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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:31
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Originally posted by Havak
At least that was semi logical?  |
Truck and trailer is perfectly logical. In fact, given the size of the buggers doing the shepherding, it's probably the perfect image.
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It’s an aspect of play that was so evidently missing in that NPC game I saw – and yet it is a fundamental of the game. The difference between hemispheres continues to astound me on this one |
They're just different heritages. It astounded SH people for a very long time that England rarely ran with the ball. Until, of course, we realised they were neither fit nor imaginative enough.
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But then you should be asleep now so I can tag Tamerlin in – he will no doubt still be awake when you next scan the thread. |
Yes. Les cafards usually wait till it's nice and dark and quiet before they emerge to wreak their havoc.  (Pun intended!)
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The ultimate irony is surely though that Australia don’t use them simply because they can’t? |
I prefer to think of it as the Wallabies preferring individual thought to mob mentality.
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The last try ever scored from a maul by a Wallaby? |
Even if it were, it sank you! 
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God that game plagues me – will no one rid me of those damn Australians of 91? |
You had your chances! They were coughing it up all over the place. In fact, you had a glorious try opportunity with about a minute to go. Some England player with dark hair charged off with the ball, got himself isolated, to be dragged down from behind by John Eales. Turnover!
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Mission for all other countries left in the mix – don’t let the buggers get into another final and steal it – it will haunt you for decades however many times you whip them between cups!  |
The only thing we have going for us is that we're underdogs, and that's when we perform best. OTOH, I honestly believe Eddie is going to make some fundamental selection errors via his inherent conservatism, in keeping with his obvious preference for the style of play that won the trophy in '99. The game has moved on since '99, and that style is now very easily stoppable.
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:31
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quote:
*edit* For Finbar when he starts his Wednesday. BBC reporter Jim Stokes had this to say about Luger-gate today. A bit pot and kettle to use the phrase arrogant if the Aussie press really did?
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The Sydney press is going great guns on the Dan Luger incident.
So much so that they are convinced "arrogant England" should be severely punished for showing the contempt.
It has been even suggested they should be stripped of the points. Stir crazy that one.
Of course, Eddie Jones was quick off the mark as usual, never one to miss an opportunity to have a pop at opponents.
Poor Dan Luger. He was only told, or should I say, shoved onto the field by one of the England assistant coaches.
Maybe it should be him getting it in the neck. |
Well, as I said, there is next to no concern about it in the media of which I take any notice. Check the Sydney Morning Herald's Rugby Heaven website. There was a small article in yesterday's paper reporting that the matter was being investigated. There was an article in this morning's paper quoting Clive saying they'd made a mistake and he had no idea how serious (or otherwise) it was. There hasn't been any editorialising.
Eddie Jones made only one comment. He was asked about it the next day, before anyone knew what exactly had happened. Which is basically what he said - he didn't know whether it was an official error or a management error, but every coach wants a replacement on the field ASAP and accidents can happen.
The only mention of it on Channel 7's nightly low-brow Rugby Clubhouse, which I've already reported, called it a trivial matter warranting a reprimand. Maybe something is being made of it in Murdoch's Telegraph, I don't know, I don't read it.
Frankly, I think Jim Stokes is doing some beating up himself for the benefit of an audience far removed from what is actually going on.
It's really very simple. It seems someone on the England bench told Luger to disobey the sideline official and go onto the field. If so, it obviously can't go unpunished. What that punishment might be is up to the IRB.
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Havak
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Swing Low, Sweet Chariots.
Aug 1999
time: 05:31
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Yes, well the British Bulldog woke up eventually.
Sosene Anesi. Samoan by both parentage and birth. Turned down a call from Michael Jones earlier this week to represent his country ‘because he had already talked to the NZ Union’. Jones said he was disappointed but as ‘Education seemed to be part of the deal’ he could understand the players decision. He then re-iterated his request to the IRB to help smaller nations without understanding the irony that his wearing the black hastened the situation the Islands now face.
Now I can sit back and expect more defence of the indefensible?
Okay Finbar – everything you wrote about the Luger incident was sensible. But let me point you to part of the media you may have missed and give you the words of wisdom of an ‘Aussie’ player, Toutai Kefu.
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”The World Cup organisers need to show courage over England's extra-man scandal and strip the Poms of their points, It makes no difference that the English sent out Dan Luger at the tail-end of the game when the result was already decided. The bottom line is that rules are rules. Even worse, England defied a tournament official. That's the key issue here. The English are always arrogant. Go back in history, look at the English Army. Who goes to war wearing red coats? To suggest nothing should be done is a joke.” |
Said to the Sydney Daily Telegraph apparently. This really isn’t helpful Finbar – and its overtly racist as well. Had it been written by Austin about Aussies your nation would want blood. Well I want blood here – we Poms are totally ****** off with your coaches and players opening their mouths at will and spouting racist ****. Lets hope for once the ARU has the courage to distance itself from this crap?
Should the IRB decide to deduct points we’ll have to live with it – but no Aussie player is going to dictate it.
Hell I know it’s not your fault Finbar – but Kefu really has annoyed me here. I roundly condemned the more extreme views Austin offered two years ago – and he was disciplined quite severely by the Lions authorities for them too. At the same time Burke and Gregan wer not even spoken to by the ARU for comments that ranked on a similar level. I want to see some sense that Australia are prepared to stamp on this kind of thing too. A futile hope sadly?
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They're just different heritages |
Who invented the game? The only heritage that counts is right there surely! 
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I prefer to think of it as the Wallabies preferring individual thought to mob mentality. |
Yes but we both know the truth don’t we?
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Even if it were, it sank you! |
June 2000. Last time you beat us. Just for reference.
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Some England player with dark hair charged off with the ball, got himself isolated, to be dragged down from behind by John Eales. Turnover! |
I think that may have been the great Rory Underwoood – best amateur player ever – but what chance did he have against the consummate Professional ‘Nobody’.
I still like John Eales – anaylsis on Neil Back aside – great player and usually diplomatic with the use of his mouth. Plus he is a mate of Jonno. I’ll allow him one led by the nose transgression on Aussie TV.
Now lets talk 95 and a shambolic Aussie side that could not beat the worst England side ever to go into an RWC. Rob Andrew kicked you out the tournament for god’s sake!
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The only thing we have going for us is that we're underdogs, and that's when we perform best |
Anyone would be a fool to write off Australia. I for one would not be surprised to see you derail NZ and I sure don’t fancy you in the final.
Of course we may meet NZ first after IRB Commissioner Kefu says that an onfield penalty offence should now result in a reversal of the points from the game. It wouldn’t hurt to see proof that as well as demanding blood you can discipline your own gobby players. Tell Toutai not to pack his bags for here anytime soon – he isn’t welcome. And my opinion on that is the least extreme of the reaction I’ve seen so far this morning.
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Re the latter - stop rubbing it in! |
It’s my last ditch recourse against you!
*edit* Apparently the same paper has an article claiming the Irish are going to 'surrender' to Australia. It's your equivalent of The Sun isn't it - i.e. toilet paper?
You may beat Ireland, you may thrash them - but no Ireland team will ever 'surrender' to you.
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Havak
Okay Finbar – everything you wrote about the Luger incident was sensible. But let me point you to part of the media you may have missed and give you the words of wisdom of an ‘Aussie’ player, Toutai Kefu.
Said to the Sydney Daily Telegraph apparently. This really isn’t helpful Finbar – and its overtly racist as well. Had it been written by Austin about Aussies your nation would want blood. Well I want blood here – we Poms are totally ****** off with your coaches and players opening their mouths at will and spouting racist ****. Lets hope for once the ARU has the courage to distance itself from this crap?
Should the IRB decide to deduct points we’ll have to live with it – but no Aussie player is going to dictate it. |
The IRB taking advice from Toutai!
There you go. It was Murdoch's "Telegraph", the paper I don't bother to read. A bit better than your "Sun", but not a lot. But exactly why you're taking any notice of Toutai Kefu, I'm not sure. Not many others do, and the IRB certainly won't. Nice chap, good rugby player, but, rugby aside, his total preoccupation is horse racing. Very dry sense of humour, though. It sounds to me like he was taking the p*ss. Regardless, I'm not sure whether he's still under contract to the ARU, so I don't know whether they have any control over what he says or does anymore. He's off to Japan to finish his playing days there. But if he is still bound, the ARU should tell him to shut up.
Out of interest, if it is found that one of the coaching staff told Luger to ignore the sideline official and take the field, what do you think the penalty should be?
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Who invented the game? The only heritage that counts is right there surely! |
Cricket rather disproves that theory, I'd've thought.
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You may beat Ireland, you may thrash them - but no Ireland team will ever 'surrender' to you. |
Well, they pretty much did in their Test here earlier in the year.
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Havak
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Swing Low, Sweet Chariots.
Aug 1999
time: 05:31
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quote:
But exactly why you're taking any notice of Toutai Kefu, I'm not sure. Not many others do, and the IRB certainly won't |
I only took notice because it’s totally out of order by him – and very reminiscent of a certain English player from two years ago. The difference in the way he is dealt with will be very interesting to me. And if he isn’t under contract to the Union lets have the IRB discipline him – perhaps even stop his pension move to Japan – for bringing the game into disrepute.
The IRB have appointed an Irish judicial officer - one Brian McLaughlin. I know little about him.
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Out of interest, if it is found that one of the coaching staff told Luger to ignore the sideline official and take the field, what do you think the penalty should be? |
Luger rapped over the knuckles for being stupid – the guilty member of coaching staff sent home on the next flight. The team fined. Anything more is OTT.
It was the fitness coach Dave Reddin apparently – who doubles as the replacement official for us. It’s hard to see what happened but apparently after the game there was huge argument between him, the fourth official (Kiwi Steve Walsh) and the IRB touchline monitor for the game (Brett Bowden).
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Cricket rather disproves that theory, I'd've thought. |
How so? Good Sportsmenship was surely stripped from the game by Aussies in both cases?
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Well, they pretty much did in their Test here earlier in the year. |
They played very poorly – but I’m not sure I’d call it surrender as such. And Ireland with Keith Wood is a different prospect – they miss him like we miss Jonno.
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And now I think I'll retire to bed and FoxSports for another evening of England gloriously snatching defeat from the jaws of victory |
Foxsports have an “ancient sporting history” channel?
June 2000 Finbar – and lucky at that
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The problem is the number of points the other team scores during the french "fades". |
It wouldn’t be France if the team didn’t pause for ten minutes in a half to have a cigarette and a glass of wine.
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if you want to be World Champion you must be able to win against every team be it NZ, Australia, South Africa, England or Ireland. |
Hmm.. check, check, check and check – yep beaten all them last time out.
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You are giving Finbar the stick to beat you with. |
I do over use Sarcasm at times. I think I was trying to highlight the irony of an Aussie sportsman calling the English arrogant too. Dear Pot – telegram for you from Kettle.
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There is no way I can support a SH team when a NH team is involved. |
But it is Wales Tamerlin. You can’t make me support Wales?
Is it me – or does Finbar keep signing off for the day only to sally back with something he forgot?
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28-10-2003 20:54
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