30-08-2003 11:31									#151
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

The act of debugging should be called "Pest Removal System."

Or in our case, "Parker Removal System."

Also, removing any code I wrote will probably fix a lot too.

I can answer emails on writing IN slic, but you'll have to direct questions on C++ to either Pyaray or MrOgre because my coding style is what is known as 'kludge' in programmerish, or "hack" in writer's jargon.

Pyaray and MrOgre can attest to this: I am NOT a hacker. I couldn't break into a car with a 10-lb bag of nuts and bolts and a suitably long trajectory arc.

	30-08-2003 19:49									#152
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by st_swithin Also, removing any code I wrote will probably fix a lot too.

And will probably breack lot of stuff, too. Let's see but I doubt it is so easy.

-Martin

	31-08-2003 09:35									#153
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Just don't break a leg, see?

	31-08-2003 16:38									#154
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Peter Triggs Remark: Pyaray's already replied before I had a chance to post this. In order to get a better idea of what to expect I've been browsing the sources of some of the open source games on the market. CTP2's code can't be any more confusing than some of the stuff I've seen.

Even the Freeciv code base? Their LXR source code browser is quite nifty if tou just want to look at the code. http://www.freeciv.org/lxr/

	04-09-2003 00:58									#155
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Anyone have an insider update on the ETA for the source code?

Are they still at the comment review stage by the legal department or have they moved past that now?

	04-09-2003 09:13									#156
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Call Activision Customer Service. They'll have to pass the info on.

	08-09-2003 17:06									#157
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I'm thrilled to hear of the source code release.
Put me up for programming ASAP!

I use VC++ 6.0.

I also can do documentation because I love to write (you should see my code comments for a real horror show )

I also think that the use of a cvs is necessary in order to collaborate efficiently.

	09-09-2003 06:40									#158
	Get a bigger avatar today!

We documented the heck out of the code. Make sure you ask ATVI's CS for it, because we spent a lot of time writing that stuff, and if someone WANTS to read it, they should have unlimited access, especially if you can add to it.

Ask for Mark Lamia. He can get that stuff for you.

	09-09-2003 08:15									#159
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by DDowell I also think that the use of a cvs is necessary in order to collaborate efficiently.

Yeah, well, let's set up one at sourceforge.net or berlios.de , they offer heaps of services for free.

Oh, and finally we'll be able to port CtP to OpenBSD

	09-09-2003 08:25									#160
	Suffering from ads?

But... the most important question... under what licence is it going to be released? BSD-style or "shared-source", something else?

	11-09-2003 06:41									#161
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

BSD. If it's anything else, it's not even gonna get a CHANCE to work.

Trust me on this one; MrOgre would've wanted it that way.

BTW, when was the last time anyone say MrOgre, anyway?!?

	11-09-2003 16:38									#162
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: BTW, when was the last time anyone say MrOgre, anyway?!?

He hasn't been online (on Apolyton) for over a month (and his last post is almost 6 weeks old)

	12-09-2003 19:13									#163
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Let's hope that we will hear something from him soon.

Good or bad

	12-09-2003 22:25									#164
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Just a small update, I have heard from MrOgre more recently than most of you. The last update I had about this was on Monday, and he wasn't quite done yet. He's been really busy. But it has not been abandoned.

Pyaray

	12-09-2003 22:34									#165
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Thanks for the update!

I guess it's good news... at least we can assume, thus far, that everything is still moving normally...

	13-09-2003 00:52									#166
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In theory...

	13-09-2003 15:34									#167
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Pessimist .

	13-09-2003 18:07									#168
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Still on the work.

Good news Pyaray

	14-09-2003 04:03									#169
	Inflate your Upload Space

I like to think of myself as a realistic kind of person. Expect the worst and laughingly hope for the best.

	14-09-2003 22:58									#170
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Well if the main source code still needs some time, what about the map plugins first, so we could start to improve the map genarator a little bit.

-Martin

	03-10-2003 16:12									#171
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I haven't read through a lot of the thread, but Martin mentions the map generation. The map generation is the bit that interests me the most. I would like to study it in isolation - time permitting - and perhaps post some code suggestions for improving it.

The sort of thing that would improve map generation would be various additional options so that players can have more than just Earth-style maps. There's two directions we can go here: maps for planets that are not Earthlike but are realistic, and maps that are not realistic at all but are designed for balanced gameplay.

For non-Earthlike maps, we could have maps for planets that are not Earth, but still have a fair degree of climactic realism for the chosen configuration. For example, on a planet with an 80-degree axial tilt, there would be ice caps at the Equator, not the poles. These sort of options require some research into climate systems, so we can place the ice, deserts, jungles, etc in their correct locations for the various configurations.

For gameplay-oriented maps, we would discard all realism and instead have maps chosen for their gameplay value. These kind of maps would find particular application for multiplayer games because each player has a starting position that is much more similar to other players than a standard random map can provide. For example, such a map could be configured to provide a number of identically-sized islands scattered over the map.

	03-10-2003 17:46									#172
	Tired of ads?

I'd also like maps where I can pick what terrains will appear, like checking the blocks of desert, mountain etc but no swamp. Atleast for scenario design.

	03-10-2003 18:22									#173
	Remove this text

BSD licence? Makes sense, but I'm sure they'll want more strings attached.

Personally I prefer Berlios rather than SF.net, but in the long run it doesn't really matter, as long as cvs is sane.

	12-10-2003 06:59									#174
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Hi,
Its great news that the CTP II code is being released.

I'm making an original commercial game based on a God / RTS style format , and I have many ideas which I can't put it my game as it would take too long and fall outside the game design parameters.
I am a professional Games and 3d graphics simulation Programmer. I'm very much addicted to civilisation style games, and love civilisation 3, but I haven't played CTP yet.. so first we need to compile the source code so everyone can play for free! ( depending on if the publishers would want the Executable program released .. but this would happen anyhow ) .

I would like to help with this project, in making ideas to expand this game, and in programming code additions/corrections.
I'm not ready to commit to your project yet, until I can see the source code and how much work would be needed, and till theres a good team put together.

We need to work out the aims for what could be done with the CTP 2 source code,

1. Use it to create a detailed scenario for a specific game period - maybe a science fiction or fantasy game or simulating a realperiod in history.

2. Make a full game out of this. (which could be sold or made free source release/free publish.) We could attempt to make the ultimate god game, with a more detailed or more flexible game engine, perhaps extending the game period from 20,000 bc till 10,000 ad to include the Ice Age (the most recent one) and up to colonisation of other planets and other stars.

I have many great ideas which i've developed over a few years that I would like to see implemented, if not just to see what does and dosen't work. I think Civ 3 has some of the best features i've seen , and links them together effectively, but there are the old civ 2 features and some Good CTP features which can be used too.. but not copied, just used for inspiration to develop into the next generation.

I'd like to make a detailed trading system, where resources had an intrinsic value (an amount people would pay for them to use them) , which would be bought by a group of people.. maybe a government to build into products, which would then be sold onto the public or anyone who could afford it.
Market values could affect the price of things, with more iron mined meaning its market price would drop.. and marketplaces could allow it to be bought cheaply.

It would be nice to make a realistic millitary, with proper support systems , where trucks are needed to supply your armies in the field, and some units get damaged or tired out if they are outside their support range. Morale levels could be included as another variable (characteristic) for each unit.
There could be a lot more types of unit made too.. some with new functions, like medics, saboteurs, researchers, sniper assasins.

Perhaps a historical simulator would work well, where events are triggered to recreate history, like with Germany becoming fascist and starting conquering poland etc.. though the player might mess this up if he decided to change history.

Admiral PJ - Peter
petezeus2017@hotmail.com

	12-10-2003 09:51									#175
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Admiral PJ 1. Use it to create a detailed scenario for a specific game period - maybe a science fiction or fantasy game or simulating a realperiod in history.

The CPT modding ability is so high that such a thing is very easy to be added to the game. Check out the Alexander scenario. You will be amazing about its detailed. Not to mention mods like Dale's "World at War" mod that cuts out all history before the 1900's and the future stuff. And adding lots of stuff in the time period it is focused.

One of the things CTP series is most known about it is the modding ability. You should check it.

quote: Originally posted by Admiral PJ 2. We could attempt to make the ultimate god game, with a more detailed or more flexible game engine, perhaps extending the game period from 20,000 bc till 10,000 ad to include the Ice Age (the most recent one) and up to colonisation of other planets and other stars.

I bet anything you want that 90% of your idea to this age can be added to the game without messing up the source code. Again the modding ability.

Although we are all hoping to have space back to CTP2 with the source code. Colonising other planets would be amazing!!!

quote: Originally posted by Admiral PJ I have many great ideas which i've developed over a few years that I would like to see implemented, if not just to see what does and dosen't work.

Are primeary goal is the bug freeing. But we all are dying to add new features to the game.

quote: Originally posted by Admiral PJ I'd like to make a detailed trading system,

This is something i want to see in CTP2. The trade system is its weakes point of CTP2 as i see. We must come up with something better.

quote: Originally posted by Admiral PJ It would be nice to make a realistic millitary, with proper support systems , where trucks are needed to supply your armies in the field, and some units get damaged or tired out if they are outside their support range.

Probably possible to add through SLIC (Check for details of this powerful modding tool). Come with the idea and we will possibly be able to add without messing the source code.

quote: Originally posted by Admiral PJ Morale levels could be included as another variable (characteristic) for each unit.

Great idea. It sure is possible to SLIC but we will fall in the incapability to add new UI element. Lets hope the Source code team make the changes in the UI possible through SLIC. Still we can already start writting a SLIC code for it. Making it a virtual(unable to see) unit characteristic.

quote: Originally posted by Admiral PJ There could be a lot more types of unit made too.. some with new functions, like medics, saboteurs, researchers, sniper assasins.

A medic unit!!! how come we never thought about that Get a CTP2 copy, learn SLIC and we can write a code for it

quote: Originally posted by Admiral PJ Perhaps a historical simulator would work well, where events are triggered to recreate history, like with Germany becoming fascist and starting conquering poland etc.. though the player might mess this up if he decided to change history.

I wont say the word "SLIC" again not to sound too repetitive.

	12-10-2003 15:10									#176
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quote: Originally posted by Admiral PJ It would be nice to make a realistic millitary, with proper support systems , where trucks are needed to supply your armies in the field, and some units get damaged or tired out if they are outside their support range. Morale levels could be included as another variable (characteristic) for each unit. There could be a lot more types of unit made too.. some with new functions, like medics, saboteurs, researchers, sniper assasins.

I don't agree with you, CtP2 is a strategical game not a tactical game, it is not a wargame and IMO the current military system is adapted to its scope.

	12-10-2003 17:49									#177
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin I don't agree with you, CtP2 is a strategical game not a tactical game

One of the most important aspects of STRATEGY is to plan for the supply of your troops (at least in the modern age).


Tactics - the use of ones military forces (on the battlefield) to achieve your nations goals.

Strategy - the use of ones resources (military, economic etc) to achieve your nations goals.

Too many people mix these two up...

	12-10-2003 18:36									#178
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by DDowell Strategy - the use of ones resources (military, economic etc) to achieve your nations goals.

This is exactly what I am saying in my post and this is exactly what CtP2 is doing. I was considering the scale of the game when I wrote about strategy (all those that have played pen & paper wargames know what I am talking about), not about the concepts themselves. If you consider its scale, CtP2 is a strategical game and when a turn is lasting between 1 and 20 years I don't see the point to bother about too many details or too specific units. But this is only my opinion...

quote: Too many people mix these two up...

I prefer this definition of Strategy if you mind:

1 - Definition of the objectives
2 - Implementation of your forces
3 - Concentration of your forces on a point of your opponent's organization

	12-10-2003 19:51									#179
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quote: Originally posted by Admiral PJ so first we need to compile the source code so everyone can play for free!

If you want to make the game playable for free, then - even assuming the liscence on the source allows it - someone will have to duplicate all the artwork and text, because otherwise that will still be available only to those who have a copy of the game.

	12-10-2003 20:02									#180
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

And I thought it wasn't the aim to release everything to the public. In fact I still remember that one tiny argument for Activion (ok from our side) to release the game was the possbility that they could sell some more copies then.

-Martin