14-04-2004 02:27									#301
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Thanks for your reply Solver, but is it a line you have to add manually yourself somewhere (For example, in an APOL file if you want to play with the SAP2)?

The idea of my utility is that you don't have to search through all the *_Const.txt files looking for the right place to insert the line .

	14-04-2004 02:38									#302
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Yeah, you could have used John's new utility. I forgot about that.

BTW, it seems to me that SAP is obsolescent. It was intended to enable people to 'play CTP2 as it was meant to be', and isn't that just what we're working on with the source code?

	14-04-2004 02:49									#303
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quote: Originally posted by Peter Triggs BTW, it seems to me that SAP is obsolescent. It was intended to enable people to 'play CTP2 as it was meant to be', and isn't that just what we're working on with the source code?

Not quite - the source code project is "The CTP2 engine as it was meant to be" whereas SAP is "The CTP2 rules as they were meant to be". Of course, SAP does 'emulate' engine modifications in its SLIC, but it does a lot more besides.

	14-04-2004 02:49									#304
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quote: Originally posted by J Bytheway The idea of my utility is that you don't have to search through all the *_Const.txt files looking for the right place to insert the line .

I have not yet tested your utility J Bytheway, I think that I should give it a try though I don't know if it easy enough to use for me. I should try...

	15-04-2004 01:29									#305
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quote: Originally posted by Martin Gühmann But what I actual want to know now from the playtesters is if the unit in the wrong place bug still occurs. I think that has to do with a memory leak that Fromafar fixed and therefore it would be gone with the memory leak.

The description from the patch "Increased animation queue to 12, making unit-in-wrong-place bug less likely" is not very helpful.

For the past 3 weeks, I have been playtesting with different values for 2 possible candidates in the code: k_MAX_UNIT_MOVEMENT_ITERATIONS in Action.h and k_MAX_ACTION_QUEUE_SIZE in Actor.h.
Neither increasing nor decreasing (applying reverse logic - should make the bug more likely ) seem to have any impact. I can set k_MAX_ACTION_QUEUE_SIZE to 2 and/or k_MAX_UNIT_MOVEMENT_ITERATIONS to 1 without even so much as an Assert in the debug mode.

	15-04-2004 12:04									#306
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I know Ive asked this before but since things are moving along nicely now one of the first things that will improve the games AI by about 1000% is to define the code change to reduce the max # of units in a stack to less than 12.

Ie I think 5 or 7 would be best as once the human player creates 2-3 super stacks they clean up b/c the AI will never optimise their stacks and once lost their 2 defenders in each city will fall like domino's esp with mv>1 stacks.


The code is open, can anyone get back to us on if it can be done, i would hope/expect it to be a simple script maxstacksize=12 or something.

If so lets playtest I'd be very surprised if this doesn't improve CTP2 AI alot.

	15-04-2004 18:03									#307
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Hi There,

Gave it a good thrashing

No crashes and I liked all changes. Only comments are three things which still bug me (but only one bug?).

1. Wonders that give the effect of building eg Hygia Sophia gives a temple so why does temple still appear in the build que?

2. Capital is in the build que - this is such a unique building I think it should have have its own button to include it in the que.

3. Enemy movements - yoc can switch on and off but I would like an option to only see certain enemy's movements (Why do I want to see an aly moving around? no need to answer but it would be nice to have an option......)

The last 2 are not bugs just wish lists stuff but is the first a bug?

Well done to everyone - VERY VERY GOOD!!!

Beech

	15-04-2004 18:54									#308
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quote: Originally posted by beechworth Hi There, 1. Wonders that give the effect of building eg Hygia Sophia gives a temple so why does temple still appear in the build que? Beech

It’s good planning to have a backup just encase the wonder was destroyed or made obsolete that’s why it’s left in.

	15-04-2004 19:03									#309
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I see what your saying but cant it be coded to come back into the build que if the wonder is obsolete or destroyed? Or put a check box in that will hide items in the buid que that a wonder provides? It would just give the game more polish - I have no idea how hard it is!

Thanks for the quick responce

Beech

	15-04-2004 19:51									#310
	Suggestion for building effects granted by wonders Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I too would like to see something different done here. Suggestions:
- Have a check box in the options menu to have buildings whose effects are granted by a wonder to not appear
- Change the appearance of building names whose effects are granted by a wonder e.g. grey and/or italic and/or asterisk

Hygia Sophia gives the effect of a shrine in each city so building that shrine does nothing to increase happiness. If you want to increase the happiness of a city and you have Hygia Sophia, don’t bother building a shrine. If you want to make sure you do not take a happiness hit when Hygia Sophia becomes obsolete, then build the shrine prior. The second is the reason to have the (option to have the) shrine on the buildable list; the first is the reason to remove or highlight the shrine.

	15-04-2004 20:20									#311
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Actually never bothered to check, but:

If you have Hygia Sophia and you had some shrines prior, to you still pay for them?

	15-04-2004 21:12									#312
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quote: Originally posted by Solver One bug, BTW - if I get a diplomacy proposal, something's definitely wrong there. I get either their proposal, but on the left it says "The xx have ACCEPTED our proposal" (rather than say that we got a proposal), and I only have the OK button instead of accept & reject. Or, it says that they REJECTED proposal, I get the OK and Threat buttons - again, this happens when THEY send me a proposal.

I've been seeing this a lot and has made the game unplayable. What will happen for me with a new game is:

1. I will encounter a civ and move a unit next to their city
2. They will send a stop trespass agreement (which appears accepted or rejected) on their turn and I end up being unable to move units (their turn) or end the turn (since it is their turn).

On occasions something else will happen that causes the turn to continue, however 75% of proposals sent to me result in the game becoming stuck.

	15-04-2004 21:36									#313
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quote: 1. I will encounter a civ and move a unit next to their city 2. They will send a stop trespass agreement (which appears accepted or rejected) on their turn and I end up being unable to move units (their turn) or end the turn (since it is their turn).

It doesn't get the game stuck for me. I still can click the OK button, if it appears as "accepted", or the OK or Threat button, if it appears as "rejected". But at least it's good to see that the bug doesn't only happen to me, so hopefully it will be fixed soon!

	15-04-2004 21:51									#314
	Re: Suggestion for building effects granted by wonders Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Flinx I too would like to see something different done here. Suggestions: - Have a check box in the options menu to have buildings whose effects are granted by a wonder to not appear - Change the appearance of building names whose effects are granted by a wonder e.g. grey and/or italic and/or asterisk Hygia Sophia gives the effect of a shrine in each city so building that shrine does nothing to increase happiness. If you want to increase the happiness of a city and you have Hygia Sophia, don’t bother building a shrine. If you want to make sure you do not take a happiness hit when Hygia Sophia becomes obsolete, then build the shrine prior. The second is the reason to have the (option to have the) shrine on the buildable list; the first is the reason to remove or highlight the shrine.

A way to make some buildings obsolete or unbuildable would be nice. Either because a wonder replaces or a tech, say monotheism makes shrines obsolete so you can only build churches. It would add to a modernization feel.

	15-04-2004 21:52									#315
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Well, you can say that shrines become temples later on, and churches later... IMO, having to upgrade buildings which would become obsolete would add little to gameplay.

Oh, and I believe that buildings granted by wonders should be highlited on the build queue, but not removed from it - you may choose to build them, after all, as part of the planning for that wonder becoming obsolete.

	15-04-2004 22:27									#316
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I think I know what's causing the diplomacy bug and should be able to fix it later tonight.

	15-04-2004 22:34									#317
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Peter, can you elaborate?

	15-04-2004 22:42									#318
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Another bug: emptying the build queue by double clicking on items in it causes a bad effect, if there is more than one item in the queue (at least I think so).

The effect is that the game apparently crashes, but its process remains running, so it hogs the CPU resources and slows down the computer unless terminated.

Update: doing that with one item in the queue, for me, really crashes the game, with its process properly gone.

	15-04-2004 23:42									#319
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It's in one of those SLIC AI functions that were recently added. I was getting it, too, but just commented a line out rather than fixing it. The original Activision code should work; I'm checking it now.

	16-04-2004 00:02									#320
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quote: Originally posted by Colwyn I know Ive asked this before but since things are moving along nicely now one of the first things that will improve the games AI by about 1000% is to define the code change to reduce the max # of units in a stack to less than 12. Ie I think 5 or 7 would be best as once the human player creates 2-3 super stacks they clean up b/c the AI will never optimise their stacks and once lost their 2 defenders in each city will fall like domino's esp with mv>1 stacks. The code is open, can anyone get back to us on if it can be done, i would hope/expect it to be a simple script maxstacksize=12 or something. If so lets playtest I'd be very surprised if this doesn't improve CTP2 AI alot.

And I should now answer this, I don't think it really improves the game the AI nevertheless does not know how to stack its units properly. So in that case we should remove stacking ability entirely, the AI also don't know how to use diplomacy, so let's remove it as well, it has also no idea how to use sea transporters, so let's remove them to improve the AI, the AI can't use air units so let's remove them, they AI can't use the other sea units either so let's remove them, also it can't use entertainers and the other specialist so let's remove them, etc...

Well I could continue for ages, but all I want to say with it is if the AI can't use a feature properly then we have to change it so that the AI can use them and not just remove them. Because taking away features means taking away fun. And you have to wonder why the makers of CTP2 increased the stack size from 9 to 12, of course to make the player happy, the opposite would of course make the player less happy.

-Martin

	16-04-2004 00:04									#321
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BTW Martin, you have yourself proved that the AI can actually use transports properly for moving its troops to where required - with the GoodMod SLIC it appears to do just that.

	16-04-2004 01:25									#322
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quote: Originally posted by Peter Triggs It's in one of those SLIC AI functions that were recently added. I was getting it, too, but just commented a line out rather than fixing it. The original Activision code should work; I'm checking it now.

Peter,

In case you want to test it: the following save file has the diplomacy error: move the warrior south and press end turn. The turn of the second player (orange) will never finish.
diplomacy_error_save.zip

	16-04-2004 01:30									#323
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Well me and EPW just tried to play a MP game with bad results. Same bug as i mentioned a few playtests ago.... sometimes i dont receive any pw from the tax i set, i went back into lobby and rejoined (epw was hosting) and the EXACT amount of pw i shouldve been collecting was all there as it shouldve been when i collected it. Rejoining does work every time probably because it resynchs from epw's side and he doesnt get the bug.

EPW also got crashes to desktop, once in the middle of his turn, and one in the middle of mine, but only epw crashed. We played with a small mod to some units and tile imps and if only epw was CTD it could be that we have different installations, but if that was so, id be the one to get kicked because i wasnt host. Im thinking this was the bug Solver mentioned by double clicking to delete items from the build queue, when i did that then epw got kicked IIRC.

	16-04-2004 10:38									#324
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quote: Originally posted by Martin Gühmann And I should now answer this, I don't think it really improves the game -Martin

I knew my opinion would raise a few eyebrows but i'd still appreciate it if someone in the know(like you) could let me know if it is possible, have a look a the code, that way once its been figured out we all will have the choice to decide what we as players might like.

I loved CTP but found CTP2 increased stack not to my liking, if you can fix that for me with a code change you will have a CTP2 player again!

	16-04-2004 12:12									#325
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Another bug: emptying the build queue by double clicking on items in it causes a bad effect, if there is more than one item in the queue (at least I think so). The effect is that the game apparently crashes, but its process remains running, so it hogs the CPU resources and slows down the computer unless terminated. Update: doing that with one item in the queue, for me, really crashes the game, with its process properly gone.

Solver,

are you talking about normal or our version?

I never had any problem with this on either...........

I used it quite a lot, or better to say only...........

	16-04-2004 16:23									#326
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Double-clicking on a build queue with only 1 item will cause a crash with the latest playtest release (source 2004.04.10 or later). I have located the problem, and will work on a fix this evening.

	16-04-2004 16:35									#327
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quote: Originally posted by Fromafar Double-clicking on a build queue with only 1 item will cause a crash with the latest playtest release (source 2004.04.10 or later). I have located the problem, and will work on a fix this evening.

Ahhhh, OK.......so it is a bug we introduced so we can't blame Activision.........

	16-04-2004 21:49									#328
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quote: Double-clicking on a build queue with only 1 item will cause a crash with the latest playtest release (source 2004.04.10 or later). I have located the problem, and will work on a fix this evening.

Clicking on a city in National Manager if its production queue is empty produces the same crash.

	16-04-2004 22:15									#329
	Re: But is it possible Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Colwyn I knew my opinion would raise a few eyebrows but i'd still appreciate it if someone in the know(like you) could let me know if it is possible, have a look a the code, that way once its been figured out we all will have the choice to decide what we as players might like.

Of course it is possible, we have the source code actual it is just a constant defined in ..\ctp2_code\gs\utility\gstypes.h:

#define k_MAX_ARMY_SIZE 12

And a remark suggesting to decrease the army size for everyone and suggesting to allow the player to select the army size are two different things, epeacilly if you know that noone would like it. Allowing the user to select the army size is definatly a good thing, that means the player should be allowed to select a army size from let's say 6 to 32 or whatever for the whole game. For that idea you find someone to implement it, but understand that this may not has top priority.

quote: Originally posted by Colwyn I loved CTP but found CTP2 increased stack not to my liking, if you can fix that for me with a code change you will have a CTP2 player again!

That leads me to the question why don't you like the increased army size limit.

-Martin

	17-04-2004 00:38									#330
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quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora Well me and EPW just tried to play a MP game with bad results. Same bug as i mentioned a few playtests ago.... sometimes i dont receive any pw from the tax i set, i went back into lobby and rejoined (epw was hosting) and the EXACT amount of pw i shouldve been collecting was all there as it shouldve been when i collected it. Rejoining does work every time probably because it resynchs from epw's side and he doesnt get the bug. EPW also got crashes to desktop, once in the middle of his turn, and one in the middle of mine, but only epw crashed. We played with a small mod to some units and tile imps and if only epw was CTD it could be that we have different installations, but if that was so, id be the one to get kicked because i wasnt host. Im thinking this was the bug Solver mentioned by double clicking to delete items from the build queue, when i did that then epw got kicked IIRC.

Hi Maq,

I believe this is inherent to the Activision code as both my brother and I experience it quite often playing the 'Vanilla w/ Sprinkles' version. It only happens to the non-host and your 'fix' seems to work. However, to do that kind of fix you have to wait until all TIs and Terra is done so you don't end up with the 'other' problem--CTD. If you play long enough it WILL give you all of your PW though. Somehow it tracks how much you have and will EVENTUALLY give it back. Even if you are accumulating it for like 10 turns!