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Bereta_Eder
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if you think that's trashing, then its your right
i was speaking about not unifyable differences though
differences - not positions in a value system - a very common disease in someparts of the world
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Bereta_Eder
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kidicious, there is no single "western civ" to have its achievements" claimed for it.
there a very very loose european civ that has huge cutting lines and a great number oflinesbetween itself.
US is something different compeltly, and europe is not one either.
and there certaintly is no one "Western civ"
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Bereta_Eder
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certaintly not historically but also at present
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Bereta_Eder
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You can study the historical events of a certain geographical area but from there on trying to give it a never existed attribute is simply false. Luckily few ever did it and most of them also acknowledge that they had to revert to arbitrary theoritical creations moslty for teaching cohesion pruproses.
"west" doesnt exist, never had.
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Bereta_Eder
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But that's what pumped it, it was a nouvueate of th eearly 19th century. a name given to something that doesnt exist by a bunch of theoriticians then pumped up for other aims.
however to claim one such unifying and homogenious thing exists is hilarious.
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Bereta_Eder
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hungtoington doesnt even enter the equation BTW.
he's been shot down so many times it isnt even funny
there are others claiming a western civ with much more potent arguments - oh wait coming to think about it, there are none. its all a theoritical come together of facts and the lesson is simply called like that.
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Bereta_Eder
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to claim as starting point the hellenistic times is even more hilarious. to claim unifying transendence between the diffirent european cultural and structural entitis is hilarious too, to claim an historical continuous depth and progression too, well that's just absurd.
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Bereta_Eder
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political aims and societal mythomotors do not equal historical accuracy. never did. thats why they're called differently
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Bereta_Eder
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It was pumped up as a cold war stunt.
Hungtington isnt even worth discussing, he's refuted too easily.
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Bereta_Eder
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BTW that doesnt go to say civs are defined as national sociostructural entities which end where the state's frontiers end of course. this would also be a gross misintepratation.
as for definingly differantiational "western" progression through history there is no such thing
and US (in parts) has little to do with what was baptized "western" which was a loose "european" historic progression but so fragmatised and different it cant be viewed as one or unique and certaintly not continuous or having any defferantial aspects which would give it even a hint of homogeniousness (no matter what is being attempted at present but for "noble" as some see it political aims)
Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 23-12-2003 at 23:31
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VetLegion
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Back to the thread subject..
I have indeed read GG&S a couple of years ago so I was aware of that explanation, which is basically geographic determinism. I was curious if other regions, particularly the east (China, India, Japan) offer any original interpretations. Thanks everyone for the opinions you expressed.
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Bereta_Eder
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Each civ has its own mythomotors. Dont make the mistake of thinking that the way you interpret or learn to view and evaluate things is the same as others do.
I'm sure China's educational system and peoples' views regard themselves as top dogs, in part based on half truths as is the same everywhere.
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Lord Merciless
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The Western civilization invents the following:
- Modern ideologies, such as representative democracy, communism, and nationalism.
- Modern forms of government, such as a constitution, division of power, independent judiciary, the police, and the totalitarian state.
- Modern science.
- Modern engineering, including the very forum you are posting your stuff on.
- Modern military, including its organization and weaponry.
Any country that rejects the above are doomed to languish in poverty and weakness. Example: Islamic states except Malaysia.
Any country that embraces them are destined to prosper. Example: East Asia, with China being the most recent one.
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Lord Merciless
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
I'm sure China's educational system and peoples' views regard themselves as top dogs. |
That's true, and they do it to a degree that will put even us Americans to shame.
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Bereta_Eder
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that's not a refute.
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Bereta_Eder
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hungigton's theory is filled with holes, basically because he tries to make the world fit his theory than vice versa. his defining criteria dont match. nor does the world's conflicts can be explained using his criteria
go and see previous posts for that.
I'd really like to see some more tangible and non politically motivated theories about the one "Western civ" but I doubt anyone can produce them.
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VetLegion
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Actually the short refutation of Huntington paiktis posted (not written by him I think) is quite good.
And paiktis since you seem bent on going on with your crusade - if all other definitions are false, how would you define "the west"?
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23-12-2003 21:59
the unique mathematician genious of the "west" as it progressed superbly and uninterupted (LOL) from pythagoras to arabia to the franks and the eastern romans or greeks lol...
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