26-07-2003 22:23									#31
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Tell that to latin america.

Tell that to the US.

	26-07-2003 22:32									#32
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara It makes some people rich. It makes a lot of people poor. All the Cubans have to do is look at Eastern Europe to see what will happen to them if they embrace the Bautistas and terrorists. And the Cuban part of Miami ain't all that rich (though better off than Little Haiti).

They are richer in Miami than in Cuba. capitalism works. Commie. I'll have the steak and eggs by the way. And lets stay to watch the music later.

	26-07-2003 23:48									#33
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Guess the cuban mafi...... ehhhh, sorry - exiles of course, exiles - will take over what their grandpa's left years ago.

Second: Claim Florida back as a part of Cuba......... (just another guess, afterall you read much about the former Cubans/Spanish being a major part of the population in many southern states of the US, so why not . Florida could be a fine place to start a campain ).

	26-07-2003 23:56									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Lonestar The Cuban Exiles will return.

Why would they want to return? Will they still be on welfare while in Cuba?

	26-07-2003 23:57									#35
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quote: Originally posted by TCO They are richer in Miami than in Cuba. capitalism works. Commie. I'll have the steak and eggs by the way. And lets stay to watch the music later.

I'll just say this, there's a big difference between something working, and surviving.

As for Cuba, it's future is uncertain, but I would think it is most likely that Castro's reforms will continue under new leadership.

	27-07-2003 00:18									#36
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Hopefully sometime in the future a new leadership can find a middle road, not completely embracing capitalism but at least making enough reforms towards a greater degree of democracy (as in, not having the same leader(s) in charge for 40+ years).

That could make it easier for another administration in the US to finally stop the embargo (something long overdue, admittedly).

	27-07-2003 00:18									#37
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara 3) Things will get much worse. The Party will fall, capitalism will return, and Cuba will become another Jamaica, only poorer.

I think this is the most realistic scenario. Well, Cubans are more educated than Jamaicans, but this will make no difference. On the contrary, if the country is predestined for certain fate (like e.g. being the bordel of America), excessive education is a liability, not an asset.

Also, Cuba is famous for its excellent medical care, but this will disappear in a matter of years after the regime change. Hell, I am too pessimistic about Cuba's future. And, as a Russkie, I certainly feel guilt that we had to abandon our friend like that.

	27-07-2003 00:21									#38
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When, er, I mean if, Castro dies and the country goes to hell, expect an armada of seagoing pickup trucks storming Miami Beach.

	27-07-2003 00:33									#39
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My predictions: when Castro dies, the party will have to begin major economic reforms ala China or Vietnam, perhaps also democratic reforms. Many Cuban exiles will want to return, but mostly the older ones, and they are not likely to be fuly welcomed, since many of them would go in expecting to get lands back that are under new owners now.

I don;t think there will be much violence after he is dead, though expect a great amount of genuine grief in Cuba, as much as some people here will be jumping up for joy: I seriously doubt thet exiles will get very far in trying to banish Castro from Cuban history or demonizing him: They will succeed in undoing the current marxist state, since it can not continue in its current economic state.

And Cuba will be mcuh richer than Jamaica or DR or such.

	27-07-2003 00:40									#40
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Of course, since Castro did a lot of good for the Cuban people, it'll be kind of hard to change that completely...problem is, he & his court have stayed in power long after their time was up, after their job was done....but yeah, GePap's right. Cuba probably won't end up like Jamaica or any other such country.

	27-07-2003 05:06									#41
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Chavez will move from Venezuela to Cuba, take his place and everything else will be the same

	27-07-2003 05:45									#42
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OK, since the opinions I seek havent surfaced, lets change the question slightly in light of GePaps post. Was Castro et al benficial for Cuba?

I would say that they were despite the communist claptrap that went along with it. They brought land reform etc, and overthrew the typical 'banana republic' mentality. With the right leadership after Castros demise, Cuba could very easily be the jewel of the Caribbean.

	27-07-2003 05:52									#43
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On the scales opf history, he is a plus. No, he hasn't been the most deadly dictator in even the Caribean, or any other such nonsense.

his accomplishments were setting up the foundations for a highly educated populace with (for a third world country) advanced medicines and biological sciences. He also did make Cuba fully "independent", in that it gave Cuba a direction of its own separate form that of the US.
The greatest fault was basically outlasting the Soviets...the last 13 years have been a waste, sicne the Revolution had doen all the good it has by then, and nothing of note has been achived in the last 13 years.

He will be seen certainly as the most important Cuban leader ever, for good or bad.

	27-07-2003 05:54									#44
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The island will sink

	27-07-2003 10:39									#45
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quote: Originally posted by TCO MAybe Cuba isn't either. Especially after the people are free to say their minds...

Cuba's not quite Iraq. You can get in **** for some stuff that's rightly considered free speech here, but if you want to tell an international TV crew that Castro needs to step down then you're free to do it. I've seen innumerable interviews with "Cubans on the street" where they say just that. And innumerable others where they say the opposite.

Go there for yourself. Oh, wait, you're not allowed.

	27-07-2003 10:41									#46
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quote: Originally posted by TCO Tell that to the US.

And? As I see it Cuba's doing pretty decently compared to such illustrious neighbours as Haiti, for insatnce.

Ranks probably somewhere in the middle of the road of LA for lifestyle if you're an average schmuck. A lot better if you're bottom of the barrel, a lot worse if you're top of the heap.

	27-07-2003 10:43									#47
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quote: Originally posted by TCO They are richer in Miami than in Cuba.

And mexicans are richer in Los Angeles than in Mexico City. Wonder why?

EDIT: changed LA to read Los Angeles, to avoid confusion with earlier usage of LA as Latin America

	27-07-2003 11:15									#48
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Copying my answers?

Not your answers, but my answers .

	27-07-2003 11:17									#49
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Yours lacked pizzazz, and can be interpreted in a number of different ways.

	27-07-2003 11:18									#50
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As always, Frogger pwnz everyone

	27-07-2003 16:07									#51
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH OK, since the opinions I seek havent surfaced, lets change the question slightly in light of GePaps post. Was Castro et al benficial for Cuba?

He was meanwhile the USSR was maintaining Cuba. Of course that was not because of his great leadership. But when the USSR had other more important problems to attend then the real effect of his policy could be seen without any mask.

	27-07-2003 19:54									#52
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse And mexicans are richer in Los Angeles than in Mexico City. Wonder why? EDIT: changed LA to read Los Angeles, to avoid confusion with earlier usage of LA as Latin America

Because we have a capitalist system with the rul of law.

	28-07-2003 06:26									#53
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quote: Originally posted by GePap My predictions: when Castro dies, the party will have to begin major economic reforms ala China or Vietnam, perhaps also democratic reforms.

"Ala China or Vietnam" won't work in Cuba. Different mentalities: life lovers and repressed workagolics need different ways to make it work.

	28-07-2003 06:59									#54
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When Castro croaks Cuba will return to being a beach front resort clogged full of American tourists who will gamble, drink to much, and prostitute far to many of the local women. Over all the Cuban people will live better though when the tyrant is gone.

	28-07-2003 07:59									#55
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quote: Originally posted by DanielXY well cuba is not exactly an economic disaster ... when you compare it to most of South America they do fairly well

Of course they "started" at a much higher standard of living than South America, but have lost most of that advantage in comparitive terms as their real incomes are lower than they were when Castro took over.

	28-07-2003 08:01									#56
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell They shoulda named Castro God instead of that African guy.

Do mean Highly Elastic, mon?

	28-07-2003 08:04									#57
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara It makes some people rich. It makes a lot of people poor. All the Cubans have to do is look at Eastern Europe to see what will happen to them if they embrace the Bautistas and terrorists. And the Cuban part of Miami ain't all that rich (though better off than Little Haiti).

As rich and poor are comparitive terms and not absolutes, one leads to the other. But the overall material wealth of a "capitalist" state will be vastly more than other states provided that the capitalists have enough human capital to exploit their freedoms economically.

	28-07-2003 08:08									#58
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quote: Originally posted by JCG Of course, since Castro did a lot of good for the Cuban people, it'll be kind of hard to change that completely...problem is, he & his court have stayed in power long after their time was up, after their job was done....but yeah, GePap's right. Cuba probably won't end up like Jamaica or any other such country.

He exchanged material wealth and a what may well have been by this time a leading position in the Caribean for poverty and nationalism. Way to go!

	28-07-2003 08:10									#59
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quote: Originally posted by OliverFA Chavez will move from Venezuela to Cuba, take his place and everything else will be the same

Actually, that doesn't sound that bad.

	28-07-2003 08:10									#60
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Cuba does all right internaly

it is in camparison with other nations that it does bad, and most of this is because of the US (sanctions and the like)

Jon Miller