03-11-2003 10:22									#91
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Like I said...
If they get a tech & maintain a lead...they will deal for the 2nd hut.

No tech, then we have caught up in tech...and no deal for the second hut.

Con, if you feel you can push a little, you can say that unless they deal, we have decided to pop the 2nd hut ourselves.


Also...
What is the arrangement to get their scout home? Same way back ?
Have we considered what happens if they get a settler ?
- We could take it..turn it into 2 workers..then gift the workers back to them
- Can we purchase the settler? They build a city where we want it, and then gift the city to us for gold ?

Do they have "The Wheel" ?
It would be nice to know if we have horses.
We dont have any iron, so I am keen to see if Panzer left us completely defensless.

Regs

	03-11-2003 19:29									#92
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Latest from Arrian (CoD)

quote: RE: Scout Directions: Heya, Thanks for the directions. Just so you know what we're up to: we won't pop the hut immediately. In order to get the best tech we can out of the hut (if we get a tech), we are going to wait until we finish researching CoL, so that we can switch research to the wheel for the purposes of popping the hut. That way, if we get a tech, it should be Mysticism. Then we will immediately switch our research to something else and ask Sir Ralph to send us the wheel. So our scout may get to the hut and hang out for a turn or three before popping it. -Arrian

My first inclination is to agree because what he says makes sense, HOWEVER I think we need to make it clear we dont want them popping any more huts until we reach agreement on compensation. No compensation means no hut popping ultimately. Ill do it diplomatically.

Thoughts?

	04-11-2003 04:31									#93
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Yep...

Can we ask that his scout not explore our South.
ie just fortify next to the hut.

Not that we have too much to hide, but they may take the opportunity to explore.


Perhaps tell them that Barbarians camps are popping. We would like him to stay fortified just within our borders so that we can protect him.

Scouts have 2 moves. on their second move, they risk walking to a tile right next to an unseen barb camp.

	04-11-2003 04:33									#94
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we might want to send a unit down there to see if the scout is doing something else or pops the hut when he says so... If you think I'm feeling a bit paranoid with this, just tell me.

--Kon--

	04-11-2003 05:16									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Konquest02 we might want to send a unit down there to see if the scout is doing something else or pops the hut when he says so... If you think I'm feeling a bit paranoid with this, just tell me. --Kon--

Nope - I agree. We have Giles down there and I think the new-born Furry would like to stretch his legs as well.

	04-11-2003 07:46									#96
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OK I can try this but just remember we agreed to free exploration. And after they see the extra Ivory there really aint much to see. Ill also mention we have huts to the east and would prefer they avoid them until we negotiate on there disposition.

But again this isn't something I want to use brownie points on. No real return on the investment so if they balk, Ill do them a favor and let em explore. Then they owe me

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel Yep... Can we ask that his scout not explore our South. ie just fortify next to the hut. Not that we have too much to hide, but they may take the opportunity to explore. Perhaps tell them that Barbarians camps are popping. We would like him to stay fortified just within our borders so that we can protect him. Scouts have 2 moves. on their second move, they risk walking to a tile right next to an unseen barb camp.

	04-11-2003 07:49									#97
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Latest from Arrian:

quote: Speaking of scout directions, I note your warrior has hit our southern border. He seems to be poised to go around to the east. I suggest he go west, and here is why: It's not that the eastern route will take you through our territory (it will, because we also started close to the coast, and we *just* built a coastal city this turn), but that your warrior will have to dodge a worker and a settler team that will be moving right through that area. That's just gonna be a hassle to make sure we don't get in each other's way. If you go 'round to the west, there will be no such issues. -Arrian

Seeing how this warrior just left the spice/ gold area that Beta loved, I wonder if that is where they are gonna settle?

Should I bring up a border soon? What do you guys want to go for?

	04-11-2003 09:52									#98
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Yes - I say let's start the border discussion - and even if we give in to what they want - we will have built up credit of some sort. And at a minimum - we do not want to get trapped on our peninsula. We need one city at the juncture of the two peninsulas. They get the luxuries - and agree to send us one ad infintum, and we get the site to the west. Sound fair?

	04-11-2003 19:46									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Beta Yes - I say let's start the border discussion - and even if we give in to what they want - we will have built up credit of some sort. And at a minimum - we do not want to get trapped on our peninsula. We need one city at the juncture of the two peninsulas. They get the luxuries - and agree to send us one ad infintum, and we get the site to the west. Sound fair?

I agree although I will initially try for more of course.

How about the others? What do you think?

	05-11-2003 00:32									#100
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Don't have much time here, so...



Will get more in when I'll get home

	13-11-2003 01:32									#101
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Latest from Arrian:

quote: PTWDGII Hey, Ok, we've decided to that Warrior Code-for-hut is ok with us, provided that you not trade Warrior Code onward. Python doesn't have it yet. I'm going to offer it to them as well, either for cash or to be tacked on to some future tech deal. Until now, I've been operating under the assumption that each team has exclusive rights to trade tech it researches/gets from huts. Hence though we have the wheel from Python, I consider it their tech to trade, no ours. Similiarly, once you guys get Literature, I figure you will trade it to CoD and Python seperately, thus getting the most out of it. I'll clarify with Sir Ralph to make sure we're on the same page. Let me know if the WC-for-hut deal is acceptable. If so, can you provide directions to the new hut (starting from the tile where the 1st hut was)? The first hut gave us Mysticism. I had engineered things to maximize the chances of that, but I'm still psyched - it's good luck on our part. We don't have a clue yet as to how we're going to fit it into our research consortium scheme. We hadn't really thought it out that far, since we didn't know for sure if we would get it. Now we have, and we're started talking. We're trying to come up with an approach that moves us all forward. -Arrian

I say we take the Tech and run for the second hut. I dont know about the no passing the info agreement, I haven't kept track of what we researched and what we got from Trading. Can someone do a running list? In a separate thread?

Ill get on the border issue as well.

	13-11-2003 02:58									#102
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As I predicted.....

They got tech, they keep their advantage over us, and will therefore do another tech for hut.

I agree. Do the deal. A guaranteed tech for a hut is far better than what we could hope for.

	13-11-2003 03:19									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel As I predicted..... They got tech, they keep their advantage over us, and will therefore do another tech for hut. I agree. Do the deal. A guaranteed tech for a hut is far better than what we could hope for.

You were right oh wise one!

Kon, Beta, what do you say, Id like to finish this deal tonight and give them directions.

	13-11-2003 04:04									#104
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Let's rock.

btw - do they know about the 3rd hut? If not - do we want to keep it quiet or start negotiations now. It is conceivable to keep it quiet. It is 4 tiles from the second one.

Also - I suggest the following moves to get them there:

1st move - 6-3
2nd move - 6 to hill
3rd move - 2-3 to hut.

I will move Giles to a position 9 of the hut so he can watch over things. We need to be a bit more careful as there is one loose barb in the area. (I think - or did I kill him??) Giles can be their advance guard, but tell them to make their first scout move one tile at a time to be sure. The barb may be hiding in the woods 3-3 from the 1st hut. Everything else either they, or we, can see.

Another btw, I am waiting for a num merc to take out the barb encampment on the SE point of land.

All in all, this works out very well. Two huts - two techs. Couldn't ask for much better than that. Great plan guys.

	13-11-2003 19:44									#105
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OK here is the reply to Arrian:


Arrian

You got a green light on the tech for hut trade.

Here are directions straight from Beta:

quote: Also - I suggest the following moves to get them there: 1st move - 6-3 2nd move - 6 to hill 3rd move - 2-3 to hut. I will move Giles to a position 9 of the hut so he can watch over things. We need to be a bit more careful as there is one loose barb in the area. (I think - or did I kill him??) Giles can be their advance guard, but tell them to make their first scout move one tile at a time to be sure. The barb may be hiding in the woods 3-3 from the 1st hut. Everything else either they, or we, can see

So be darn carefull there maybe a loose barb around there, if you dont understand these directions let me know. I haven't looked at the save since last week, been kind of busy with RL as you know. BTW Giles is one of our Monkey Warriors

quote: Arrian wrote on Wednesday, November 12th, 2003 15:11:00: Hey, Ok, we've decided to that Warrior Code-for-hut is ok with us, provided that you not trade Warrior Code onward. Let me know if the WC-for-hut deal is acceptable. If so, can you provide directions to the new hut (starting from the tile where the 1st hut was)? -Arrian

Ill work on the border and third hut in a couple of hours, the plan was to get caught up last night and then we lost power due to a wind storm. Power was still out this morning, it was interesting getting the kids ready for school! )

	13-11-2003 21:33									#106
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Arrian's Reply:

quote: RE: Re: PTWDGII Con, Excellent. Pleasure doing business with you guys, as usual. I will leave instructions to send you WC next turn. Well, if we get a tech from this hut, it will be Horseback Riding. We're researching republic and so we don't have the option of blocking that off by selecting it as current research, like we did with the last one. But I'd be pretty surprised if we manage to get tech again. I believe our scout moved westward from the original hut last turn (4,4 ?), based on the turn screenshots, so it will take 1 turn to get him back to the original hut location, and then three more turns, based on Beta's directions, to reach the hut. To the extent you can direct Giles to watch our poor defenseless little guy's back, it will be much appreciated. If you guys play a turn and see that we're about to walk into certain death, can you please PM not only me, but also Cort Haus, who plays the turns as much as I do? Just in case I don't see it in time. Thanks! -Arrian p.s. How's Literature coming?

So BETA or whoever plays the turn if you see there scout in imminent danger please PM Arrian and Cort Haus, so we dont waste time with me as the middle man. THANKS!

	13-11-2003 23:02									#107
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Will do. Got it covered.

Good job with CoD con. Looks like we are off to a good start with them.

Guess the real truth will be when we start negotiating the border agreement.

	14-11-2003 05:37									#108
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Following message sent to both Cort Haus and Arrian.

quote: Hi Cort. Giles has moved to a hilltop position to the east of your scouts position - and the good news is that is that it is all clear. No sign of a barb. Please proceed as per conmcb's directions. If someone appears, we will let you know and we can deal with him. Good luck with the hut! ....Beta.

	14-11-2003 07:36									#109
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Response from Cort Haus, with some good names for cities.

quote: Salutations, noble primate, May your Cappuchino's be frothy, your Howlers be in fine voice, and your Silver-backs glisten in the sweet dawn. Thank you for your most curteous escort. Enjoy Warrior Code when you recieve it next turn, and have fun farming barbs! - Cort.

	14-11-2003 08:15									#110
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Con,

Do you want to ask CoD whats it like on the South West Peninsula.

We can see coast way down south near the tundra. It would be nice to know if the peninsula stretches that far down.

You would have to ask, without giving the coast information away.


Do this under the guise of setting up a border negotiation. Only CoD knows the full map, which gives them an advantage over us & Python.

It looks like COD have nice land to their West. Any expansion they do south will be stunted by the jungle. They are not industrious, so I suspect they would prefer to go North & West.

If we know the layout of the peninsula, then perhaps we could agree to the border being the southern edge of the jungle. (Can we still get the luxury from there ?)

But if that peninsula sucks or is stunted then we need to come up with a plan. (war ?)

	14-11-2003 08:27									#111
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HMMM H_E, Ill think on this one.

Here is what I was going to send to Arrian before I read your post. Im a little leary on this border issue so I figured I would post it here for us to read and comment on first.

Somehow we should work in the question about the other pennisula.

I thought we should start with a general discussion but get the spice issue on the table right off the bat. They aint stupid so my goal there would be to ask for the whole feild and settle for a peice.

Man o man, I dont know about war, we have a hard enough time covering our sities and settlers right now. We better REX like bunnies first and get production up!

Ok here it is before I read H_E's post, obviously we need to work the pennisula question into it:

quote: Thanks Arrian the pleasure is mutual. Last count is 22 turns for Lit. We also gave Cort Haus a low down on Barbs, none in sight of our warrior and we couldn't see the scout but assume he is just to the west of us. Two new topics: 1. We have a THIRD hut, and obviously we would like to deal it. 2. Our northern border and your southern border. As you can tell by now we are on a pennisula. We would like to soon begin working a second core up north. We would like that outer ring to be somewhere around the spice feilds south of your capitol. And quite frankly need that space for any kind of decent expansion. Our first core will be done soon as we pump out settlers so we should begin discussions on this topic soon. Our hope is that we can come to another mutually beneficial agreement. Let me know what your guys are thinking and then we can figure out how to start working out the details. Talk to ya soon! conmcb25

	16-11-2003 20:05									#112
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Im feeling lonely guys! ;0

Any comments?

	17-11-2003 04:54									#113
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Con,

If it was me....
I wouldn't push for a border just yet.
I would discuss trading maps, and ask if they can give us details of the other peninsula. Friendly like.

They really didnt want to discuss maps with me, but did agree with my position that its makes border negotiation far easier.
Iron deposits, Horse resources and luxeries are more evenly distributed. etc etc.
It would be terrible to agree on a border, only to find out that there is an iron deposit just beyond our reach.

I would discuss maps with Python as well.

Once we all have the same knowledge base of our continent, border negotiation is a hell of a lot easier.

But then again, you have had far more success dealing with CoD than I ever did. Your letter is fine.

	17-11-2003 07:27									#114
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Hmmmm

Well Kon and I think Beta were pushing for the start of a border agreement but H_E has some dam good points here, plus we really cant trade maps until map making, correct? Maybe it is premature.

Maybe we ought to ask about the other pennisula under the guise of eventually trading maps and start there.

Sort of bury the friendly pennisula question in a global are you guys on board with an eventual map trade?

Kon, Beta, what do you think?

	17-11-2003 07:32									#115
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Yup - I see the merit in H_E's suggestion, and the rationale both you and he provided.

And furthermore - if push comes to shove down the road, it is CoD who is in the precarious position in the middle of the continent.

	17-11-2003 07:47									#116
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Gotta agree with you guys...

	17-11-2003 08:27									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Beta And furthermore - if push comes to shove down the road, it is CoD who is in the precarious position in the middle of the continent.

Let me at them !

	17-11-2003 20:08									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel Let me at them !

We NEED to make this guy the Minister of Monkey War!

	18-11-2003 08:04									#119
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 We NEED to make this guy the Minister of Monkey War!

He would be a fine choice!

MMW - Minister of Monkey War
MMM - Minister of the Monkey Military
MSM - Minister of the Simian Military
SPCA - General Of the Simian Peace Corps Administration.




You can imagine which one I am voting for.

	21-11-2003 04:34									#120
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Looks like a big nothing from the hut.

quote: con, FYI - we popped hut #2, and received a big fat nothing. Oh well. -Arrian

Ok what do we do now, I doubt they are gonna give up another tech, although we need to ask, what should I settle for? What should be our minimum position?