suspect they will like it too. You think we should research Philo & CoL at full speed, then?
-Arrian
quote:
Hmmm, does Monkey have anything at all to trade or give? What have they been doing with their gold so far?
About a possible no trade agreement: As long as it's only us three trading, things can be kept simple, I think. I mean, as long as there is no obscure fourth party, with who Monkey trades without you or us knowing, because this would put them in an unfair advantage. I think you can check this better than us, with your fast scouts. I also would like to make sure, that everyone contributes to the research, there should be bo party only buying cheap techs and meanwhile hording money. As long as this works in full transparency, I see no need in no trade agreements.
Writing is a quite expensive technology for this early stage, I'm not sure if you want to give it away for free. It might make sense, though. It's your advance, decide yourselves.
What concerns future research, so we could go for The Wheel (right away) and Philosophy (4+6), you for Code of Laws (10). Should make us finish about the same time. At this time, one of us starts Republic (probably at full speed, I think it should take 20, at most 25 turns), while the other two fill up the gaps in the earlier stages of the tech tree.
So far that's my personal view of things. But there's not much activity in our forum, anyway.
SR
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Arrian
|
|
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
|
|
New messages. This time I put SR's message first, and my response after it:
quote:
Ok, so be it then. We have the turn right now, so Iron Working is here. We're going for Wheel with now, followed by Philosophy. You finish Writing (we trade) and go for Code of Laws then.
Please don't go 96 with your scout next turn, you would block our settler. Go either 99 or 66; your scout would be welcome on our territory this turn.
Apropos settler, we saw your new city this turn. We have planned to settle pretty close to this point. City sites we aim for are (relative to the City of Snakes) CoS-777, Cos-998 and CoS-777744. These cities would make up our southern border. You have probably seen that we have a lot of rough terrain like tundra, hills and mountains up there and need to ICS and RCP a lot in order to get something useful out of it. I hope that is ok with you.
SR
PS: Of course you don't need Writing for Mathematics. Silly me.
|
My response:
quote:
Oh, I was going to mention CoS, sorry. That's as far up the river as we plan to go. We are considering a city 8, 8, 7 of Izzardia in the future (not a high priority site right now). Without looking at a map, I don't know if that conflicts with your plans. Let me know if that's an issue, and we can talk it out.
We're using RCP too, but a wider RCP (ring at 4). You know me and my wide city spacing  I just can't help it. But with your rougher terrain, I probably would break down and use a 3-ring.
I will put your request re: our scout in our forum (in several spots) to make sure we don't block you.
-Arrian |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mountain Sage
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arrian
I wonder if they would be fine with a Izzardian city "9" from the coastal wheat on plains (2, 2, 1 from their western border city)?
-Arrian |
I think we should aim at it: wheat+forest+game (? pic fuzzy). Check my proposal for an expanded ring (1 city 4,4,1 of CoS).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Arrian
|
|
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
|
|
 Yep, FP, I meant "not terribly so." Given the context, he will probably figure it out.
Hmm... a 3-way deal to share the GL could be interesting. Once we're in Republic, Izzardia can be pumped up into a monster production city (part of the deal would probably have to be slaves from the other civs to pump up pop in our cities to compensate for the "loss" of Izz for that purpose). FIVE hills can be worked (4 regular, 1 with wines), plus a bonus grass and a cow. 3 each from 5 hills + 2 from the bonus grass + 2 from the cow (replace irr with mine) + 1 from each other tile (mined grass/irr plains) + 1 from city tile = 25 shields/turn (lose 1 to waste, I assume, so 24). That's a monster city, capable of building a large wonder like the GL.
The problem is that it's probably better, from the point of view of our civ's long-term growth, NOT to build the wonder. First off, the tech pace in MP is such that the GL's lifespan is shorter than it would be in SP. Second, Izz is supposed to be building workers & settlers, which we desperately need. Third, the GL is 400 shields, and even at 20+ shields/turn, it will take ~20turns to build. In that same timespan, we could build a library, a marketplace, a temple and a cathedral (probably would need some short rushing, but could easily be done).
Unfortunately, one of my favorite wonders is probably out - the Colossus. Not only do we lack a really good coastal city to build it in, but it would trigger our GA all by itself, most likely too early (getting to republic is only 1 step, the other is getting our cities up in pop, working developed tiles. A republican GA with a bunch of size 1-3 cities and a settler pump capitol isn't a whole lot better than a despotic GA - it's mostly wasted).
The Lighthouse presents the same problem, I believe, but I'm not sure of that (is it commercial? I know its exp).
From a roleplay perspective, I wouldn't mind building the Hanging Gardens. 300 shields, decent happiness payoff, and of course Eddie is rather fond of them.
-Arrian
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Arrian
|
|
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
|
|
Message received from SR:
quote:
Shortly, because I don't have much time:
Thanks for your understanding in regard of our preferred border. We greatly appreciate it are sure, that our cooperation will be fruitful.
What concerns Monkeys desire to research with a 40 turn pace: This will surely set them back. They can not expect to get all techs 2 civs researched in 40 turns at full pace and give only one tech they researched with one beaker per turn. Somebody should clarify that. They can either participate at full speed and get all techs, or they save money and will have to buy the rest and pay the beakers with gold, with just a little discount.
What concerns the Literature vs. Map Making question: Map Making is more expensive and suits better for a 40 turn research, but in our situation I think Literature is more useful. Just my personal opinion.
SR
|
... and my response thereto:
quote:
SR,
We've had further communication with the Monkeys. They are pushing the bounds of our generousity, IMO. We still have some things to work out. Hopefully this can be done in the next 2-3 turns (they finish IW in 3, we finish writing in 2).
However, they say they are going to research faster than 40-turn pace, and are open to either MM or Lit. Are we agreed, then, that we should push for Lit?
-Arrian
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Arrian
|
|
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
|
|
I sent the following to SR:
quote:
I've a question:
Is trading screenshots of one's map (to circumvent the Mapmaking requirement for in-game map trades) considered ok, or a no-no in these MP democracy games.
To give my question some context, here is the current status of our negotiations with Monkey:
1) They want us to give them writing in exchange for the right to pop a hut they've left alone down by their start spot. This is of course a gamble on our part, since we could easily get nothing/conscriptwarrior/"maps" from the hut instead of a juicy tech, gold, or a settler.
2) They originally assumed that what we meant by a "3 team tech partnership" was that the teams coordinated research and just shared everything discovered, regardless of research costs. They seem to understand now that's not quite what we had in mind. I want a tech alliance, yeah, but I want each team to at least come close to contributing an equal share. The good news is they are ok with that now.
3) I assumed that our scout would be allowed down there to go pop the hut, and any map knowledge gained by said scout on the way in/out of the area would be considered part of the price of Writing.
4) I assumed wrong. They are touchy about us gaining knowledge of their map (and went so far as to suggest that we build a galley, bring the scout down that way, unload, pop hut, and get back on the boat, so as not to discover too much). Further, it appears they think that if we get a tech from the hut we are going to just give it to Monkey and Python (we're still discussing what we would do if it's a tech).
5) They have, however, mentioned the idea of all of us trading maps. Presumably us gaining knowledge of their lands would be ok if they got to see everything else (so much for any advantage inherent in the Expansionist trait). Then our scout could go pop this hut (which, again, may not give us diddly squat).
The rest of my team is taking this a bit better than I am. We've no official policy as yet, but it looks like we're leaning toward trying to accomodate Monkey's concerns. However, we cannot work a map trade in-game until MM is discovered. Hence my question. Do you think I should raise this in the general forum?
-Arrian
p.s. Monkey's ambassador to CoD is Hot_Enamel. Just to give some context. |
The more I think about it, by the way, I don't recall the trading of screenshots as being ok. The trading of minimaps (to give people a general sense of where in the world they started) was ok'd in PTWDemoI, but I do not recall actual screenies pre-mapmaking. Hmm.
Anyway, I told SR I'd keep him posted on the Monkey situation, and so I have. I trust him, so I've been extemely open about things (and frankly, if Python sees Monkey is being difficult and we're the ones bending over backwards to be the good guys, it can only help us, since Python is more likely to take our side in things later, when all three of us are negotiating tech deals and whatnot).
-Arrian
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:29.
Apolyton Time is 00:29. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
08-10-2003 00:31
|