19-01-2004 00:40									#151
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JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has praised his country's ambassador to Sweden for damaging an art exhibit depicting a Palestinian suicide bomber.

Zvi Mazel disconnected the cables of a mounted spotlight at Stockholm's Museum of National Antiquities on Friday causing it to crash into the work, the artist Dror Feiler told CNN Sunday.

Mazel told the Israeli newspaper Haaretz that he did not cut or rip the electrical wires but unplugged electrical projectors that provided lighting to the display. He told Haaretz it was an act of protest.

The exhibit consists of a boat floating in a rectangular basin filled with red water, carrying a portrait of Palestinian suicide bomber Hanadi Jaradat and "Snovit" (Snow White in Swedish) written on the side.

Jaradat attacked a restaurant in the Israeli city of Haifa in October, blowing herself up and killing 21 others.

Sharon defended Mazel in remarks at the beginning of the weekly Cabinet meeting on Sunday.

"I called the Israeli ambassador to Sweden, Zvi Mazel, yesterday and thanked him for his stand against the growing wave of anti-Semitism," the prime minister said.

"I told him the government stands behind him on this issue. We have been witness to mounting anti-Semitism world-wide and in Europe particularly, and the phenomenon is getting worse."

The Israeli government had earlier said the piece glorified suicide bombings and should be dismantled. The director of the museum, Kristian Berg, told CNN Sunday he would not comply with the demand.

The artwork, "Snow White and the Madness of Truth," went on show Friday at the opening of a museum exhibit staged in conjunction with an upcoming anti-genocide conference.

Feiler, an Israeli who lives in Sweden and created the piece with his wife, Gunilla Skold Feiler, told an Israeli newspaper that the artwork was not intended to glorify the suicide bomber but to "call attention to how weak people left alone can be capable of horrible things."

Anna Larsson, a spokeswoman for the Swedish Ministry for Foreign Affairs, said Mazel would be contacted next week and asked to come and "explain himself."

"Then we will tell him our view that his actions are unacceptable," Larsson said, saying Sweden believes it is not acceptable to destroy works of art.

Mazel, speaking on Israeli television's Channel 2, said the artwork was "complete legitimization of genocide, the murder of innocent people, innocent civilians, under the guise of culture."

"When you stand before that, you ask yourself what exactly are people thinking, do they understand at all what is happening, do they have feelings, where is this all going?"

But Feiler said on Israeli TV that "if [Mazel] doesn't like it, and if this makes him very upset, it is possible to understand. If he wishes to argue, if he wants to object, but to behave like a hooligan? ...

"The papers here will write, if the ambassadors act like this, how do the normal people behave, the soldiers at the front line?"

Diplomatic sources in Jerusalem said they understood Mazel's reaction to the artwork.

Former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak told Israeli TV: "I can absolutely understand him. There are definitely instances where nondiplomatic behavior can send a message in a more correct manner."

CNN's Yoav Appel in Jerusalem and freelance journalist Dana Rosenblatt in Atlanta, Georgia, contributed to this report.

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	19-01-2004 00:41									#152
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KH, is there any way you can make your case without rudely attacking your opponent?

	19-01-2004 00:46									#153
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has praised his country's ambassador to Sweden for damaging an art exhibit

Nice fellows they have there, running the country.

Bunch of ignorant thugs.

	19-01-2004 00:47									#154
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dp

	19-01-2004 00:48									#155
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That CNN report has been supervised by The Jewish Lobby in the USA it seems. I have seen the film, the ambassador is clearly throwing the light to the water instead of 'causing it to crash into the work' like it was somekind of accident.

	19-01-2004 00:52									#156
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In Con Law, and Imran please help me here if I state it wrong, but the freedom of expression must be tolerated to the point that it inflames immediate violence and potentially causes a great deal of harm. A parade of Nazi's through a Jewish neighborhood is the most often given example of a borderline case.

I don't know if this ambassador is prone to losing his cool or not. If he is, probably he should not be an ambassador. But this display is extremely outrageous and totally indefensible to anyone who values human life and particularly to Israelis and Jews everywhere. The reaction of the Israeli ambassador is a textbook case where art goes to far and inflicts too much emotional damage.

The insensitivity of the Swedish government in this event is appalling. They focus solely on the ambassador's conduct as if he must tolerate any outrage without immediate protest. They should question their own behavior in this.

	19-01-2004 00:55									#157
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Sharon praised the action? Good for him. I hope the Swedes toss that arrogant ****ing excuse for an ambassador out of their country for shitting on them.

Ambassadors aren't in a country in order to act like dicks.

quote: KH, is there any way you can make your case without rudely attacking your opponent

Funnily enough, I've only insulted you and Winston so far in this thread. It might have something to do with the fact that you're both numbnuts and spend your time here posting incoherent ramblings.

	19-01-2004 01:02									#158
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quote: totally indefensible to anyone who values human life and particularly to Israelis and Jews everywhere

How about to the Israeli Jew who created this piece of art in the first place?

quote: The reaction of the Israeli ambassador is a textbook case where art goes to far and inflicts too much emotional damage.

Oh my God. You're treating the ambassador like a little child. If he's a child then he shouldn't be an ambassador. Reasonable people here (including a very strong pro-Israel poster in the person of TMM) believe that the work was not intended as a glorification of murder but rather as a look into what drives people to murder. No reasonable person yet has condoned the censorship of ideas obviously favoured by the ambassador and the Israeli government

Too ****ing bad for you if you see something you don't like. You have to just plain live with it.

	19-01-2004 01:16									#159
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Edan, I applaud your posts in this thread. They are very inciteful and informative on the issue of homicide bombers.

I know that's not what you meant, but it is classic.

	19-01-2004 01:17									#160
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Here is Oliver Wendell Holmes in Schenk v. U.S. on the borderline case:

"But the character of every act depends upon the circumstances in which it is done. Aikens v. Wisconsin, 195 U.S. 194, 205, 206. The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic. It does not even protect a man from an injunction against uttering words that may have all the effect of force. Gompers v. Bucks Stove & Range Co., 221 U.S. 418, 439. The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent. It is a question of proximity and degree. "

http://www.tourolaw.edu/patch/Schenck/

	19-01-2004 01:28									#161
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KN, as they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The artist's intent is irrelevant. It is the message actually conveyed to the recipient that is at issue.

I agree in principle that ambassador should be able to keep their cool beyond that ordinary people. The question here is whether the provocation was sufficient to cause even an ambassador to react in some fashion.

The fact that the exhibit is continuing to be displayed by the Swedes because in THEIR opinion it is not offensive speaks volumes about the Swedes and thier attitude about Israel.

	19-01-2004 01:30									#162
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I think a couple of people in this thread should cease calling others with a different view dim, stupid, dense and what have you. It really isn't beneficial to your cause, you know.

	19-01-2004 01:30									#163
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No, the fact that you continue to argue that the piece is so ridiculously offensive it deserves to be taken down speaks volumes about your abilities as an art critic.

	19-01-2004 01:31									#164
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Ambassadors aren't in a country in order to act like dicks.

Tell that to Cellucci.

	19-01-2004 01:31									#165
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quote: Originally posted by Winston I think a couple of people in this thread should cease calling others with a different view dim, stupid, dense and what have you. It really isn't beneficial to your cause, you know.

I don't need to be careful about what's beneficial to my cause because I've already won.

Plus, calling you a dimwit makes me feel better.

	19-01-2004 01:33									#166
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quote: Originally posted by cinch Tell that to Cellucci.

He backed down after we *****slapped him around a bit.

	19-01-2004 01:34									#167
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not very diplomatic of the ambassador...
the "art" was quite disgusting though. of course that doesn't justify vandalising someone's work.

	19-01-2004 01:36									#168
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You know....In many museums they have an American flag flying. I find this not only offensive but outrageous, for the American flag stands for a totalitarian regieme causing the deaths and hardship of millions.
So, under Ned's logic, I am fully entitled to destroying and desicrating the American flag.

Finally we agree on something

	19-01-2004 01:39									#169
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Damn you Tassy. I was about to make a copy cat thread where Iranians are buring American flags, titled "Iranian vandalizes American genocidal oppression art."

	19-01-2004 01:41									#170
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Commie T, just a small point. The Israeli ambassador hardly destroyed the exhibit. He unplugged a lamp.

The exhibit is still functioning quite well, thank you.

The statements by the Swedes to the effect that he had destroyed the exhibit were themselves beyond the pale.

	19-01-2004 01:42									#171
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Moderators.

I must request that you pull the plug on KH. He is consistently insulting to people he disagrees with. He even admits that he is rude and offensive because he gets his kicks out of it.

	19-01-2004 01:43									#172
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Yes it's beyond the pale. It's the worst thing that anyone has ever done. Even Nazi's wouldn't do something so base.

Little fact check here:

quote: "He pulled out the plugs and threw one of the spotlights into the fountain which caused the entire installation to short-circuit and made it totally life-threatening," he told TT.

	19-01-2004 01:46									#173
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I'd request that you put more thought into your posts in order to relieve me of the responsibility of insulting you, but I really do believe that it's not your fault.

By the by, that exclamation mark inside the yellow triangle at the top right of each post is how you report a post to a moderator.

	19-01-2004 01:47									#174
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I love Ned's dramatic turns of phrase.

"Beyond the pale"

	19-01-2004 01:50									#175
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A few points:
If this guy is an ambassador he should've made his complaint thru proper channels. Trying to electrocute people isn't a good way of doing so. I'm sure it would've been SO much better had his dumbass self managed to kill a few more Israelis in his 'protest'. The palestinians would have laughed their asses off.

What was the point of having this artwork presented at a Israeli conference? Surely the artist knew it would have caused a commotion? I'm wondering if the piece was created with the intention of being self-serving.

Speaking of self-serving, does this 'ambassador' have any desires for public office back home? Nice little springboard for him if so.

	19-01-2004 01:57									#176
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse I'd request that you put more thought into your posts in order to relieve me of the responsibility of insulting you, but I really do believe that it's not your fault. By the by, that exclamation mark inside the yellow triangle at the top right of each post is how you report a post to a moderator.

You are one more insult away from being restricted. I don't care what you think of their posts... but I care about you tossing insults around. And I would recommend you PM me saying you understand the rules and will follow them in the future, or I will just restrict you until I hear from you...

	19-01-2004 01:58									#177
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quote: Commie T, just a small point. The Israeli ambassador hardly destroyed the exhibit. He unplugged a lamp.

Alright, just to be more like them I'll dip the American flag in poison and put it into our water system too

	19-01-2004 02:01									#178
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quote: Originally posted by Ming You are one more insult away from being restricted. I don't care what you think of their posts... but I care about you tossing insults around. And I would recommend you PM me saying you understand the rules and will follow them in the future, or I will just restrict you until I hear from you...

See you around, Ming.

	19-01-2004 02:03									#179
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Great. Now the CGers will be *****ing about Poly for a month...

	19-01-2004 02:06									#180
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I have no urge to *****. I knew what I was heading for.