04-10-2003 04:39									#121
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Take note and don't underestimate the effect of our first settler-plant at Nevermore, though:

GCA is reacting to OUR strategy, rather than vice versa. Many, many generals and academics, from Sun Tzu on up, agree on one thing:

If you are doing the acting, you are far, far more likely to win than if you are doing the REacting.

Perhaps we should come up with a plan for continuing to force them to react to us, when we reach "Turtleopolis."

	04-10-2003 04:48									#122
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Further settlers could still speed us on our way.

They rip a whole in the road. We advance with our stack including a settler into the hole. The next turn we pop the city, and have the use of the adjacent road tile to shoot forward adjacent to their next city.

	04-10-2003 05:52									#123
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as most of you probably know, i got my PTW only weeks ago, and had been reading the manuals and trying out the game.

One of the new improvement compared to Civ III is "Outpost". The manual says : Outposts help eliminate fog of war by revealing sections of the map surrounding them. After you discover Masonary, you can order Workers to build an Outpost anywhere inside your territory or in neutral territory. Outposts have a sight range of 2 on flat land, three on hills and four on mountains. If an Outposts fall into the territory of another civilization, the Outpost is destroyed. When a Worker builds an Outpost, the Worker is lost.

Base on what it says, building Outpost is something we can consider, esp if it gives sight range of 4. What do you guys think ?

	04-10-2003 07:16									#124
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Outposts are really not that good. There's plenty of other stuff we can do with our Workers that will be far more useful than Outposts.


Dominae

	04-10-2003 07:47									#125
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I agree with Dominae, and there are far better things to do with our workers. Besides we should be advancing qwuikly enough to render them not so helpful anyway. If however, they turtle all the way, we might consider one to view GCA cities so that our troops can hang back out of danger and amass for a final assault.

	04-10-2003 12:40									#126
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Outposts cost too much for their uses. Population is one of the main forms of power in this game. There would be room for such a game tactic if the costs were somewhat lower.

	04-10-2003 14:18									#127
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I make the following recomendations to the MoW:

Move 2NM's, 4 MI's, along with WWNN to 4 of IDG. (I don't want GCA to be able to cut that road. Plus, those units on the raod will be able to advance on the road after the units at 8 of RO take the city or GCA abandons it; so maybe more units than I have stated are called for here in this case.)


Move the rest of AGA/B to 8 of RO. (GCA will likey fold on this city as well. I expect them to fight for Algalord however.)


Move Beta to kill the Barb 4-1 of Nevermore. (We need to keep roads intact.)


Get a unit, MI likely to 4-1-2 of Nevermore (Rubble of old Elucidium/Rye) to see if GCA has any units haging out around there.


Gather AGC in and towards Nevermore.

	04-10-2003 17:05									#128
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Outposts currently give the same sight range as a unit standing there would; they're broken. In the case of a mountain, I think their range is 3, but not 4.

Currently.

	04-10-2003 21:24									#129
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Orders in the turnthread updated for the turn.

AGA and AGB will continue moving south with N02 Mao being detached to the new AGC which will be a small force used to advance on IDG. The new AGC will contain 3 MIs, 2 NMs and a Catapult.

	04-10-2003 21:41									#130
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Why don't we sent the warriors to scout IDG and RO before making any critical plans regarding the larger stacks? I'd think where we put the larger stacks will likely be dependant upon the intelligence we gather from scouting.

	04-10-2003 21:45									#131
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WWNN can scout out IDG 4, but he'll no doubt end up in the big Warrior tank in the sky.

	04-10-2003 22:55									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Orders in the turnthread updated for the turn. AGA and AGB will continue moving south with N02 Mao being detached to the new AGC which will be a small force used to advance on IDG. The new AGC will contain 3 MIs, 2 NMs and a Catapult.

Would it not be wiser to move our force se onto that hill north of Random outpost. There the NM have defense of 4.5 and with the numbers we have, GCA couldn't hurt our forces much unless they used a large percentage of their swords. also this way anyforces that go after AGC will have a chance of getting hit as they pass.
Aggie

	04-10-2003 23:06									#133
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quote: Originally posted by Aggie Would it not be wiser to move our force se onto that hill north of Random outpost. There the NM have defense of 4.5 and with the numbers we have, GCA couldn't hurt our forces much unless they used a large percentage of their swords. also this way anyforces that go after AGC will have a chance of getting hit as they pass.

Yes I know. I only meant "south" as in the general direction we would be heading, not the exact tile we would be moving to this turn. In the orders it says to move 3 (SE) onto the hill.

	05-10-2003 00:16									#134
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Dooh!!!, I see it now. I figured thats what you meant.
Aggie

	05-10-2003 05:57									#135
	War Turn Report: Turn 3 (124) Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

More burning of everything in sight by GCA. Chances are that Random Outpost and probably IDG will be piles of rubble next turn. Either that or they may try to make a stand at RO.

AGA/B is in position to launch an assault on RO next turn should they decide to stand and fight. RO dropped 1 population last turn, which may mean they just popped Walls. We have 5 Catapults, 13 MIs and, if necessary, 6 NMs and 2 Warriors to attack with.

Currently WWNN threatens an empty IDG from an unroaded jungle tile. To prevent its capture GCA will either have to kill the Warrior and sacrifice a unit to do so, garrison the city with at least one Spearman or raze the city. Should they try to keep the city AGC will be in position to attack it 2 turns from now.

Workers Yo and Rah will be in position to start rebuilding the road heading south in 2 turns. It will be 4 turns starting with 124 before the road between Nevermore and RO is reconnected.

Reinforcements are heading steadily south. Within the next few turns 7 MIs, 5 Horsemen, 2 Catapults and 3 NMs will be joining the Army Groups.

With such an influx coming soon our push south will pause after the capture of RO. We will then march on Algalord with over 20 MIs, 8 Catapults, 5 Horsemen and 10 NMs. GCA will be unable to stop such a large force as it smashes through Algalord towards Catchopolis. Knowing this to be the case we should be wary of GCA trying to sneak a force behind our main army since they will probably realize they cannot compete with our sheer power.

	05-10-2003 08:26									#136
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I got Bootstoots (the current CFC player) to do an investigation of Random Outpost for free, just so we can do a bit of extra planning. The fact that we just gave him a huge map probably helped convince him too.

RO has a garrison of 1 vet Spear and 1 vet Horse. This means that everything else is near Algalord or beyond. It's currently building a Settler with 1 turn left and not growing... which means they're going to disband the city and no doubt pillage a road or two with their Horsemen.

GCA is also at 90% tax, 10% science and a treasury of 155 gold.

	05-10-2003 09:04									#137
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That's some excellent intel.

Not sure if it changes our plans much, but it at least gives us some peace of mind.


Dominae

	05-10-2003 09:07									#138
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Not bad!! I had a hunch they'd be disbanding, but that almost confirms it. We'll probably see IDG gone next turn too.

BTW, I definitely agree that we should be wary of them trying to sneak some forces north while we're heading south. Let's get some lookouts around if possible.

	05-10-2003 09:48									#139
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I take it that CFC hasn't declared war on GCA yet. What is the story with them, I thought they had that massive 2 MI 1 Pike army on the march.

	05-10-2003 10:52									#140
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If they are wise, I believe they will make their stand at Algalord. If they pull back to Catchopolis, we will be able to approach the city on hills (NW of their Capital). When attacking Algalord, there is nothing but flat lands (non-defensive bonus tiles) almost all the way around it.

	05-10-2003 14:26									#141
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I knew they would not attempt to hold RO. It makes no sense for them because they lack the units to do so. GCA is not only weak to us, they are very weak! GCA's only hope is to contact another Civ and get emergency help, even that won't prevent our armies from rolling over them, though it might cost us a few more units. GCA will not likely start our GA for us, it will be up to us if and when we decide we want it during this war. GCA might even start to pull some of its forces from it's borders with CFC. We shall have to ask for more intel from them on that matter.

	05-10-2003 15:29									#142
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That's AWESOME that CFC did the investigation of Random Outpost for us. For future reference, put one point in the "CFC should survive as our allies" column, though that's CERTAINLY not a done deal yet.

As for GCA's continued retreat, they're going to have to make a stand at some point or they'll just have to resign. I figure they'll probably make their stand at Catchopolis because (and correct me if I'm wrong) I believe the city itself is on a hill. With a city on a hill, being their capital, with city walls, they probably figure that they're in better shape to attrit us when we attack. They probably don't care as much that we'll get to be standing on a hills tile ourselves.

So we may end up getting Algalord just as easily.

If they're going to nail us with their OFFENSIVE army from the CFC front, however, I figure the most likely time is when our army is on the approach of either Algalord or more likely Catchopolis, as suggested. We'll be on open terrain, they have a road network, and then they can retreat to Catchopolis to heal up and dig in for the final battle.

	05-10-2003 16:54									#143
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Trust me, it will be at Algalord that we see their Sword Army. It will most likely be in flatlands that they attack with it. If they wait till we get to Catchopolis to try to hold us, then they will have lost the very good cities: Algalord and Server Fire.

	05-10-2003 17:20									#144
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos I figure they'll probably make their stand at Catchopolis because (and correct me if I'm wrong) I believe the city itself is on a hill. With a city on a hill, being their capital, with city walls, they probably figure that they're in better shape to attrit us when we attack. They probably don't care as much that we'll get to be standing on a hills tile ourselves.

Yes, Catchopolis is on Hill. Algalord is on Plain. Re : my old post.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4. Cities

Catcher in the Rye - has City Walls, sitting on Grassland, Pop 4, has culture, Iron & Wheat nearby
Incredible Dancing Girl - sitting on Grassland, Pop 1, has Culture, Dye nearby
Random Outpost - sitting on Plain, Pop 2, no Culture

Algalord - sitting on Plain, has City Walls, Pop 3, has culture
Server Fire - sitting on Grassland, Pop 3, no Culture
Catchopolis - Capital, sitting on a hill, Pop 6, has culture, Horse nearby
Dun Na Anarchy - sitting on Grassland, Pop 4, has culture, Iron and Silk nearby

BoP - sitting on Grassland, Pop 5, has Culture, Furs nearby
Port Blacksand - sitting on Grassland, Pop 2, no Culture
Sodapolis - sitting on Grassland, Pop 1, no Culture, Iron nearby

Note : No culture means city culture has not expanded.

	05-10-2003 17:34									#145
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So what are our strategy if/when we spot the GCA swords-army? Will we attack it or should we let the army attack us?

	05-10-2003 17:57									#146
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We have 3 things going for us when facing their sword army:

1. It does not heal fully every turn spent in a city with a barracks.

2. It can only attack 1 unit per turn and if it attacks in a turn, it can't heal the same turn.

3. It's slow and once it attacks in a turn, it doesn't move.

I agree with BigFree that they'll likely FIRST hit us with the sword army while we're on open terrain near Algalord. The problem for them is that once the sword army ATTACKS, it's expent its movement and is stuck sitting 1 tile away from us, likely in Algalord or on a nearby tile (assume it's INSIDE the city for this).

If this happens, that army is a sitting duck... it can only attack once (we lose 1 NM, whoopdie do), and then we can bombard it with cats and hit it with a bunch of Medieval Infantry until it dies. Meanwhile, the thing can't heal much each turn.

The more catapults we have, the better, along with the more Medieval Infantry to expend taking down Algalord (and later Catchopolis), the better.

	05-10-2003 18:44									#147
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Ok, cool Arnelos. So we shouldn't worry too much about their army. I agree that cats are very important in this war with the strategy GCA follows.

The only way GCA can hurt us is to sneak an army past our attackers to attack our main cities, but with a few scouts we can easily avoid that.

(Btw this is my 700th post, woohoo )

	05-10-2003 19:28									#148
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I'm not of the same opinion that BF that GCA is certainly doomed... but once we capture RO then wait for reinforcements our stack heading south with be pretty much nigh on impossible to defeat. 10 NMs and 8 Catapults is far more than they could ever hope to penetrate through. That backed with 22/23+ MIs and a new cadre of Horsemen and they won't be able to stop us. However, if we're careless and split our stack we do give them a chance to hit us hard. We should probably pillage a road or two with our coming Horse to help thin the front to 1 tile and prevent them from being able to get around us as we concentrate Army Groups A, B, C and D.

If/when they do attack with their Sword army (it's probably still not at full health even now) then we have to make sure we pound it as hard as we possibly can and make sure it isn't given the chance to escape to heal. Luckily it can only heal 1 HP at a time, but if they attack us at Algalord then retreat it to BoP we could find it at 10 HP before we meet it again.

	06-10-2003 19:27									#149
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Just to note: City walls have no effect on the capital as it is already consided a level 2 city with respect to defensive bonuses.

	06-10-2003 21:16									#150
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Very cool of CFC to help us out with intel

They're playing scorched earth, obviously, which Trip should appreciate. All the more reason, I think, for a settler or two. Even if it doesn't help us militarily at this point, we're most likely going to have to rebuild some cities they are burning to the ground.

The best situation for us would be to catch that sword army out in the open where we can ping it with our cats w/a high chance of success. They don't appear to be stupid, however, so that probably won't happen.

-Arrian