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Drake Tungsten
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Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:29
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quote:
And you didn't answer the Roman question. The issue was why they retained a non-Latin language and other areas did not. |
quote:
Q7. Has Basque influenced the neighboring languages?
A7. Very little. Perhaps the chief reason Basque has survived is that the Romans had very little interest in the Basque Country and they largely left the Basques alone. As a result, the region was not romanized until very late. By the same token, Basque had little influence on the neighboring languages -- though Basque itself has borrowed thousands of words from Latin and its Romance descendants like Gascon and Castilian. In the Middle Ages, though, when the Basque-speaking Kingdom of Navarre was powerful, a number of Basque words were borrowed into local varieties of Spanish, including Castilian, but very few of these have survived. One which has survived is Castilian izquierdo `left (hand)', which is borrowed from the synonymous Basque ezker, or more precisely from an unrecorded Basque derivative *ezkerdo. |
http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/la...asque.faqs.html
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Were there other regions in RE like that? |
Wales, to a lesser extent.
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asleepathewheel
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listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:29
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Good Riddance I say.
(Did I read the thread, no)
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LDiCesare
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La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001
time: 05:29
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For those who wanted to know what the French pays basque is like, I don't have a mpa, but it's half a departement, which makes about 10,000 or 20,000 square kilometers, with two 'big' cities, Bayonne and Biarritz, and very little in terms of economy except for tourism.
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Just because you move to find a job doesn't mean you support union. |
Well, considering you would have problems finding a job in France if you weren't national (particularly in the administration), I guarantee you that many basques and particularly corsicans are very happy to be French.
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HershOstropoler
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The Basque part of France is much smaller than that. The whole Department Pyrenees Atlantiques is only about 8000 km2.
As for roman control: People tend to overestimate the degree of centralization. Most administrative and judicial business was done by the cities that controlled the surrounding area; in less urbanized areas it was essentially old tribal structures in the pagi. The control by imperial authorities was often quite indirect, especially in Spain if you consider that the Tarraconensis province covered about half of the peninsula (although it had subdivisions and was later devided).
So areas could keep "national" traditions. The degree of romanisation and its deepness varied a lot. Gaul, Hispania, the alpine regions and the western balkans were mostly romanised; it was much weaker in Britannia. North Africa was quite mixed; the Romans barely controlled the Berber areas, and in many rural areas people still spoke phoenician in the 4th and 5th century. Illyrian elements survived in the balkans. And the basques in Hispania.
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HershOstropoler
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The Romans were much better at that than modern nationalist regimes. They barely romanised by force; they used citizenship, cultural integration, settlers and foremost cities to romanise. Most people in the west took roman culture voluntarily, in a slow and long process. For my region, celtic names and clothing style are documented up into the 3rd century (ie about 200 years after formally becoming part of the empire, 250 after de facto being part of the part of the empire); the later, the more limited to rural areas. The greek eastern part of the Empe wasn't romanised at all.
The Basques weren't "independent", but they, like virtually all peoples, enjoyed a good deal of autonomy - as long as they stuck to their own local business.
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OliverFA
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Leeds, UK
Sep 2002
time: 06:29
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I am not surprised at your arguments. You don't give any real reason. You only do what the people like you know how to do: You accuse the other band to be worst than you. First, as has been appointed, even a biassed organization like AI has doubts about it. Second, Does this justify all the violence perpetred by the independentists?
Oh, and sadly Fez isn't right. The communists have a lot to say in the current situation, and they are even gulty. They, the smallest party in the basque parliament, are supporting all these assassins.
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OliverFA
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Leeds, UK
Sep 2002
time: 06:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Fez
We do what we must. |
But that's not right! Spain is no torturing neither using dirty methods with that terrorists. That's the usual propaganda. I challenge you to present real and unbiassed proves about that.
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OliverFA
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Leeds, UK
Sep 2002
time: 06:29
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This page is not right. There is no historic evidence of what they say. Navarra has never been part of the basque region, neither the 3 French departments. Of course that's a prove of how legitimate are their claims.
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OliverFA
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Leeds, UK
Sep 2002
time: 06:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Odin
YOU shouldn't be in this thread because the attack on your uncle makes you irrational. This sh!t is your idol Franco's fault, the basques DON'T TRUST YOU GUYS, DUH! |
Again I remind you that the majority of the basques want to remain Spanish. Does this mean that only a part of the basques are real basques?
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Originally posted by Odin
 You sound just like ignorant americans going "why do they hate us" after 9/11.  |
In fact that's related. Look ar you, defending the basques. What a curious relation! It is proven that ETA and Al-Qaeda have relations. Why? Because they are part of the same movement. No, they have almost nothing in common, but they have a very important thing in common: They hate capitalism, the freedom it brings and want to destroy the present state of the things, the established system. That's why they (and several other terrorist organizations around the world, Chechenia, Colombia, Phillipines, North Ireland, Corsica...) are related.
And yes, you are right. That's exactly like 9/11. They attack us and they acuse US of being the agressors. Amazin. Just amazing.
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I bet many are afraid of voting for independance because they are afraid of being shot by goon squads like during Franco's reigime, DUH! |
Who are these squads? The only squads that now exists are the ones that control the vote at the small villages, the ones that send letters to the national parties's members with the address of their children's schools, the ones that ask the basque companies for the "revolutionary tax" (a mafia-like way of acting) and many many more.
About Franco, that would deserve his own thread. Franco was a dictator. That's evident. But he was not a fascist but a conservative. Even more important, when the national side (not Franco, who by that time was just one of the generals at that side) attacked the Republic was in fact destroyed by the communists, which with the help of Moscow where planning to create the "Spanish Russia". (Something very similar to Chile, or to what Chavez is doing at Venezuela) That's sad to say, but Franco was the lesser evil.
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OliverFA
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Leeds, UK
Sep 2002
time: 06:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Fez
I am not saying "Why do they hate us"... in fact the Basque people want to stay with Spain. Did you know that 500,000 people in the Basque region protested against Basque seperatists? |
[IRONY]
Because Spanish Squads of Death forced them, of course...
[/IRONY]
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OliverFA
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Leeds, UK
Sep 2002
time: 06:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Odin
They were so isolated the romans didn't bother them. |
Again, that's propaganda and misinformation. Look at any Roman Empire story book and you will see they where part of the Tarraconensis province.
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TCO
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Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:29
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quote:
Originally posted by HershOstropoler
The Romans were much better at that than modern nationalist regimes. They barely romanised by force; they used citizenship, cultural integration, settlers and foremost cities to romanise. Most people in the west took roman culture voluntarily, in a slow and long process. For my region, celtic names and clothing style are documented up into the 3rd century (ie about 200 years after formally becoming part of the empire, 250 after de facto being part of the part of the empire); the later, the more limited to rural areas. The greek eastern part of the Empe wasn't romanised at all.
The Basques weren't "independent", but they, like virtually all peoples, enjoyed a good deal of autonomy - as long as they stuck to their own local business. |
I guess colonization might be the analogy here. Rather than Euro-border moving with ethnic cleansing, language training, church affect and all.
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26-07-2003 08:14
Spain IS insignificant. it has been insignificant ever since you lost your American colonies in the 1800's. 
That's the main reason the vote was so close, no one really understood sovereignty association, least of all the politicians. Even now Quebec gets a vastly disproportionate amount of federal aid, so you could say we have 'reluctant' Canadians.
That's silly stupid. Is like saying that someone has to behave in some way because it has a concrete surname. Would they be worst if they had been birth 300 km to the South?
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