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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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Sent/received:
quote:
Ok, I sent you writing. At least I think I did. I opened up the diplo screen, put writing in as a new deal, hit "accept" and "send." The only reason I say I "think" I sent it is that after having done that, if I went back into the diplo screen, it still listed writing as a tech we had but you didn't. I'm still not real comfortable with the way some things work in PBEM.
Hopefully, I did it right. If not, I'll figure it out and fix it next turn.
-Arrian |
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quote:
You did it right, except that it wasn't necessary to accept it, since this could give us Writing without us returning anything. But don't worry, we won't betray you and send IW back next turn, also accepted.
SR
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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Response from SR, and my response thereto:
quote:
Our research is synchronized nicely, our last Philosophy ETA was 10 turns, so the next will be 9 turns as well (at most). We have The Wheel and will send it next turn (if I don't forget, and if I do, you have horses 2 tiles S of Silesia).
According to their score Monkey are strong, so I don't see why they should lag in research. I hope they keep their word and research at full power. If they lag just for a few turns, we can wait and collect money meanwhile. If more, we (you) should ask, why is that. I still think, the one of us who researches Republic, should go ahead at full speed in either case. There's no time to lose. If the other hoards money for a few turns, it should be shared fairly then, since the benefit of The Republic will be mutual.
Keeping an eye to the south and having some warriors ready to upgrade can't be wrong.
SR |
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quote:
SR,
Excellent. Monkey does appear to be strong, but not rich. Unlike us, their capitol is on a lake, not a river. They also did not build an early granary (building it now, IIRC).
You're right about Republic - the faster the better. It seems our research power is roughly even, so it doesn't really matter which one of us does the research and which one hoards gold (if that's what we end up doing).
Hmm, you've gotten south of Silesia? Oh - you sent a warrior around Izzardia to the east, didn't you. I remember now. Well, you ought to meet the Monkeys soon, then. They have a warrior coming north.
-Arrian |
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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Another exchange with SR:
quote:
Ummm, I understand. I was screwed like this in the GS PBEM #3. I was the only one without a river (not even close!) and still managed to outresearch OPD and FP. Nathan, OTOH, used his edge well and killed me with a huge tech lead, bringing muskets and cavalries in galleons against my pikes and riders in galleys.
Having no river in the core is shite... |
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quote:
Ouch. That sounds like Nathan alright.
Oh, and regarding your suggestion of having some warriors ready to upgrade in case Monkey decides to get frisky... well, you have ironworking, have a look at the map.  CoD got nice river valleys, yes, but we're screwed in the iron department.
However, perhaps in the future it would be possible for CoD & Python to work out a deal to share your iron so that we both can time upgrades and such. You guys can hook up your iron use it to upgrade what you've got, trade it to us, we upgrade, end trade, etc. Obviously we would compensate you guys somehow... and such an arrangement would require quite a bit of trust of us on your part. It is my hope that we can earn and maintain that trust.
Otherwise, the outcome is rather predictable, given the geography and resource distribution. At least ND had iron.
-Arrian |
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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To Python:
quote:
J -
We're getting close to discovering CoL (4 more turns, I believe. It *might* be 5, depending on what I do with the turn tonight. I've managed to bungle some micromanagement, and am in the process of figuring out how to fix it). You guys are close to Philo. We should decide soon which team will research republic, and what the other team should research.
You guys come before us in the turn order. Therefore, if you discover Philo before we get CoL, or the same turn as we get CoL and send it to us, we can immediately start on Republic. Otherwise, there will be a 1 turn lag during which you can't research republic while we send you CoL.
In short, I think that having CoD research republic might shave a turn off (assuming our research power is about even, which it appears to be). What do you think?
Second, what should the team not research republic go for? Map Making and Math are both useful (Math because it leads to currency. Mmmmm, marketplaces). My thought on this would be to choose whichever of those two is more expensive to research, and leave the other to Monkey to do when they're done with Literature (10 turns from now?). What do you think about that?
-Rob |
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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They were 20 turns from Lit when we were 10 turns from CoL.
Python can do what they wish with the wheel. They researched it. We are holding off on it until we pop the hut. In fact, the first thing we should do next turn is to select the wheel and pop the hut, and then switch to Republic, and crank up the slider.
We also need to decide what we want to do with respect to Warrior Code. I'm leaning towards doing the second hut-for-tech deal. The thing is, in order to maximize our chances of getting something good out of it, we would need to wait until we have republic to pop it (so we can select HBR as our research to block that off).
Hmm, speaking of which, come to think of it, we might not have needed to hold off on getting the wheel after all, because we could have just selected HBR. *Sigh* I stoopid.
I will write SR another message and ask for the wheel next turn, along with Philo. We accept it, and we select HBR as next research, pop hut, then switch to Republic at max.
-Arrian
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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FYI note to SR,
quote:
J -
Just so you know, Republic is currently 32 turns away, at 100% research. We will be building a new city in 2 turns, and that plus the growth of other cities may drop that time a bit, but I doubt we'll get it much faster than 30 turns. Still, that's enough to do it at max rate instead of 40-turn pace. I guess. Hmm. Maybe not. Given the following...
We popped the hut that was part of our writing deal with Monkey, and it turns out to be a pretty good deal. We got Mysticism. We're currently discussing what we're gonna do with it. The good news is our little research consortium is one step closer to the medieval age. I think we can work out some deal that uses mysticism to balance out the cost difference between some of the early medieval techs, so CoD gets to research a cheaper tech and thus saves some money (so, if Feudalism is cheaper than say, Engineering, we do Feud you do Eng, and Mysticism is factored in to make up the difference). Alternatively, I guess CoD could do Republic at 40-turn pace (though we just blew 1 turn at 100%) and use Mysticism to help cover for all the techs that Python would research in that time span.
I still don't know what to do about Monkey. There is no way they're going to be able to keep up with our pace. Their land isn't very good. I need a creative solution, and every time I try to come up with one, I see problems with it.
-Rob |
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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Followup message:
quote:
J -
One more thing. Well, two, actually. 
First, we've decided to trade Warrior Code away. To Monkey and to Python (assuming you want it). It looks like we're doing another tech-for-hut deal.
If you do want WC, I'm fine with selling it at 1/3 research cost or just agreeing to tack its research cost onto a future deal.
Second, an issue came up in our private forum, which I figured I would clarify with you and with Monkey:
I have been operating under the assumption that each team has exclusive rights to trade tech that they researched (or popped from huts) themselves. So the wheel, philo, etc., are yours to trade. We will not pass them on. Ditto in the reverse for CoL/WC/Mysticism for CoD, and Literature for Monkey (whenever they get around to finishing that one).
I vaguely recall us discussing this at some point, but I don't remember the specifics of the conversation... I suppose I should dig through our Python Contact thread and see (I will now), but it doesn't hurt to just make sure.
Anyway, let me know if we're approaching this from different angles, and also if you do want to do a Warrior Code deal, and if so, how you'd prefer to do it.
-Rob |
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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quote:
Rob,
Thank you. We are thinking what to do concerning Warrior Code. We don't have anything to trade at the moment and need our gold reserves to cover the deficit while researching at 100%. And we don't need it very much, too. What concerns the exclusive trade rights, well, except you we know only Monkey and it definitely doesn't look like they have anything to give in return anyway, so the trade limitation is fine with us.
Apropos Monkey... Our mages say, that Monkeys on our continent are a species threatened with extinction. They can't bear the increasingly ferrous air. Have you heard about that, too? Interested in details?
J.
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Oh my. Fascinating. My reply:
quote:
No iron for the Monkeys either, you say? Or have I totally misunderstood?
Anyway, as they say here "I'm all ears."
-Rob
p.s. Hmm, maybe that's why they were so interested in warrior code. |
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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Holy ****.
quote:
Rob,
you misunderstood the part about the iron, but I think you got the general idea. Monkeys are threatened with extinction, they have no future on our continent (or anywhere else, for that matter). We fart in their general direction.
Here's the plan: We (Python) immediately begin to build a road south. We're industrious and can do it fast. The road will go from Castle de Loimbard roughly southwest to the coast, and then straight south, over the mountains. Expect some traffic there in the near future. Once the road is done, we will build a city south of the jungle. It will serve as outpost and troop base. We expect the big Monkey chase to begin around 600BC. This way I think we have all chances to wipe them out.
We want you to join and hope you are interested. Will you be able to mobilize your forces within this timeframe? Do not worry about iron, we will share our deposit. We need some horses from you, too, since we have none. Although our Knights mostly use coconuts, in some special cases horses are useful. After the Monkeys are gone, we will share the continent fairly among us, which should give us room to breathe, good chances in the rest of the game and solve our resource problems.
It probably doesn't need to be mentioned, but please understand, that this is message is confidential.
J.
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quote:
Interesting. Very interesting.
My initial thoughts (this is just me, the moment I read your message):
1) Wow. To say it's bold doesn't do it justice.
2) Having gone out of my way to secure and maintain good relations with Monkey, I feel kind of bad about this.
3) How many turns between now and 600bc?
4) I agree that Monkey has been virtually useless in terms of research, but consider that their land sucks... what do you expect to get out of this? Further, though they're lagging badly, are two teams going to be able to keep up a good enough pace to match the others?
5) Speaking of that, I would think that dividing the continent between us would most likely involve you guys getting a FP (or palace rush/jump) down there, and allowing us to take the middle. Is that what you're thinking?
6) As for CoD troops, well, we do have 1 barracks city up and running, with another coming online soon. The plan for now was vet spears. But vet warriors for swordsman upgrade are possible.
7) If we do go ahead with this, clearly a horse-for-iron swap would be fair. ESPECIALLY if we get horseback riding from the hut we're about to pop. If we do, we can trade you guys horses so you can build chariots for horse upgrade, and we can build vet warriors for sword upgrade. When the time is right, we trade you HBR, and you give us iron, and BAM, we have an army.
8) I still feel kinda bad about this.
I'll take this back to my team and get back to you as soon as I can.
-Rob |
Holy ****ing ****.
Discuss.
-Arrian
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16-10-2003 17:56
got this from SR:
No, I'm not into it, I'm afraid. As you say, we've gone out of our way to establish good relations with monkey - including generous trading terms. Also, a bit of peaceful building in this game is just what the doctor ordered with all the intense war and diplomacy in the DG1.
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