16-10-2003 03:21									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

This has been some interesting diplomacy up to this point!

Seems like we got a bit rapped around the axle with the goodie hut.

How does one figure out the beaker cost? I can do it but need to know how to do it.

A quick post here and Ill get to work.

	16-10-2003 03:29									#32
	Inflate your Upload Space

On this whole issue of deforestation aren't we taking this a bit seriously? Couldn't we chop jungles, irrigate and call them "banana plantations"?

By the time we get up north we should be in Republic and can get the food bonus. Just a thought.

	16-10-2003 16:24									#33
	Increase Your PM Length

This pic is from the 4000bc save.
At 2 beakers per turn, it would take 24 turns.
That means Pottery costs 48 beakers.
1 beaker = 1 gold
One third of the price is therefore 16g.

Can anyone confirm the above ?

	16-10-2003 16:31									#34
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 On this whole issue of deforestation aren't we taking this a bit seriously? Couldn't we chop jungles, irrigate and call them "banana plantations"? By the time we get up north we should be in Republic and can get the food bonus. Just a thought.

I think we agreed to try and stick with the policy.
This game was supposed to be played with a bit of fun...even if it means we are disadvantaging ourselves.

At the moment, we are the only team who have "advertised" our deforestation policy. But you can be sure the Food team will be coming after us first. They have already got monkey brain recipes ready.

If you want to jump in a serious PTWDG, you should also join a team from the first demo game.
GoW is in the thick of things, and you would be made welcome.
Unfortunately, the game is stuck at the moment with a bug, but we are trying to find a work around.

Regs

	16-10-2003 18:58									#35
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel I think we agreed to try and stick with the policy. This game was supposed to be played with a bit of fun...even if it means we are disadvantaging ourselves. At the moment, we are the only team who have "advertised" our deforestation policy. But you can be sure the Food team will be coming after us first. They have already got monkey brain recipes ready. If you want to jump in a serious PTWDG, you should also join a team from the first demo game. GoW is in the thick of things, and you would be made welcome. Unfortunately, the game is stuck at the moment with a bug, but we are trying to find a work around. Regs

Roger that! I saw a reference to not taking the Demo game seriously, but I guess I didn't realize exactly what that meant!

Ok no problem from me, I can be goofy too!

Where can I find our deforestation policy? It sounds like right now we will be happy if for every jungle chopped down a forest is planted elsewhere. Does that sound right?

Thanks, I appreciate everyones patience while Im trying to figure out what is going on!

	17-10-2003 05:20									#36
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

We need to agree on Writing very soon. Otherwise we wont be able to study MM or Lit.

CoD seem to be getting hung up on why we wont let their scout through to pop the hut. I have explined to him that we are on a skinny peninsula, and letting the scout through is like giving them our map.

quote: For the sake of getting this done, I will ask that we send you pottery "accepted" next turn, and you send us back 17 gold (split the difference). I just can't be arsed to figure this out right now for 2g, you know? As for writing and the hut popping... well, as you may have noticed, we've posted a thread in the main forum asking about map trading rules for this game. But that discussion may take a while and we're a turn or two away from Writing. Let me ask you this: why is it that you guys are so reluctant to let us see (some of) your land? You seem to be open to the idea of a map trade, which would give us the same or more knowledge than our scout would, going to and from the hut. As for what we would do with a tech from the hut... well, we're still discussing that. It's all theoritical right now anyway, because for all we know the hut could give us nothing at all. -Arrian

Does anyone have any counter offer suggestions.

They want Hut & scout access for Writing

I have asked that they share the contents of the hut, and we will only allow scout access if we trade maps when map making is available.

Any suggestions....

	17-10-2003 05:27									#37
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I think that's a nice compromise.
However, could we ask to go as directly as possible and not to map our entire territory while they go for the hut? That might kill the CoD map trade though...

--Kon--

	17-10-2003 05:30									#38
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel We need to agree on Writing very soon. Otherwise we wont be able to study MM or Lit. CoD seem to be getting hung up on why we wont let their scout through to pop the hut. I have explined to him that we are on a skinny peninsula, and letting the scout through is like giving them our map. Does anyone have any counter offer suggestions. They want Hut & scout access for Writing I have asked that they share the contents of the hut, and we will only allow scout access if we trade maps when map making is available. Any suggestions....

I say take writing and let them have the hut, as long as they agree to trade maps when map trading is available.

We cant mess with this much longer as H-E said and a tech is probably the most precious thing I want right now.

Also a little good will now can ensure that we can continue to cooperate in the future. If we dont establish that good will now, they just keep working deals with Monty Python and we will be left out in the cold. If that happens we might as well just keep b1tching about deforestation and wait for the end

	17-10-2003 06:15									#39
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

con, you're a wise monkey... you should add this to your sig!

	17-10-2003 18:34									#40
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I concur. Let's do it.

But let's also plan on getting some cities up north asap. (man - do we need that granary.)

	17-10-2003 18:42									#41
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Roger that! I saw a reference to not taking the Demo game seriously, but I guess I didn't realize exactly what that meant! Ok no problem from me, I can be goofy too! Where can I find our deforestation policy? It sounds like right now we will be happy if for every jungle chopped down a forest is planted elsewhere. Does that sound right? Thanks, I appreciate everyones patience while Im trying to figure out what is going on!

Hi con. We posted it earlier on in the public forum. You may have to go back a bit - but you will find it there.

And yes - I think we should stick to it. You have to have principles after all.

Team Monkey - the "Green" Team.

	17-10-2003 19:05									#42
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 I say take writing and let them have the hut, as long as they agree to trade maps when map trading is available. We cant mess with this much longer as H-E said and a tech is probably the most precious thing I want right now. Also a little good will now can ensure that we can continue to cooperate in the future. If we dont establish that good will now, they just keep working deals with Monty Python and we will be left out in the cold. If that happens we might as well just keep b1tching about deforestation and wait for the end

OK Im glad Kon and Beta concur. And I thought of something else last night. If they dont want to trade maps in the future, then lets go for exploring all over just stay out of the others culture footprint.

This does two things, eventually it gets us the same thing as a map trade, even though COD's Scouts will get it faster, and when H-E enters negotiations this gives him a back up in case they say no on maps. Therfore at least giving the Cake Eaters the impression if nothing else that we have our collective "$hit togther". "If we cant dazzle them with brillance, then baffle them with bull$hit".

See what I mean? I think we should try to have various plans for H-E to to go the table with when he does his diplomacy, but then thats just me.

Thoughts?

	19-10-2003 08:30									#43
	Suffering from ads?

quote: We don't have a problem with you moving north... although it's sort of annoying that you're going to get to explore our part of the continent, yet you're making a big deal of letting our scout through. It's not like we're just trading exploration rights. You get writing too. As for the relative values of our maps, there is more to our continent than just what you've explored and what Python has explored. There is quite a bit of neutral territory out there that I really don't think anybody but us has seen. We're trying to work out a deal that gets you guys Writing, so that we (the three of us) can all team up on research, without compromising your ability to do research in the process (by selling Writing for gold). From where I'm sitting, territory map + hut for Writing doesn't seem unreasonable. All that aside, I think that my team is going to be fine with sharing our maps. We can't do that until Mapmaking, though. Sir Ralph (Python ambassador) and I agree that Literature is probably more valueable to our research alliance, but if the map issue is that important to you guys, then perhaps you should go for MM next, and we should trade our maps around ASAP. I do agree that it's easier to work out border agreements if you know the lay of the land. As for what to do if we get a tech from that hut, I haven't seen our forums yet (I'm writing this off the cuff on ~5hrs sleep, by the way. I watched the Yanks/Sox game last night and didn't hit the sack until 1am), but I do think we would wish to get *something* for it. As with Pottery, I'm not looking to make a killing on it. But the whole reason we're popping this hut is compensation for Writing. It's a gamble: we take the chance that we might get something good from the hut. Our odds aren't horrible, but they're not great either. -Arrian

Thats the latest from CoD

Have been crook for the last few days.. laid up in bed.


How should I resond ?

Hut & scout access for Writing
Map trades as soon as MM is researched.

I dont think they like the idea of sharing what they get from the Hut. So we may have to bend on this.

	19-10-2003 08:41									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I concur H_E!

Get writing for the hut, and agree to a map exchange when map making is available.

Mention about free reign for explorers as long as they stay out of culture rings. Suggest that we work together on exploring (COD goes here and we go somewhere else).

We opened pandora's box on the hut popping. now trying to keep our map a secret kind of borders on the ridiculous. Just look at it from there point of view.

As long as we all get maps we are getting a deal for writing which leads us to lit which leads us the tech cooperation with COD and Python.

I say go for it, too late to be secretative about maps.

And I say we relax the no go south for them and no go north for us.

Its a calculated risk BUT they seem to want to cooperate so we IMHO have to run with it.

(Hope you are feeling better)

	19-10-2003 19:51									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I agree with you both... con made me realise that it was too late for not sharing our map, so let's go all the way with this. As long as everyone stays out of the culture rings of the other, I'm fine with it. However, they will have to step in our territory to get to the hut, but I don't think we should make a deal out of this.

I think we've got a great deal here, and I agree with them that they don't want to give us the contents of this hut.

If we want to be really evil, we should pop our other hut when their scout comes near, so that if we get barbs, they will try to get him and not our warrior...

--Kon--

	19-10-2003 20:38									#46
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yup - works for me.

	20-10-2003 01:48									#47
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Konquest02 If we want to be really evil, we should pop our other hut when their scout comes near, so that if we get barbs, they will try to get him and not our warrior... --Kon--

Now Kon I want you to play nice with the other kids OK?

We of course dont want to do this, we are behind right now and need good will much more than ill will.

Ok we are agreed H_E you know what to do and the map trade or free up exploration is good either way, both is fine as well, That should give you sufficient wiggle room to negotiate the deal.

Hey four in this demo game works pretty good, it doesn't take long to come to an agreement!

	20-10-2003 02:08									#48
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Hey four in this demo game works pretty good, it doesn't take long to come to an agreement!

That is my take as well con. In Vox for the longest time there was just 5 of us. Now, it is really down to 3. Still works just fine.

No heavy-duty reporting requirements. No long, drawn-out discussion. I do think some demo teams can be too big, and it slows the game down for all.

	20-10-2003 05:22									#49
	Got spare money?

GUys,

I am really crook with a migrain .. Doctor says stay in bed, and stay off the PC.

Could someone please PM aarian for me.

Much appreciated.

	20-10-2003 05:37									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Now Kon I want you to play nice with the other kids OK? We of course dont want to do this, we are behind right now and need good will much more than ill will.

Personnally, I don't see a problem with this... We seal the deal, and a couple of turns before their scout comes in, we pop the hut. If we gat barbs, we just tell them to be carful, as some barbs are roaming in the area and that we will do our best to protect their scout... If we get other things than barbs, then no word about it and the game continues as it should...

--Kon--

	20-10-2003 05:44									#51
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel GUys, I am really crook with a migrain .. Doctor says stay in bed, and stay off the PC. Could someone please PM aarian for me. Much appreciated.

Yes I will take care of that this evening (USA Time)

I hope you get over the migraine, about ten years ago I used to get them all the time, I hated the dam things!

	20-10-2003 06:34									#52
	Tired of ads?

I just sent this to Arrian:

Arrian, Im filling in for Hot_Enamel because he isn't feeling very well right now.

Here was your last dispatch to our Ambassador:

quote:

We don't have a problem with you moving north... although it's sort of annoying that you're going to get to explore our part of the continent, yet you're making a big deal of letting our scout through. It's not like we're just trading exploration rights. You get writing too.

As for the relative values of our maps, there is more to our continent than just what you've explored and what Python has explored. There is quite a bit of neutral territory out there that I really don't think anybody but us has seen.

We're trying to work out a deal that gets you guys Writing, so that we (the three of us) can all team up on research, without compromising your ability to do research in the process (by selling Writing for gold). From where I'm sitting, territory map + hut for Writing doesn't seem unreasonable.

All that aside, I think that my team is going to be fine with sharing our maps. We can't do that until Mapmaking, though. Sir Ralph (Python ambassador) and I agree that Literature is probably more valueable to our research alliance, but if the map issue is that important to you guys, then perhaps you should go for MM next, and we should trade our maps around ASAP. I do agree that it's easier to work out border agreements if you know the lay of the land.

As for what to do if we get a tech from that hut, I haven't seen our forums yet (I'm writing this off the cuff on ~5hrs sleep, by the way. I watched the Yanks/Sox game last night and didn't hit the sack until 1am), but I do think we would wish to get *something* for it. As with Pottery, I'm not looking to make a killing on it. But the whole reason we're popping this hut is compensation for Writing. It's a gamble: we take the chance that we might get something good from the hut. Our odds aren't horrible, but they're not great either.

-Arrian

Well we have done some talking on these subjects and we have FINALLY agreed that we will trade the Hut for writing right up front.

If you guys get a tech out of the hut we can negotiate compensation for the new tech sometime in the future. So straight up deal. Hut (no strings attached) for writing.

Im convinced this is best for all parties because while we then research Lit, that will allow you or Monty to research the other half of the road to Republic (as we discussed previously)

On your scout heading south. We have decided to change our position on that topic. Feel free to explore south and pop the hut. We would just like to explore north as you have indicated is OK with your nation. All we ask is that we stay out of each others culture footprints, which I believe you have either already mentioned or agrees to.

In the future we would also like to eventually exchange maps when the map making tech becomes available.

With that all being said we would like to cooperate on explorations. What I mean by that is give some kind of idea where you have been already and we can give you an idea where we have been. Then we both decide which way we are going to go together and make sure to try and not cross paths.That way we aren't duplicating effort once we can exchange maps.

Im on USA time, so as soon as you can consult with your folks and get back to me Ill post it in our forum. Good working with you and we look forward to lots of mutually beneficial cooperation in the future.

conmcb25 (Steve K)

	20-10-2003 18:58									#53
	Put an end to popups!

Answer from Arrian:

RE: Monkey Fill In Ambassador

Wish H_E a speedy recovery for me.

Thanks for your message. It sounds like a plan to me. Your exploring warrior can go north, and our scout will proceed southward. Staying out of cultural borders sounds good to us. Writing, which is due this turn (unless FP already played it... this is the first time I've been on 'poly since friday), will be sent to you. Then I take it that you intend to research Literature? Excellent. With libraries and republic our research should really take off.

I'm glad we worked this out.

-Arrian

Like I said lets go ahead and establish goodwill, and now take off on the cooperative research.

I intend to answer with a definitive "yes" on Lit, and again suggest we coordinate which areas of the map we explore.

Anything else? Comments?

	21-10-2003 02:51									#54
	Increase Your PM Length

Yup! Nice letter!

Might as well tell them where the hut we're giving them is, so that they can beeline for it...

--Kon--

	21-10-2003 03:08									#55
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Konquest02 Yup! Nice letter! Might as well tell them where the hut we're giving them is, so that they can beeline for it... --Kon--

OK any ideas on how we do that, since we can't trade maps yet? Give them a bearing from one of our cities?

	21-10-2003 03:35									#56
	Got spare money?

I think we should say :" Go south until you reach our borders, then go east until the sea. Then, go south and the goody hut is supposed to be there..."

We might want to direct them exactly when we spot them near our borders.

--Kon--

	21-10-2003 04:12									#57
	Put an end to popups!

Roger that.

Lest get those settlers moving north, make sure we get writting next turn and then research Lit.

I love it when a plan comes together!

	21-10-2003 09:18									#58
	Got spare money?

OK another dispatch from the Cake Eaters and my reply is on top:

A couple of things:

1. SCOUT DIRECTIONS: Your scout should proceed south until he hits our city territory. Then turn east until he hits the sea. Then go south again and as he gets closer we will guide him to the hut.

2. Our RESEARCH: We will definately research Lit next.

3. COOPERATIVE EXPLORING: We would like to discuss possibly doing cooperative exploring. So when we can tarde maps we haven't spent a lot of time exploring the same territory. Our units are approaching the mountain range. Is there anyway we should go that you have not been yet? This is just a thought so we dont both do the same work and will make maps trading more effective down the raod. Please let us now your thought on this?

Good working with you and thanks again. We will let you know if the writing trade worked or not. Im a newbie to CIV 3 multiplayer as well so you are in good company!

quote: Arrian wrote on Monday, October 20th, 2003 18:36: Ok, I sent you guys writing. At least I think I did. I opened up the diplo screen, put writing in as a new deal, hit "accept" and "send." The only reason I say I "think" I sent it is that after having done that, if I went back into the diplo screen, it still listed writing as a tech we had but you didn't. I'm still not real comfortable with the way some things work in PBEM. Hopefully, I did it right. If not, I'll figure it out and fix it next turn. -Arrian

	21-10-2003 19:07									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

OK another dispatch from the Cake Eaters. And my response just sent. [Puts on his intell hat for a minute}
This tells ne they have already done A LOT of exploring or they are blowing smoke. And with scouts vs our warriirs that is probabaly or at least has a high probability of being true. With that being said when it comes time to trade maps we will in all likelyhood be in the "weaker" position. So to get that info we are probably going to have to reach another comprimise. Just letting you know ahead of time my take on this. My estimation is if they offer map for map we should take it and run.[Takes his intell hat off.}

Other than that Im glad we got this worked out.

Now you guys better crack the whip and get those Graneries built!

Arrian'
Ok I understand on the exploring, if we need any more directions we will get ahold of you.

I think our issues are decided right now but if something else comes up get ahold of me or Ill get ahold of you. And if H_E gets off the sick list we will let you know. Thanks again and we are glad we could work this out!

quote: Arrian wrote on Tuesday, October 21st, 2003 07:58: The only part of the continent we haven't explored is your area. The scout is on his way back to the hills where you guys had him stop before... it will take him a turn or two just to get there, because he was up in the jungle. Thanks for the directions. You may notice that we've established an embassy in Primate Central, by the way. I would suggest you head north until you see our borders, then cut west and north again. -Arrian

	22-10-2003 09:04									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

con -

Great letter and great FA. (You ARE a wise monkey.)

And yes - let's get those granaries built.