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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
So no commie bias in favour of military service, eh? |
I'm not a fan of the military. If I had my way, they would all be abolished. Be that as it may, I am still forced to recognize that voluntarily entering into a realtionship that may require you to give up your live is a significantly greter committment than marriage or chidl birth, especially since it's very difficult to walk away from a military committment . . . unless you're the son of a Congressman.
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Maturity in my eyes often has little to do with age. I've seen teenagers take care of their parents. |
That is not a normal or natural situation. This occurs only where the parents are unable or unwilling to fullfill their rolls.
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and why shouldn't you wait? You're already gettin' some. Why marry at all? |
Well, let's see. I didn't pledge and I'm married. Would have done it years ago too, if I could have afforded it. I have someone I want to spend the rest of my life with.
The simple fact is, most of us who didn't wait, get married with someone to whom we've found we're compatable. Even if we don't marry, we tend to form life long bonds.
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I trust the shepherd more than I would the teachers of today. What is new is not always better Che. |
Science is always better than mysticism. Observable and reproducable fact always beats scruffy nomad wisdom.
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And how often do both fail? We have had condoms, and birth control for quite some time now. |
Condoms have a 99% success rate. Condoms are far more effective than abstinence in preventing pregnancy and stds.
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Safe sex does not work. Even their proponents admit that abstinence is the only way that works all the time. |
Oh no we don't, because we know that abstinence has an extremely high failure rate. Almost 70% of pledgers have sex before marriage. Thus, their abstinence method failed. They had sex. And when they do, they don't use protection.
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Sure there is. Shouldn't you love someone if you are going to sleep with them? |
Not necessarily. You don't have to love those whom you sleep with and you dno't have to sleep with those whom you love. Having sex with someone you love can be great. It can also suck poorly. Having sex with someone you are passionate about is best, but passion and love aren't the same.
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As opposed to a commie who has already admitted to 'indiscretions' in his youth? |
I'm not ashamed of what I did so I wouldn't call them indescrtions.
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So why then should children wait for their entertainment? Why not encourage them to entertain each other as young as possible? |
Because they aren't emotionally mature enough to handle it.
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Well, this is where I say that I pledged BEFORE I was a Christian.
So obviously one need not be a Christian, in order to stop thinking critically.  |
At least you have a sense of humor about yourself. I can respect that.
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MrBaggins
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I've been doing both in the thread.
My first post looked at the statistics quoted by the above survey, to which everyone snipped, and laughed at. |
And then you moved into the Benaverse... which is why you're being harpooned now.
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Kontiki
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Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Kontiki:
No, it is possible for both of these to occur, but less likely than for the pledgers. |
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant to say something different, because this completely goes against your position.
In any case, your position is ludicrous. I can't believe you're actually arguing that people that have pre-marital sex would do nothing else except have sex, form no other bonds, and then get married simply because of the sex.
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Kucinich
Teaching abstinence makes people have sex earlier? Is this some sort of reverse psychology? |
That's kinda backwards. Sex education doesn't mke anyone have sex. Proper sex education where the full range of options is presented with accuate (i.e,. not Christian) information is presented results in children delaying the onset of sexual activity approximately a year longer than programs which teach only abstinence.
Christian based abstinence programs are the worst, because they teach outright lies, like condoms are ineffective and can't stop the HIV virus. Thus, when pledgers initiate sexual activity, they don't bother with protection, since "it doesn't work."
Ben, despite the fact that you think pledgers wouldn't b willing to engage in anal sex while simultaneously wiating for marriage, surveys have shown that this is indeed the case. Many pledgers are under the mistaken belief that anal and oral sex aren't really sex an that by engaging in this activity they are still virgins. While thy are certainly less likely to get pregnant, they can still pick up STDs, especially sine they aren't using the protection they were told doesn't work.
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Ben Kenobi
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McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:34
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quote:
I'm not a fan of the military. If I had my way, they would all be abolished. |
I would agree with you here. After all, I am a pacifist.
And I agree that military service would be more stressful than the first two. 
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That is not a normal or natural situation. This occurs only where the parents are unable or unwilling to fullfill their rolls.
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Not what should happen, but happens far too often these days.
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Well, let's see. I didn't pledge and I'm married. Would have done it years ago too, if I could have afforded it. I have someone I want to spend the rest of my life with.
The simple fact is, most of us who didn't wait, get married with someone to whom we've found we're compatable. Even if we don't marry, we tend to form life long bonds.
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And that's why I wait. I want to give this gift to my wife and no one else.
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Science is always better than mysticism. Observable and reproducable fact always beats scruffy nomad wisdom.
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As opposed to balding russian wisdom?
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And how often do both fail? We have had condoms, and birth control for quite some time now.
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Condoms have a 99% success rate. Condoms are far more effective than abstinence in preventing pregnancy and stds.
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when used properly
Abstinence has a 100% success rate when done properly.
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Thus, their abstinence method failed.
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Not through any fault of the method, but the participants.
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Not necessarily. You don't have to love those whom you sleep with and you dno't have to sleep with those whom you love. Having sex with someone you love can be great. It can also suck poorly.
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Ideally, should one only sleep with those you love, and love those whom you sleep with?
By indiscretions, I meant your critique of mushroom smoking in particular.
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Because they aren't emotionally mature enough to handle it.
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So then it's not about entertainment, but rather the proper area for intercourse. I argue one should wait for marriage, because it is a better area for intercourse than anywhere else.
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At least you have a sense of humor about yourself. I can respect that.
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As you do about yourself.
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Ben Kenobi
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McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:34
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quote:
But since the primary goal of such education is to reduce STD transmission and unwanted pregnancies, not just to have sexless teens, it's not only a failure, it's worse than teaching protection.
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It has worked elsewhere.
Given that we have been used to using contraception for the last 70 years, abstinence will take time.
We are starting to see the fruits in that 11% I'm talking about, and as that number increases, you will see more couples get together who are both pledgers.
I know what it feels like for many of them, that everyone else is doing something they are not, and it can be lonely.
Now I feel differently.
UGANDA:
The east African nation is making a big impact with the revelation that the AIDS epidemic can be curbed. Riddled with HIV infections since the 1970s, Uganda has found miraculous success by using abstinence as its prevention strategy. Promotion of abstinence through billboards, radio programs and school sex education curricula has resulted in a slow and steady drop in HIV infection rates, as well as new attitudes about conquering AIDS in Uganda.
"Uganda is one of the countries that attach great importance on promoting abstinence among our youth," said Ahmed Ssenyomo, minister counselor at the Ugandan Embassy, in a speech to the African American Youth Conference on Abstinence.
When the program started in the late 1980s, the number of pregnant women infected with HIV was 21.2 percent. By 2001, the number was 6.2 percent. The Harvard study also reported Ugandan adults are not having as much risky sex: of women 15 and older, those reporting many sexual partners dropped from 18.4 percent in 1989 to 2.5 percent in 2000.
The emphasis on abstinence in Uganda’s program is unique. In other nations with high HIV infections, such as Zimbabwe and Botswana, condoms have been promoted as the answer to ending the AIDS crisis. In Botswana, 38 percent of pregnant women were HIV positive last year, contrasted with 6.2 percent of Ugandan women.
Much of the program’s success is due to the nation’s willingness to look beyond the sexual revolution to the past.
"What we’re seeing in parts of Africa is communities responding to the epidemic by saying, ‘Let’s see what’s in our culture — how can we deal with this with what we had in the past?’ " Susan Leclerc-Madlalas, a medical anthropologist at the University of Natal in South Africa, told the Associated Press. "What they had most of the time was a way of regulating sexuality."
Many AIDS officials reject abstinence as a potential prevention strategy despite evidence that promotion of abstinence and fidelity have significantly reduced AIDS cases in Uganda over the past decade.
"Millions and millions of young people are having sexual relations," said Paolo Teizeria, director of Brazil’s AIDS program, at the 14th International AIDS Conference. "We cannot talk about abstinence. It’s not real."
Abstinence is often dismissed as a potential prevention method. Condom promotion and "safe-sex" initiatives have long been thought to be the answer to stopping the spread of HIV: Instead of encouraging people to curb their libidos, these initiatives have tried to provide "safer" ways of exercising them. However, in many African nations condoms aren’t looked upon kindly: there are a variety of urban legends that circulate in some regions that condoms are either ethnic cleansing tools or actually spread HIV themselves. (During the Cold War, the Soviet KGB spread "disinformation" that the United States created the AIDS virus to kill off Africans.)
"Ugandans really never took to condoms," Dr. Vinand Nantulya, an infectious disease advisor to Ugandan leader Yoweri Museveni, told The New Republic.
The abstinence initiative in Uganda goes far beyond those who are already having sex — it starts with the education and promotion of an abstinence program for youth called "True Love Waits." Thirty thousand Ugandan youth are currently involved with the program. Launched in Uganda in 1994, True Love Waits focuses on abstinence until marriage as a way to prevent all sorts of adverse consequences associated with extra-marital sexual activity.
"Encouraging marriage, monogamy or abstinence, delaying the onset of sexual activity, discouraging promiscuity and casual sex, reducing the supply and demand of illegal drugs or providing treatment to drug addicts … are the absolute most effective approaches to reducing the risk of HIV," Rep. Mark Souder (R-Indiana) and six other members of the U.S. Committee on Government Reform said in a letter to the United Nations.
The United States and other countries have yet to embrace abstinence promotion as a mode of AIDS prevention. The United Nations recently predicted that AIDS will wipe out half the population in some African countries. In Uganda, the proverbial sun is starting to shine from the rain cloud of AIDS deaths — and it’s looking brighter.
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT
Sarah Trafford. "Uganda Winning the Battle Against AIDS — Using Abstinence." Culture and Family Institute (July, 2002).
This article reprinted with permission from Culture and Family Institute. Culture and Family Institute is an affiliate of Concerned Women for America 1015 Fifteenth St. N.W., Suite 1102 Washington, D.C. 20005 Phone: (202) 289-7117 Fax: (202) 488-0806 E-mail: mail@cultureandfamily.org
THE AUTHOR
Sarah Trafford is an intern for the Culture & Family Institute of CWA and a Political Science major at The College Of Wooster in Wooster, Ohio.
Copyright © 2002 Culture and Family Institute
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MrBaggins
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
*SNIP*
Not what should happen, but happens far too often these days.
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Cite significant statistics demonstrating?
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Abstinence has a 100% success rate when done properly.
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And the world lived happily ever after, the end.
Outside the Benaverse, back in the real world, there is no chance of a 100% success rate.
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Not through any fault of the method, but the participants.
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However, you can't change the inherent participants... but you can suggest a different method.
(various snips)
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MrBaggins
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Ben> I'd say that there aren't statistically significant situations where children are demonstrably "taking care of their parents", to quote you.
I challenge you to refute this.
The reverse is easily demonstratable.
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11-03-2004 00:43
Virgins make the worst lovers. They don't have a clue what they're doing. It's painful, awkward, and not very much fun to have sex with a virgin.
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