16-04-2004 20:31									#391
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Awesome kudos!

	16-04-2004 20:49									#392
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quote: Originally posted by curtsibling And this is dedicated to all the guys here who playtested or helped me put this together!

Nice one C!

PS: That picture of Palaiologos is unnervingly similar to his actual appearance. Good work fella

	16-04-2004 21:34									#393
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"Saviour of Sweden", OMG I'm getting blushed here..
Curt, If you ever come to Sweden (or anyone else here btw), beer's on me.

	16-04-2004 22:16									#394
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Absolutely! If you ever trek out on to Minneapolis, I'll booze you up

Not sucking up, but having Kaiser is thanks enough

	16-04-2004 22:43									#395
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It's the least I could do, fellers!

	17-04-2004 00:31									#396
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Same goes if your ever in the Toronto area Curt!!

	17-04-2004 00:37									#397
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There's a bar stool with your name on it in Cleveland.

	17-04-2004 02:44									#398
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You chaps are the best!

If you are ever unlucky enough to find yourselves in Glasgow, then the beers are on me!

	17-04-2004 03:40									#399
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Expect a welcome commity if you're ever to be in Norway (Stavanger) We sure know how to drink up here as well you know

	17-04-2004 04:59									#400
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Great job!

If I may make one small cosmetic suggestion, and that is that you change the adjective used by the Central Powers. As it is, their adjective is "Central," which doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You could call them "German."
I know that this ignores the Hungarian half of the Austro-Hungarian empire, but "Central" looks out of place, and anyway, Austria-Hungary makes up such a small region of the Central Powers that I think it is forgivable.

I said that I had just one comment, but here are a few small others:

Why is Bangui still rebel (should be Entente) and why Rio de Janeiro is still owned by the Neutrals?

Finally, I think that the alliance between Italy and the Neutrals is perhaps not the best arrangement, as Italy tends to declare war on the Central Powers, who then counter-attack and call down the wrath of the US upon themselves.

Curt, this is a great scenario, and I thank you for it!

	17-04-2004 05:30									#401
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I've only played a part turn as the Central Powers but there a few things you may want to address.

1. I find the novel way you mark the ZOC of cities a bit difficult to play with. I don't think that I'm the only player who prefers to play with the grid ON. However, when I tried it with the CP, I found it nearly impossible to see the RR's along which I wanted to move units. I had to keep turning the grid ON and OFF continually.

2. The first turn money bug is very bad. By capturing Kobenhavn and Bruxelles, the CP have little difficulty in scooping up all the cash that the Allies and Free Nations have. The CP start the game with nearly 30,000 gold.

I know from other recent scenarios that I have playtested (Red Front 1.5 & How Few Remain) that it should be possible to eliminate this bug.

3. In the descriptions of wonders, there is no explanation of what the Statue of Liberty, Flying Circus and Trans-National Railway actually do. Also, for clarity, you may want to consider slightly re-wording the description of Japanese Fishing Fleet to "counts as City Supplies in all your cities".

4. I believe you have substituted the term "intelligence" for "research". The definitions of the two words are so completely different that the change does not make sense. In addition, I can't see what connection city improvements like Postal Service, Picture Hall and Officer Academy have with either intelligence or research.

5. I think that the Resource window on the city screen might be improved by making the food, resource and trade icons stand out more. They should be emphasized because they provide by far the most important information in this window. Right now, the subdued brown, grey and faded blue colors of the icons tend to blend into similar colors on the map. Strong colours and slightly larger size would make them much more visible.

6. The description of Local Industries includes a reference to non-existent Marketplace.


Very nice design work on your part to make it possible to carry out Count Schlieffen's plan.

	17-04-2004 05:43									#402
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quote: Originally posted by AGRICOLA 2. The first turn money bug is very bad. By capturing Kobenhavn and Bruxelles, the CP have little difficulty in scooping up all the cash that the Allies and Free Nations have. The CP start the game with nearly 30,000 gold. I know from other recent scenarios that I have playtested (Red Front 1.5 & How Few Remain) that it should be possible to eliminate this bug.

This would be interesting for me as well. Please tell how you want to solve this, withour giving all cis 0 gold at turn one.

	17-04-2004 12:12									#403
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I have been seeing the Ottomans and Japanese getting a lot of units they should not have, is this a result of the computer cheating, or were the Ottomans and Japanese not given the Anti-Central/Entente propaganda tech, and that applied as what made them obsolete?

	17-04-2004 14:19									#404
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quote: Originally posted by AGRICOLA 1. I find the novel way you mark the ZOC of cities a bit difficult to play with. I don't think that I'm the only player who prefers to play with the grid ON. However, when I tried it with the CP, I found it nearly impossible to see the RR's along which I wanted to move units. I had to keep turning the grid ON and OFF continually.

I check and I see what you mean - I make a change to that.

quote: Originally posted by AGRICOLA 2. The first turn money bug is very bad. By capturing Kobenhavn and Bruxelles, the CP have little difficulty in scooping up all the cash that the Allies and Free Nations have. The CP start the game with nearly 30,000 gold.

An infamous CIV2 bug -

I wonder if it happens on the actual first turn, or the projected first turn. (determined via the scen menu)

quote: Originally posted by AGRICOLA I know from other recent scenarios that I have playtested (Red Front 1.5 & How Few Remain) that it should be possible to eliminate this bug.

Care to share the solution?

quote: Originally posted by AGRICOLA 3. In the descriptions of wonders, there is no explanation of what the Statue of Liberty, Flying Circus and Trans-National Railway actually do. Also, for clarity, you may want to consider slightly re-wording the description of Japanese Fishing Fleet to "counts as City Supplies in all your cities".

I think we all know the use for the manhattan project and statue of liberty, but since voluntary gov changes and nukes don't exist in kaiser...Well!

I will be making a readme that explains all, and perhaps some extra data in the pedia file as well.

quote: Originally posted by AGRICOLA 4. I believe you have substituted the term "intelligence" for "research". The definitions of the two words are so completely different that the change does not make sense. In addition, I can't see what connection city improvements like Postal Service, Picture Hall and Officer Academy have with either intelligence or research.

They are things that increase the population's brainpower...

I just got tired of seeing the term 'Sci'...

quote: Originally posted by AGRICOLA 5. I think that the Resource window on the city screen might be improved by making the food, resource and trade icons stand out more. They should be emphasized because they provide by far the most important information in this window. Right now, the subdued brown, grey and faded blue colors of the icons tend to blend into similar colors on the map. Strong colours and slightly larger size would make them much more visible.

Perhaps - I'll take a look see...

quote: Originally posted by AGRICOLA 6. The description of Local Industries includes a reference to non-existent Marketplace.

Well spotted - I'll fix that...

quote: Originally posted by AGRICOLA Very nice design work on your part to make it possible to carry out Count Schlieffen's plan.

My thanks!
I will strive to make some ameds to these little bugs...

I wonder if there something to be done about the money bug, without a massive overhaul...

	17-04-2004 14:19									#405
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Sorry, but I'm no designer and have no elegant solution for the money bug, only a couple of very simple ideas as to how it might be done.

One is to start the scenario a month early when countries are still mobilizing their forces. The bulk of units are so positioned that they can just reach frontier cities during the first turn with no movement left for attacking. I suppose that there could also be immobile, defensive "fortress" troops in frontier cities.

A variation of the above approach would be to start a scen normally with infantry in position along frontiers but with offensive units like artillery, cavalry and aircraft some distance to the rear and incapable of attacking.

What puzzles me is that in Red Front (I was wrong about How Few Remain, please excuse my faulty memory) it does not matter which of the 5 nations takes whose city, it doesn't get all of the loser’s money. I just ran a test to confirm that.

Last edited by AGRICOLA on 17-04-2004 at 14:27

	17-04-2004 14:24									#406
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quote: Originally posted by GoPostal I have been seeing the Ottomans and Japanese getting a lot of units they should not have, is this a result of the computer cheating, or were the Ottomans and Japanese not given the Anti-Central/Entente propaganda tech, and that applied as what made them obsolete?

Those crazy Ottomans and Japanese use generic Central and Entente hardware like field guns and horses...

Have you seen them with anything overtly weird? Like an Albatros or MKIV tank?

That might mean a unit has not got the right obsolete tech...

	17-04-2004 14:27									#407
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quote: Originally posted by AGRICOLA Sorry, but I'm no designer and have no elegant solution, only a couple of very simple ideas as to how it might be done. One is to start the scenario a month early when countries are still mobilizing their forces. The bulk of units are so positioned that they can just reach frontier cities during the first turn with no movement left for attacking. I suppose that there could also be immobile, defensive "fortress" troops in frontier cities. A variation of the above approach would be to start a scen normally with infantry in position along frontiers but with offensive units like artillery, cavalry and aircraft some distance to the rear and incapable of attacking. What puzzles me is that in Red Front (I was wrong about How Few Remain, please excuse my faulty memory) it does not matter which of the 5 nations takes whose city, it doesn't get all of the loser’s money. I just ran a test to confirm that.

I don't wish to mess around with the unit set up at this stage.

So, I might try keeping the game date, but moving the (shift-F4) game turn control to move it to turn two.

This would mean adding one to all the turns in events - but it is a small price to pay!

To avoid the civs having to pay a big price for losing a city!

	17-04-2004 18:31									#408
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Well, let's see here. It's now April 1918 and the the once great empire of the Ottomans is fluroushing once again. After taking the Balkans early in the war I turned my eyes on the pesky Russians who seem intent on retaking their Black Sea coastal cities.

The going is getting harder though as my lack of research is starting to erode away at my strategy of using strength in numbers. Numerous Bi-planes terrorize my troops and have managed to slowly widdle down my forces as they pick off units out in the open.

I plan to carve out a defendable portion of the Russian steppes and then focus my attention on taking North Africa from the Entente. Damn, I hope they haven't figured out tanks yet....

	17-04-2004 18:45									#409
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Nice!

Are you finding the attack/defence balance to be OK?

	17-04-2004 19:02									#410
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I'd say the attack/defense balance is on the mark. On the offensive I have use my artillery to punch holes through the enemies lines. The infantry are great for defense and even some offense, but, just like in real life history those damn flying contraptions are starting to make the infantry less effective.

My navy wasn't really so hot for shore bombardment when I started and I've since decided to forget it entirely seeing as I'm in a major land war. The destroyers are only effective against other ships it seems. True to history.

My only gripe is that the months go by to fast. It's 1918 and half of the WW1 tech hasn't been discovered yet. Can the months be broken up to represent maybe 26 weeks?

And someone wish the Prince of Wingers a Happy Bday

Last edited by Harry Tuttle on 17-04-2004 at 19:07

	17-04-2004 19:12									#411
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Indeed, Perhaps I should cut the paradigm to 15 and speed the tech rate up!

*adds to final list*

Yep, And a happy birthday to old Fairline!

	17-04-2004 20:20									#412
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Ottomans with Gothas, and Japanese with Handley Pages.

	17-04-2004 21:31									#413
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Curt, if you don't want (specified) units to attack on the first turn, and you don't want to go about the task of re-positioning a host of units . . . .

You can use the cheat menu's unit adjuster to take away all the movement points of units so that they won't be able to move on the first turn.

	17-04-2004 22:21									#414
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Good point!

	17-04-2004 22:30									#415
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Another thing that I just thought of:
There are a lot of improvements that "decrease mutiny risk," but as pollution is turned off, mutinies will never appear.

	17-04-2004 22:42									#416
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I am working for a solution on the unit proliferation problem...

Giving seperate trees for generic, Central and Allied types will do the trick!

I will address the other little bugs too - Then it's time for the final zip!

	17-04-2004 22:50									#417
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A quick change of techs has solved the unit problem!

Now Japanese and other minor civs can pursue aircraft tech without infringing on the major civs units!

Also
I will give Exile's idea a shot too, the scen now starts in july 1914...
You get a move to change your war production, basically.

I will post this version soon!

	18-04-2004 00:01									#418
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Huzzah!

	18-04-2004 00:37									#419
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I started a PBEM, but it is really quiet, we need more people (5), see this thread

	18-04-2004 00:52									#420
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Old chap!
Before you begin any PBEMs:

Make sure you are all running this new and final zip.

Check link for list of fixes!

http://cdgroup.org/forums/tbs/civ2/viewtopic.php?t=512