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:) Smiley
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USCA, Berkeley
Feb 2001
time: 21:29
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Another problem is that the kids themselves often don't have any encouragement to learn. They don't want to get off their #@$@# and pull themselves up.
A friend told me how US students in relation to the industrialized world are in the middle of the pack in fourth grade, near the bottom in 8th, and at the bottom in 12th.
The US middle school system is a colossal failure in education, as there is no motivation at all to do well, since regardless of your performance you go to the same high school. In high school some people start to shape up, but for many it's kind of late to catch up on three lost years.
American government propaganda is also pointing in the wrong direction. When the economy went bad a couple years back, the US government encouraged consumer spending to boost it. Comparitively, faced with the same situation the Taiwanese government implemented a national education program to teach everyone English. In Taiwan a "recession" is when economic growth drops below 5% a year.
True, the Asian meritocracy system does have severe shortcomings, and without a doubt the average childhood there is much harder than that in the USA, but 22 years down the line, when people enter the workforce, you see the results. Also, the system is much more egalitarian as the best schools and universities are public. High schools compete with each other across counties for the best students. Failure cases are rarely caused by lack of money, instead, lack of effort. It is even said that the wealthier students are the worse they do, as they have the money to waste time on recreation. For reasons I don't fully understand, perhaps due to early conditioning, the children their have a much higher tolerance for hardship, despite a decent standard of living.
What is most interesting though is a series of social feedback loops that encourages parents to do a good job. This began hundreds of years ago in imperial civil service examinations, where those who did well would be given well paid government jobs, and benefits would extend to the family. Unlike in Western society, inheritance works up, not down, the family tree. The same works for control over children- traditionally the grandparent has the final say, not the parent. The desire to maintain a good family name also feeds into this.
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Soul Survivor
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UChicago
May 2003
time: 05:29
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What people have been ignoring so far is genetics......
If you are born with the right genes you will succeed no matter what, some people no matter what will never be able to become lawyers, bankers etc because they simply lack the mental capacity. The higher up you start the less intelligence you need to succeed. Luck of the draw...........
Also about private vs public education, the local/state governments control the funding level for each school. But property taxes still pay for the majority of the education costs. More property value = more money for school, this essentially creates a private public school system. Property taxes add up to as much as $20-25k per year, making it impossible for many people to move to the district, also out of town tution is $10-15k per year. What other districts do is to pool resources with other schools (usually forced to by local governments) and instead of having one good school and three poor schools you end up with four slightly less poor schools. Money is always the issue, the state government can't possibly make up the difference if one school district can afford to spend $16-17k per year per student because of property taxes and another spends $6-7k per year per student.
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29-07-2003 04:26
Wow, Odin, don't hold back. Care to extrapolate? By the way, I am not a libertarian... Also, we are just having a discussion... no need for the attacks...
if the libertarians implemented thier ideas the rich would get richer and the poor get poorer because $$$ buys oppertunity, as in the school example. the libertarian model eventually leads to revolution as the poor slaughter the rich. 
My mom has a degree in small business but we are stuck living from paycheck to paycheck so we can't afford to start one up. we won't be able to take out a loan until we pay off our house. 
I don't want no patronizing by a person who got lucky with advertising. 
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