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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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Outbound:
quote:
J,
Ok, here is how I see the road:
Starting from the border between our nations, near Castle Loimbard & City of Snakes. Here is my proposed path:
CoS 4
CoS 1
CoS 2 (done)
Ciao 6 (done in the next turn or two). Ciao, by the way, is new, built 444 of Izzardia.
Ciao 33 (the next task for the worker currently roading Ciao 6)
Swindon 7 (done)
Swindon 1 (hill)
Swindon 12 (hill)
Swindon 122 (hill)
Swindon 1222 (jungle, silk)
Swindon 12222 (jungle)
Swindon 122222 (hill)
Swindon 1222222 (jungle)
and so on.
We plan a city for Swindon 1122, so it will be off the road to the west, and will not interfere with movement.
Ok, important questions, in order to coordinate things properly:
Exactly when could your workers be at CoS 4?
We currently have a worker on CoS 7, roading. He will finish in 2-3 turns (have to check on that, sorry). His next move, in our worker plan is to move 1, to CoS4, there to irrigate and then road. If your workers can really be at CoS4 in 2-3 turns, though, I'll have him hold off, and come in behind your guys (just to irrigate, and then get him out of the way for the troop movement that will eventually follow).
Similarly, our Plan calls for the worker currently roading Ciao6 to move 2 (to Ciao33) and build both a road and a mine. If your workers will be moving through as quickly as you say, he too may need to do something else until your roadcrew is past, and then come back to build the mine. Depending on the exact timing, he may be able to build a road before your guys get there, allowing them to proceed straight to Swindon 1.
Ideally, your workerteam moves would look like this:
1) move to CoS4
2) road
3) move to CoS1
4) road
5) move to Ciao 33.
6) move to Swindon 1.
7) road
8) ...
9) move south... and so on and so forth.
Alternatively, it may be helpful for CoD for your guys to march around Ciao33 for now (I don't think it will actually waste any turns, since it will take only 1 turn of movement to get to Swindon1 from either Ciao33 or Ciao36). That will allow our worker to build his mine & road normally, which helps Ciao get some production going for its barracks build.
We can surely protect your workers until they get down south of the silks. It's probably easiest to send a spearman with them from the start, provided you have one available.
-Rob |
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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quote:
Rob,
thanks for the road description. We will have to road either CdL-2 or CdL-3 first, and can be at CoS-4 in three turns from now:
1400 BC - move to CdL-2 or -3
1375 BC - road CdL-2 or -3
1350 BC - move to CdL-3 (edit: CoS4, as per a short correction note from SR)
etc.
Yes, we have a Spearman who babysits the workers, as there's also the Monkey warrior Cheetah running around. We will send him together with the workers then. If there are problems or other suggestions, let us know. Hope we can nicely synchronize all tile improvements.
As for the casus belli: I'm sure, Monkey has chemical weapons! In fact, one of the swallows, who bring us coconuts from the tropes, made an air photograph, which clearly shows mobile laboratories on the roads through the monkey forests. At least 2 of our knights, Sir Colin and Sir Powell say so!
J. |
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quote:
 Sigh. Anyway,
So you will enter our territory in 1350bc (which I call T67), at CoS4 (I got your second message with the correction). Ok. I will order Englebert Slatiback (worker near CoS) to wait until your team passes, and then he can irrigate behind you.
By my calculations, you will hit Ciao33 in 7 turns (T71). You guys move first, though, so we will have to make sure that tile is clear on T70. We have workers completing jobs near there, and will be able to move on T66 (two turns from now). I'm going to have 1 of them move to Ciao33 and road. He will finish that on T70, and move away. Perfect, I think! Then he and his teamate can come back and quickly mine Ciao33 after they're done developing an adjacent tile.
Moving further ahead, you will reach Swindon1 on T72 (1225bc?). If you can add a third worker, they can build those hill roads in 1 turn, but 2 will get it done pretty fast anyway. The road will be done long before the troops it is designed to transport.
Gotta run to lunch, later!
-Rob
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Last edited by Arrian on 01-12-2003 at 23:33
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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More messages, phew:
quote:
J,
Do you know how the game mechanics treat 2 industrious workers building a road on a hill in PBEM? Does it eat up 2 full turns for both workers, or does one of the workers get to move on the 2nd turn?
Roading a hill takes 6 normal workerturns to build, and each of your workers puts out 2 workerturns/turn, so at the end of the first turn of roading, 4 of the 6 required workerturns are done. On the next turn, the first worker contributes the final 2, theoretically freeing up the second worker to move. Am I right?
-Rob
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quote:
Rob,
you should be right, since PtW 1.21f it seems to be that way, without having it checked for now. But I certainly noticed, that in a worker pair roading a mountain (5 turns for one, 3 turns for 2) one is available a turn earlier than the other.
Another important information: I just played our turn. Our 2 Workers are at CdL-3 now, will road there next turn and enter your territory at CoS-4 one turn later. There's Monkeys scouting Cheetah approaching. In order to prevent her from seeing the 2 Workers, can you please move a military unit to the forest tile at CoS-41 in exactly 3 turns (1325 BC)? We will cover CoS-44 with our guarding Spearman. It would look foul if we (or you) blocked both tiles, but this way it just looks as if we're watching each other. It's only for a few turns, then our workers will be well inside your territory and the units can be withdrawn.
J. |
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quote:
J-
I think we can manage that. Ok so "now" which is T65, your workers are at CdL3. On T66 they road. On T67 they move to CoS4. Hmm. The only problem here is now they can reach Ciao33 sooner than our worker can be out of the way. My suggested fix for that is to have your guys move a little closer to Izz (I'll tell you the exact tile once I have a look at a screenshot). They can still get to Swindon1 in 1 turn, due to roads and RoP. Which reminds me, we need to sign a RoP. I'll ask that we offer you one in-game.
-Rob |
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Mountain Sage
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Well, yes, I don't want the Monkeys to get wind of our 'barbarian expedition'
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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To Sir Ralph:
quote:
J,
FYI - we are now 10 turns from republic (as of 1275bc). Monkey has finished Literature. I asked them to send it to us so we could do a CoL <-> Lit trade, but when I got the turn, there was no diplo offer. So I offered CoL to them (unaccepted). You guys might want to start working on a Lit <-> philo + something trade.
I suggested they research Map Making next. IIRC, you guys went for Math, so MM was really the only useful tech they could research.
We appear to have made a 3rd hut deal (hut for the wheel) with Monkey. We're going to wait until we have republic, so we can block off HBR, and if you have math by then (and give it to us, as part of a republic deal) we might get polytheism out of the hut. We probably won't, but I figure it's worth a shot.
My current thinking is that we can go for construction at 40-turn pace (1 scientist) after republic, to raise cash for troop upgrades and/or rushbuilding. I remember you saying you might do something similar after math (currency with 1 scientist?)
So, how's math coming?
-Rob |
Last edited by Arrian on 12-12-2003 at 21:48
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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Doh! I screwed up. But it's recoverable.
quote:
Shortly (as I'm tired),
we have Mathematics since a couple of turns and are 9 turns away from Currency. We can give you Mathematics next turn, if you need it.
You are screwing us a bit with your hut for Wheel deal. The Wheel was, along with Philosophy, our part of the three way research agreement (The Wheel+Philosophy/Code of Laws/Literature). Can you please make another deal with Monkey?
J.
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..
quote:
J,
MY BAD!!  I'm really sorry, I managed to totally forget the wheel was your tech... wow. That will be dealt with, for sure. Honest mistake, seriously, it wasn't intentional.
Currency in 9, huh? You guys have been researching really fast  How to the combined costs of math and currency compare to republic... is that a fair deal, or will we have to adjust?
Anyway, get some sleep and we can talk about that later. I'll inform Monkey of my mistake, and work something else out with them.
-Rob |
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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More messages between SR and I:
quote:
Rob,
Mathematics plus Currency (8+16) are 4 points short of the price of Republic (28), so we planned to research Mysticism (4) as compensation. But from your previous message I read, that you already have it. Since we're planning to hoard gold after this for 40 turns, I'm sure we can find another solution.
J. |
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quote:
J,
Yeah, we got mysticism from one of the huts we popped down in Monkeyland.
Hmm, given the current tech situation, I guess it would be best if Python did Construction at 40 turns, whilst CoD does Polytheism (assuming of course that we don't get lucky and get Polytheism from the hut deal we're working on with Monkey).
One of us should research HBR at some point (though I would prefer to hold off on it for a while, so that our barracks towns can pump out several chariots for upgrade first). We will have horses hooked up in 3 turns, IIRC. We can probably build 2-3 chariots before we get republic and go into anarchy. Anarchy will probably take 4-5 turns. Then, once we're in republic, we can see what our cashflow situation is.
About how many more turns until you want to launch the war?
I sent a PM to conmcb25, by the way, explaining my mistake with the wheel. I think I'm also going to set up a thread in our forum that lists which techs we have and where they came from, so we know which are available for us to trade, and which are yours.
-Rob
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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Yikes, the invasion date 25-30 turns away.
quote:
Rob,
we are fine with researching Construction in 40 turns after we discover Currency.
We do not plan to switch to Republic immediately. This would mean a couple of lost turns for our war production and thus, a loss of military strength, which we are not willing to take. Since we'll research at 40 turn pace anyway, gold won't be an issue. We will earn more than we can spend even under Despotism. The only downside is, that we can't rushbuy, but that's ok. We take our time of anarchy, while our armies are on their way south. The spoils of war will hopefully outmatch the few measly lost gold coins.
We plan to strike somewhere around 600 BC, that is 25..30 turns from now. Can you get your troops together at this time too?
J. |
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quote:
Hmm, 25-30 turns from now.
10 turns until republic, ~5 turns in anarchy... that would leave 10-15 turns to build/upgrade CoD's army.
I was just thinking (and posting about it in our forum) about this force for the invasion:
6 horse
6 sword
4 spear
4 cats
(and hopefully 1 galley)
Some of the spearmen are built already. I figure we will have 2-3 chariots going into anarchy. We should be able to build 4 more within 10 turns, plus several warriors. Basically, if we've got 15 turns once we're in republic, I'm confident we can deliver a solid army. In 15 turns, we should be able to build most of what I wanted to build and generate the cash needed to upgrade those troops (~230g more than what we have now)
I guess I may have to give up on the catapults, or at least only bring 2. The galley could be lacking too.
Can we agree that we will hold off until Monkey finishes Map Making, so we can get that out of them before we strike?
What type of forces are you guys bringing to the party?
-Rob |
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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More messages... as I feared, they're looking at higher troop numbers than I was...
quote:
Rob,
we think we'll bring around 20 swordsmen and a few (~3-5 of each) horsemen, spears and catapults. We are fine to wait till Monkey has Map Making. I hope they don't research it at a 40 turn pace.
Another question: How will we name our continent for public posts? I don't want an Estonia/Stormia or Bob/Borconia mess, with every team using a different name. We are both English comedy teams. What about "Comedia"? Also, the jungle and the mountain chains should have names too. So should the western peninsula and the separating bay (which we name Gulf of Monkey, but that's temporary). Any thoughts?
J.
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quote:
TWENTY swordsmen? Holy ****. I'll see if maybe CoD can come up with more than I had originally intended. If we're in this, I don't want to be useless in the war effort. We're going to want to crush them quickly, before their GA bonus allows them to stockpile large numbers of Numidians in Primate Central.
"Comedia" is a decent idea for a name. I can't think of anything better right now, but I'll ask my teamates if they can (I'm kinda bad at that sort of thing).
The I think the only thing we really named was the river our teams share - River of Snakes (but obviously, that's only our portion of it...).
FYI - we have an archer moving down the Southwestern mountain chain and he just encountered a barbarian horseman (killed him, got promoted to vet, sweet!). So those little bastards are out there. Hopefully Frustrated Poet (the aforementioned archer) can nail a couple of barb camps, which will help pay for CoD's unit upgrades to come.
-Rob |
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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To SR:
quote:
J,
An update: CoD is now 7 turns from republic. Monkey is ~20 turns from Map Making.
We have decided to trade them Mysticism for rights to the last goodie hut. We will pop the hut right after discovering republic, so we can block off HBR. If we do get a tech, it will be Polytheism or Construction, whichever is cheaper (I think polytheism).
Cort Haus calculates that we will be able to come up with 8 swords, 8 horse, 4 spear and 2 catapults in time for the invasion. We also expect to bring at least 1 galley, but if we can, we will bring 2 (to ensure capability of sinking a Monkey escape craft).
Oh, one other thing. Our next city is now planned for 22111 of Swindon (the original plan was to build on the hill 2211 of Swindon, but we decided to move it onto the river). The settler for that city will be done in 2 turns. That will be our southernmost city for quite a while... so once your roadcrew gets past the silk tile south of Swindon, if Monkey sees them, they will surely be suspicious. And we will no longer have a plausible excuse.
-Arrian
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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Messages back and forth:
quote:
Rob,
We hereby give you notice, that in the next turns a Swordsman will cross your territory. Since there are many barbarians in the south and the rough terrain forces them to split sometimes (like now), our Workers need more guards. He's right now in Château de Loimbard. We assume you will go with your Worker (Englebert Slaptiback) from CoS-4 to CoS-1, to irrigate there. So the Swordsmans route will be:
1150BC: 322 to Ciao-1
1125BC: 6 to CoS-2
1100BC: 232 to Swindon-8
1075BC: 122 to Swindon-12, the place our Spearman holds now
What concerns the excuse for the road, we may say for a while, that we also want a silks colony. Later we will build a city there as base camp, which they will see anyway, so no big deal.
Some thoughts about research. We carefully need to plan our research cooperation. Monkey will be busy with Map Making for a while. If we (Python) research Construction with a 40-turn pace and you would find Polytheism in the hut, this would basically stall your research, since we assume you don't want neither Monarchy nor Horseback Riding, at least not yet. One possible solution is, that one of us goes to 0% research and funds the other, who researches at maximal pace with a fair gpt amount. This way, both of us could save some upgrade/rush money. What do you think?
J.
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quote:
J,
Hang on a minute with that swordsman route. I think it's fine, but I need to check our worker orders to make sure. You may have to dodge a worker team. We're still doing terrain development (mining) in the Ciao/Swindon area. The bits around the war road route should be done soon, though, so I don't expect our workers will get in your way when you send your main army through.
I agree regarding research. It all hinges on whether or not we get polytheism. We will know soon. The chances aren't great, so most likely we will end up researching polytheism while you do construction.
-Rob |
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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From SR, and my response:
quote:
Rob,
shortly: We have Currency and would send it in exchange for The Republic. Together with the already delivered Mathematics that's still 4 points short of The Republic, so let us know what you want as compensation. With Construction, we started a 40 turn research now. If you research Polytheism, or find it in a hut, the next deal could be Warrior Code (3) + Mysticism (4) + Polytheism (12) for Construction (20). That's almost even. I'm sure we find a solution for Horseback Riding too, which is the last advance to research before we enter the Medieval age.
Since the upcoming war (hopefully) leaves us alone on our continent, we need to discuss a suicide galley concept, which will connect us with the other continent ASAP to make sure we can keep up in research. I think you should send galleys from the east coast (we don't have cities there at the moment), while we will try our luck from the west cost, where you are lacking productive cities. All contacts made by the common effort shall be shared without fee, regardless which side makes them. Can you agree with this deal? The # of galleys to be sent can be a subject of further negotiations.
J.
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quote:
J,
Ok, so there are 4 research points (96 beakers, though I think Monarch level jacks that cost up to more like 105 beakers... honestly, I'm not exactly sure how that works) to be made up from out Math+Currency for Republic deal. That's not all that important right now... and figuring out what to do about it would be easier once we know whether or not we get Polytheism from the hut. So for now, let's just put that on hold. Send us currency, and we will send you republic as soon as we have it.
Once we pop the final hut, we can decide what we want to do to even up our trades. My current intention, by the way, is to research Horseback Riding after Republic, followed by Polytheism... trying to time our discovery of Polytheism to coincide with yours of Construction. The easiest thing would probably be for us to get some gold for you to cover the 4 research points (which would help us with unit upgrades). Let's talk again in a few turns.
I'm pretty sure that the cooperative suicide galley runs (and free contact trading) will be fine with us. IIRC, Cort Haus suggested that exact idea not too long ago. I'll confirm and get back to you.
Have you guys decided what you are going to do with your empire (two halves with us in the middle, or move the whole thing to the South)?
-Rob |
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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From SR:
quote:
We're fine with a split empire. If we won't get a leader for a FP rush, we'll palace jump. |
So, their original core will remain. Given that, I'd expect we should get the entire jungle area. I think we could realistically build the FP in the 22111 from Swindon site. It's a bit close, I know. But then again, closer means quicker, and with the jungle cleared, and lots of cities built down there, we should have a solid empire. EDIT: nevermind, too close. One more city to the southwest, perhaps.
We might consider a FP farther south, or even out west, though. Some of it depends on where our borders will be. Which reminds me, I should discuss that with SR!
-Arrian
2nd edit: actually, it's probably even better to build a FP west of Swindon/Ciao and then execute a "palace jump" down to the southern side of the jungle. I'm just a little hesitant because I've never done a palace jump before.
Last edited by Arrian on 24-12-2003 at 02:29
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01-12-2003 21:08
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