14-08-2003 06:05									#181
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quote: Originally posted by yavoon well I figure if I ever get tired of the grind. I could sell my stuff, get a nest egg. move to norway pickup welfare. sure I couldn't fly aroudn the world, but I could drive places! and there are cute women up there right? lotsa beer. lil cold but I'll manage.

Women sure, beer you'll have to go abroad for (expensive!! otherwise), but they're pretty harsh on "parasitic" immigrants, at least rhetoric-wise, in both Norway and Denmark. As a wealthy American or one already with a job in either country, you could probably show up on the doorstep and they'd let you in, else it's the boot, sorry.

	14-08-2003 06:05									#182
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka yavoon, I don't think it's that simple to come in and start picking up welfare . If it was, then we'd be full of foreigners doing it. If you're serious about it, it would give you a good start to a) learn the language at least so you can survive b) learn whole lots of stuff about the country you're going in, they always like it when you know a lot about them c) try to get connections there before going, internet is now good tool for that.. you never know who does what and can help you out, naturally because you're such a nice guy, you'll return that favour nicely d) learn the laws and the rules about this, so you can find what suits you e) get yourself that nest egg. Helps when you have some money, don't come broke f) if possible, it's best to have a job ready. They'll be able to help you out with lots of stuff like a place to live or at least give you advices. People like you because you are not coming to spend anyones money, but working hard and contributing to the society. Those are few things that will help you along the way.

no pt going there if I have to work! =D. and yes I'm told that immigrating to scandinavia is just not bloody likely to be doable.

	14-08-2003 06:09									#183
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quote: Originally posted by Kitschum Women sure, beer you'll have to go abroad for (expensive!! otherwise), but they're pretty harsh on "parasitic" immigrants, at least rhetoric-wise, in both Norway and Denmark. As a wealthy American or one already with a job in either country, you could probably show up on the doorstep and they'd let you in, else it's the boot, sorry.

I could go commando and make beer in my bathtub. america lets millionaires in automatically. tho I guess they check if ur a terorrist now!

	14-08-2003 06:09									#184
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yavoon, well learn the rules of what is the minimum amount of job you have to do before you can get on regular welfare . But it's not easy, because you're not citizen, but as an American I think you get away with most stuff as you'll not be seen as an exploiter automatically.

	14-08-2003 06:13									#185
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka yavoon, well learn the rules of what is the minimum amount of job you have to do before you can get on regular welfare . But it's not easy, because you're not citizen, but as an American I think you get away with most stuff as you'll not be seen as an exploiter automatically.

well the idea is to become a citizen. its too sketchy if I'm just on perpetual greencard. I need more security. never know when u'll just decide to kick us all out.

	14-08-2003 06:13									#186
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quote: Originally posted by Kitschum So come along, as an EU citizen you shouldn't have much of a problem immigrating.

I don't know the language... otherwise it'd be an alluring prospect.

And who'd want to live off welfare? I know I wouldn't.

Pekka, nice idea about the movie We could get the European Commission to fund it, get a kick start. Hell it's actually a brilliant idea for a book too!

	14-08-2003 06:15									#187
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 I don't know the language... otherwise it'd be an alluring prospect. And who'd want to live off welfare? I know I wouldn't. Pekka, nice idea about the movie We could get the European Commission to fund it, get a kick start. Hell it's actually a brilliant idea for a book too!

wow thats pretty unadventurous. considering what ppl do to come to america. to have just the language barrier stop u from something easy seems a lil weenie.

have some backbone.

	14-08-2003 06:16									#188
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Poor troll.
However learning Swedish now without anything concrete would be a waste of time I'm afraid.

And America? Yuck no thanks!

	14-08-2003 06:17									#189
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Poor troll. However learning Swedish now without anything concrete would be a waste of time I'm afraid.

u learn faster w/ emersion anyway.

	14-08-2003 06:18									#190
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 I don't know the language... otherwise it'd be an alluring prospect.

Free lessons included: Svenska för invandrare (SFI). It's on the house. Besides, you'd learn quickly while working.

quote: And who'd want to live off welfare? I know I wouldn't.

You'd have to work or study obviously, but you could enjoy our smooth beaurocracy, our social contract, relative meritocracy, our clean streets and nature (hope you like trees!).

	14-08-2003 06:18									#191
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yavoon,
Yeah, the point is to actually have a plan and a job for you to learn the language from scratch.

	14-08-2003 06:20									#192
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paiktis, the more I think of it, I think it's a kick ass idea too for a book or movie. Just find too completely different people (or they can be pretty much the same too, but then it would be different kind of a movie or book) that both are interesting doing others lives. There could be cultureshocks, both finding out what bastards they are, how different or same they are in reality, funny moments when trying to hide the fact that they are not really the person they claim to be.. it can have many things. We only need to figure out what would be the characters like and their places like, and then make up a story what kind of different situation they get in, and what kind of observations they make. They can also change places for good, or just for a short time like let's say one year.
Possibilities are endless..

	14-08-2003 06:22									#193
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 yavoon, Yeah, the point is to actually have a plan and a job for you to learn the language from scratch.

like I said. emersion is quicker anyway.

	14-08-2003 06:23									#194
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ALso it could be story about you and me. To put it to extreme, you'd be complaining about how good we have, and I'd be like 'no way! We can trade places anytime' or 'I can survive on your place'.. And then they both find it very hard to survive.. what ever, there are many directions it can take.

	14-08-2003 06:29									#195
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Kitschum, thanks for the invitation, we'll see you never know

I just find it a bit unrealistic to pack up and go to a new country and start from scratch when you don't know the language or don't have any kind of plan or direction.

Then again, a friend of mine did just that, in Holland. So you never know He has found through the Comet EU program a quite nice job in Computer Sciences in Ultrecht.

But I guess for abroad, based on my knowledge and since my job is heavily related to language (communications and mass media) UK, France, Belgium are far more accessible to me, at least now.

Pekka, it's actually a kick ass idea! It could be a huge hit if done properly me thinks!

	14-08-2003 06:35									#196
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Sure, problem is I don't know how to write, and I think you're not professional screenwriter or writer either . But we can always dream.

If I was a business man and knew those things, I'd already have my own porn productions, making this movie and book happening, have my own weapons design company AND experience travelling company. Now that I look at it, damn I'm pretty evil man. Porn, guns...

	14-08-2003 06:36									#197
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quote: Originally posted by Che Gueverra Haagen-Daaz

Haagen Daz is an American product. The founder made up the name, hoping it would sound Scandinavian. Guess the strategy worked.

	14-08-2003 06:40									#198
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Except Daaz is not Scandinavinan at all. Maybe Dutch? Only Americans thinks is sounds like Scandinavian . Nah, it sounds a bit I admit, if someone said it was Scandinavian, I'd believe it.

	14-08-2003 06:43									#199
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Pekka,
Actually I could give it a shot, would have to be in Greek though (other can translate it for the international markets ) Would need your permission though (since you thought it up ) and lots of info about Finland

Erm, there's also the problem of me becoming blonde and blue eyed or you becoming dark haired and brown eyed! But we could make the main characters reach some middle ground in apperance from the beggining.
Lol... this could actually be fun, and God knows I have lots of spare time But to write you have to relate and I don't think I can do it without having actually lived in Finland. I could do it for Belgium though, where I've actually lived for a good chunk of my life. Now if I could only find the tenacity to follow it through Of course all rights and profits would be divided equally

	14-08-2003 06:49									#200
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Sure, write if you want to, no problem. Just promise me if you make it, you'll take me with you . When you sell the movie rights and the script, you'll be taking me with you as your working partner . Feel free..

I don't think it's a good idea to bring Finland to it though. Take some other country.. maybe that Belgium? But are Greece and Belgium really that different? Well I bet they are different enough.. just do a lot of groundwork on things, so you have lots to work on and you can choose the best things you then write about, it shouldn't be too fictional about what are customs in other countries etc...
Profits are not divided equally if you write it naturally, you see, I'm not that socialist . You work for it, you earn what you get.. but when you start working for the movie, get me into the production too..

	14-08-2003 06:52									#201
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If you are succesful about making interesting story, and some director or folks are interested (I trust it would be euro movie), then I bet you could actually get EU support for it, because naturally it's kind of a cultural film . I wish you success, keep me posted if you start doing it, or if you run out of ideas, I'll be pleased to help you with it.

	14-08-2003 06:54									#202
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quote: Sure, write if you want to, no problem. Just promise me if you make it, you'll take me with you . When you sell the movie rights and the script, you'll be taking me with you as your working partner . Feel free.. I don't think it's a good idea to bring Finland to it though. Take some other country.. maybe that Belgium? But are Greece and Belgium really that different? Well I bet they are different enough.. just do a lot of groundwork on things, so you have lots to work on and you can choose the best things you then write about, it shouldn't be too fictional about what are customs in other countries etc... Profits are not divided equally if you write it naturally, you see, I'm not that socialist . You work for it, you earn what you get.. but when you start working for the movie, get me into the production too..

Pekka,
It's a deal

Argh, but youre right, Greece and Belgium are not so hugely different... To achieve maximum contrast it would have to be between two EU countries that have the most "distance" between them as possible.
A problem which presents two possible solutions:

1) Finding out as much as possible about Finland and then try to fake it

2)Compromise on the "distance" issue and go for Belgium and Greece.

Guess, I'll have to get back to you about that. Must think it through

	14-08-2003 06:57									#203
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka If you are succesful about making interesting story, and some director or folks are interested (I trust it would be euro movie), then I bet you could actually get EU support for it, because naturally it's kind of a cultural film . I wish you success, keep me posted if you start doing it, or if you run out of ideas, I'll be pleased to help you with it.

Will do

OK, got to go now. Got to think it though Of course we'll keep in touch.

	14-08-2003 07:00									#204
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Yeah just think it through.. there are many options, and I think many of them would work. Finland is completely different, sure, but I think it wouldn't be that interesting for someone to read/watch, because they don't know anything about Finland to begin with. Either they would love it, because they see something completely different, or they would not like it so much, because they don't get it. But if you decide to take Finland as the other country, you can always mail me and ask anything and I'll provide you inside information and try to explain them so they seem authentic. And you can use other Finns too, they always are happy to answer because they love it when someone takes an interest to our country. But every scene is bound to be another Aki Kaurismäki moment, no one speaking to you etc The guy would get pretty lonely here! he could even live in the countryside! Oh my God!! He would literally not get to know ANYONE and be miserable . Then give him some sketchy job the other dude did, like a farmer or some other sick job. Or dark city life. What ever, everything is possible. Think of the options.. they are almost endless, and if you get them right, then you can't fail.

	14-08-2003 07:06									#205
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paiktis22: Sure, think about it. The doors will always be open for our fellow Europeans...

quote: Originally posted by Pekka Except Daaz is not Scandinavinan at all. Maybe Dutch? Only Americans thinks is sounds like Scandinavian . Nah, it sounds a bit I admit, if someone said it was Scandinavian, I'd believe it.

Not many z in Scandinavian languages though. I heard Häagen was an adaption of Copenhagen. Except of course the city's name in Danish is København.

Good luck on the script or book both of you! I'm going to sleep.

	14-08-2003 07:08									#206
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Me too. Sleepy time. Later.

	14-08-2003 07:12									#207
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My anscestors came from SE Norway (dad's side) and old Prussia, near Dresden (mom's side). I have always wanted to se my relaives in Norway (Seljset, Selseth in the states), and Germany (Schnachschieder). I really want to live in Oslo.

	14-08-2003 07:32									#208
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quote: Häagen-dazs is American!

And so is Saab (GM) and Volvo (Ford), strictly speaking. I'm guessing American institutional investors own a lot of Nokia too...

The way that Scandinavia and Finland compete is by spending a large portion of their econonomies on product R&D. God help them if they have to compete on price.

But since Nokia represents such a large proportion of Finland's economy, for instane, if Nokia gets hit by commodity competition, then Finland is toast. Like a much worse version of California at present.

	14-08-2003 09:25									#209
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Pekka,
What a sad story dude.
It's too bad that you're living in such screwed society, but I know how to help you. We will help you man, trust us.
I think we should invade Finland at once and bring a real socialism there.
When we'll withdraw after a coule of years ( decades? centuries!!!) you'll be never whining about your modern system again.

	14-08-2003 09:26									#210
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Just watch out for Finnish ski troops