28-07-2003 06:03									#151
	Put an end to popups!

July 18, Togas with CFC Octavian.

quote: Octavian_X> Hello Togas> greetings Togas> what's new with CFC? Octavian_X> Oh, the usual concern over this infernal border war... Togas> what's the latest? Octavian_X> The GL's escaped, and CDG is being beat into a pulp Togas> escaped?? Octavian_X> They managed to his defensive forces, making our efforts futile... Togas> are you guys still without iron? Octavian_X> A settler is going to found a city that will give us access to iron within about three turns... Togas> good news Togas> with them on the offensive against CDG, they must be putting more mil force into that front Octavian_X> How about you guys? Surely your production juggernaut is up to something... Togas> Trip told me we're nearly equal to GC now Togas> we've been building a lot of little temp cities and workers to try to dig out way out and get some decent land. Not unlike what we did in our SPDG Togas> in our last SPDG we had a jungle start and, by the middle of the game we had that jungle erased Octavian_X> I remember that. The origins of the almighty banana. Octavian_X> Would Apolyton consider joining the dogpile on GCA? You're borders are getting pretty close to the frontlines, and those mercenaries have to be good for something... Togas> amen Togas> to be honest with you, we are debating it to some extent Togas> we're really shocked to see CDG cities falling Octavian_X> As are we. Togas> however, we're not all that excited about keeping CDG alive and keeping ourselves penned up in the corner Octavian_X> But, surely it would be to Apolyton's benefit to trap the agressive Gamecatcher's in their corner. Togas> If cdg falls, we can then escape our prison, so there's a lot of people on our team that are pleased to see them crumble. Togas> I agree, it is in our interest to trap them. They're getting a LOT of land out of this Octavian_X> Then, join the war on our side, take the cities that GCA took from CDG, and just don't give 'em back. Togas> phone... Togas> back Togas> sorry about that Togas> we have 2 issues with joining: Togas> first, we'd end up conquering CDG cities ... although they're crap cities. It would seem somewhat cruel of us. Togas> second, we have a NAP with GC and our team is very much against breaking such things. Togas> we would probably have to pen GC in, wait for the nap to end, then strike. Togas> but, most important to us, if GC gets to that chokepoint, then we just traded in being trapped by CDG for being trapped by GC. We'd be in a worse position. Togas> so we're debating all this stuf Togas> what do you guys think? Octavian_X> Sorry, I was away writing something up... Octavian_X> Your concerns are understandable. Octavian_X> Still, we're feeling very uncomfortable. CDG has raised concerns about illegal tactics used by GCA. Unless things turn around quick, we may in be trouble. Togas> if it comes to that, my team may consider breaking the NAP, but it would be one of the most divisive things we could debate. Togas> you know a few of our team members, I'm sure. Most of them are very driven by honor and reputation concerns. Octavian_X> However, as I see it, these tensions will almost never ease. Apolyton and GCA will end up going to war, I'm almost sure of it. Togas> I believe it is inevitable as well ... it's just a question of "when" Octavian_X> Yes, the people of the Gathering Storm have shown that they prefer honorable dealings. I assume that carries over the ISDG... Togas> it does indeed. Octavian_X> Oh, before I forget... Octavian_X> I've been elected Ambassador to Apolyton for our Term 3. Togas> very good news Togas> Oh, one thing they wanted me to ask you ... do you have any plans to build a harbor? I know your war is your most pressing matter, but we were curious about it Togas> we'd like to set up future trades with you once it's in. Octavian_X> We would be very excited about trading in the future. However, the war effort has scrapped our seafaring plans for now. Togas> understood Togas> The main thing my team is debating is if, and how, we should get involved in this war. Octavian_X> Thinking about seafaring... We've come to the general concensus that your exploring gallies would be welcome in our waters, so long as it was understood that we would like to see the results of this exploration. Togas> hypothetically, if we did, and we sucked up those CDG jungle outposts they build RIGHT on our border, we would want you guys to understand why we're doing it. Togas> re seafaring: We'll make the map available to you once the war is over. We're tied by our treaty to you (and GC) not to trade WMs with either of you until then. Octavian_X> That's fine. Togas> So I guess my question is, if we did jump in and suck up some of that jungle land between Elucidia and our lousey jungle settlements, would you guys be cool with it? Togas> at that point, our continent would be a triangle, 3 powers, hopefully each of us with about the same land size. Octavian_X> I would be able to understand, however, there are some on my team who are concerned with Elucidia's plight at the moment. Considering they voluntarily joined our war, there would be some who would want to return the favor... Octavian_X> But, being stuck behind those infernal chokepoints, we couldn't do much anyway. Togas> true Togas> We're absolutely stunned that CDG with their immortals AND their GA is losing. Togas> we were worried they might conquer all of GCA and then turn on us. Togas> how wrong we were Octavian_X> Frankly, we also thought GCA was doomed. That's why there have been some accusations of cheating by CDG... Togas> yeah, I could understand that feeling. Togas> Do you have any other questions for me? Octavian_X> I think that's it for now... Octavian_X> Just keep us informed. Togas> will do Octavian_X> Well, see you later. I have to try to start this lawnmower back up... Togas> take it easy

	28-07-2003 06:04									#152
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

July 18 Poly with GCA.

quote: [q][14:05] * Lucky__ has joined #weloveto [14:06] Lucky__: hmm, undernet is slow :S [14:06] Lucky__: hi all [14:06] Togas: hello [14:07] MasterZen: hey [14:08] Lucky__: I hear you have made the acquaitance of our new ambassador to Apolyton, soda [14:08] Togas: yes, we have [14:09] Lucky__: and I heard some interesting discussions with you and Trip [14:10] * BigFree has joined #weloveto [14:11] BigFree: 5 against 1...sounds about right! 12:4)1 [14:11] WhiteBand: :P [14:11] WhiteBand: What discussions did you hear? [14:11] * WhiteBand has totally been out of the loop lately thanks to school crap [14:12] Lucky__: emm, I think the most interesting point was that you are polling whether to join the war against CDG [14:12] MasterZen: well, basically the issue here is invervention or not [14:12] MasterZen: correct [14:12] MasterZen: we're not too fond of CDG as you know, they kinda treated us like dirt at the beginning (and we have vowed our evil revenge... hehe) [14:13] BigFree: we are somewhat of a democracy, we usually poll all improtant decsions [14:13] MasterZen: but of course, we want to know your team's appraisal of the situation, are you going for a complete destruction of CDG? [14:13] Lucky__: as usual, BF [14:14] BigFree: Unlike CDG whoose teams make decsions based on movements of the moon and the tides on the Nile. 12;4)1 [14:14] Lucky__: lol [14:14] Lucky__: we saw that too [14:14] BigFree: what else could explain their silliness [14:14] BigFree: they deserve to be out of the game [14:14] Lucky__: well, frankly my new ambassador has hung himself a little too far from the window, not everything he said is the official position we have [14:15] BigFree: to bad [14:15] MasterZen: good, that's why you're here, to clear these things up [14:15] BigFree: we can apply lashes if you like [14:15] Lucky__: well, it was his first day after all [14:15] BigFree: true, lets give him a break then [14:15] Lucky__: nothing was wrong, but not everything precise [14:16] BigFree: what exactly was not precise? [14:16] Lucky__: well, I think Iīll just tell what is the correct position [14:16] BigFree: sure sounds good [14:17] Lucky__: we would have welcomed any military support until recently, but as it looks now we do not need that for the achievement of our goals [14:17] BigFree: which are? [14:17] MasterZen: so, you think Elucidia will fall quickly? [14:17] Lucky__: except if they start to get as lucky as CFC was :S [14:18] MasterZen: they could simply be hoarding units to defend their capital... [14:18] Lucky__: indeed [14:18] MasterZen: I mean, their other cities were kinda crappy [14:19] Lucky__: so first, we have no interest in any further advance towards your empire past CDGs capital [14:19] MasterZen: ok [14:20] Lucky__: but, we would not see it too positively if you break any treaties you might have with CDG [14:20] Lucky__: so a question would be how long does your current peace/NAP/whatever last with them? [14:22] Trip`: we had a NAP which was to last until about 20 turns from now [14:22] Lucky__: hmm, thatīs quite long [14:22] Trip`: however, there was a clause in it that said that if they perfomed any hostile actions towards anyone, the NAP was void [14:22] Lucky__: ah [14:22] Trip`: they clearly attacked you :P [14:22] MasterZen: and since they attacked you, legally we have no problems [14:22] Lucky__: indeed [14:23] Lucky__: ok [14:23] Trip`: is there anything else you'd like to ask? [14:23] Lucky__: yet, we would really like to achieve our goals and claim a favorable peace with them before they know they are dead anyway [14:23] Trip`: what would you like to acquire? If you capture their capital there's not much left :P [14:24] Lucky__: as said, we are not interested in advancing into that direction any further [14:25] MasterZen: so Elucidia and that's it? [14:25] Lucky__: but an influx of gold and the fulfillment of tech trades we had with them before, is rather necessary for us [14:25] Lucky__: yes [14:25] MasterZen: they're pretty much out of the game if their captial falls [14:26] Lucky__: you wouldnīt have a good future tech trade partner in us without such fulfillment [14:26] MasterZen: plus, I doubt they'll stand for being vassals [14:26] Lucky__: we wouldnīt ask for that [14:26] MasterZen: well with their 3 crappy cities left its not like they'll have much hope of victory [14:26] Lucky__: but maybe survival [14:27] Lucky__: being completely out of the game as the first civ site is kind of embarassing [14:27] Lucky__: they might want to save their face, at least for a longer while [14:27] MasterZen: maybe [14:28] Trip`: the issue has not been decided yet here [14:28] Trip`: which is why we have talked with Soda some about it [14:29] Lucky__: yes, and the point is that you wanted to know how we feel about it [14:29] Lucky__: so, summarizing [14:30] Lucky__: we would have no problems with a legal attack once we are finished with our campaign (which could end soon) [14:30] BigFree: uh, hello, we could attack anytime we wish [14:30] Lucky__: but until that time, it could prove difficult to welcome such action [14:31] Lucky__: of course you can [14:31] Lucky__: but it was you who asked how we would feel about the issue [14:31] Trip`: so you would be most comfortable if we waited until you were "done" with them, so to speak [14:31] Lucky__: yes [14:31] Lucky__: oh [14:32] Lucky__: and if we could agree on the border treaty you suggested soon as well [14:32] Trip`: okay [14:32] Trip`: as soon as our forum gets back up we'll see what we can get done :P [14:32] BigFree: the border agreements will have to come after any and all action against CDG has eneded [14:32] Trip`: unfortunately our server problems have caused a delay in the machinery of our team [14:34] Lucky__: well, about the border, we would like to see a slightly bigger border so as not to give chance to any cultural conflicts or such [14:34] BigFree: Puttin up borders accross claimed or unclaimed CDG land is not wise at this time, it is a ever evolving situation [14:34] MasterZen: Lucky, also consider that we will do what our team feels most convenient. We welcome talking to you about your team's concerns but ultimatley our team will do what it feels best for ourselves. If people want to strike soon, we'll do it. [14:34] BigFree: you never know if CDG may atke back a city or not [14:35] Lucky__: MZ, of course [14:35] Lucky__: but you ASKED for our feelings, so I told them [14:35] BigFree: cool [14:35] BigFree: so we tell you our too. 12:4)1 [14:36] Lucky__: ok [14:36] BigFree: how goest it with CFC? [14:37] Lucky__: nothing actually, we are still securing the mountain range [14:38] BigFree: cool, they prolly have little units to move against you anyways [14:38] Lucky__: we also offered talks to CFC, as most of our objectives were met at one time, but they rejected insultingly [14:38] BigFree: well, you did raze a city of theirs... [14:38] Trip`: they probably think they can still win [14:38] Lucky__: it seems they have no interest in any mutual cooperation with us [14:39] Lucky__: BF, not quite right, that was a military outpost with soldiers only [14:39] Lucky__: no civilians [14:39] BigFree: um any city has civilians [14:39] BigFree: or are you saying it was not a city [14:40] MasterZen: what's the difference between "civilians"? it's a game... :P [14:40] Lucky__: well, for example Tenita, the city CDG razed, only had civilians [14:40] Trip`: I think he means the city had units in it as opposed to not having any units [14:41] Lucky__: not a single military unit nearby and not producing any either [14:41] Lucky__: not quite [14:42] Lucky__: a city size 1 with 5+ units and 5+ around it, walled and near enemy territory is what I consider a military outpost, not something intended to grow to a real city anytime soon [14:42] Lucky__: [14:42] BigFree: not quite [14:42] BigFree: it is still a city with Civilians as you described it [14:43] BigFree: doe not make a diff to me whether there were 100 units or none; it's still a city [14:43] BigFree: lets just get definitions straight here [14:43] MasterZen: well, definitions are moot at this point, mind you [14:43] BigFree: all cities can produce and house military units [14:43] Lucky__: if you are talking Civ3 terms, you are right [14:43] MasterZen: cities are cities, period [14:44] Lucky__: but I am seeing more than just a Civ3 game in this [14:44] BigFree: well, that is the game we are playing 12:4P1 [14:44] Lucky__: anyway, thatīs not a point to argue over [14:44] MasterZen: exactly [14:44] MasterZen: we were talking about CFC [14:44] BigFree: Lucky, you cannot justify things by saying that a team should not have attacked your city because it did not have military units in it [14:45] BigFree: what if CDG moved all units away from their cities [14:45] BigFree: would you not still attack? [14:45] MasterZen: ummm, can we go back to talking about CFC? [14:46] Lucky__: I am not justifying anything that we did, we had that discussion a long time ago [14:46] BigFree: ok [14:46] Lucky__: we did never break any rule, any treaty or any trade agreement and we never will [14:46] BigFree: good [14:46] BigFree: thats good to know [14:47] BigFree: neither will Apolyton [14:48] Lucky__: about CFC, I donīt know what to get back to there, unless you have changed your position in this matter in any way [14:49] MasterZen: not that I know of [14:49] BigFree: no, we have not changed [14:49] Trip`: what are your goals in the war against CFC? [14:49] Trip`: you said they don't appear to want to make peace [14:50] Lucky__: then our goals are obvious of course [14:50] Lucky__: secure our achievements so far and find a way to be in a position where they would be willing to accept peace after all [14:51] BigFree: CFC's best choice would be to make peace with GCA [14:51] Trip`: probably [14:51] Trip`: if you fortify the mountains enough then it would be extremely costly for CFC to not make peace [14:51] BigFree: their personal feelings are overriding logic I think [14:51] Lucky__: we are doing #1 by securing the mountain range, as said above [14:51] MasterZen: I think they might want to make one more push, see how it goes, then if they fail sue for peace [14:51] BigFree: that may work [14:51] Trip`: well, we shall see [14:51] Trip`: is there anything else we need to address Lucky? [14:52] Lucky__: we will reply to any hostile movements of CFC accordingly [14:53] Lucky__: give me a min [14:53] Trip`: okay [14:54] Lucky__: oh yes, there was this offer of your surrender!? [14:55] Lucky__: [14:55] Trip`: shhhh [14:55] Trip`: [14:55] BigFree: sure, what are your terms [14:55] Lucky__: Trip: what do you have anyways, 20 Horsemen? :P [14:55] Lucky__: anarchy: No [14:55] Lucky__: anarchy: 40 [14:55] Lucky__: Trip: [14:55] Lucky__: Trip: we surrender! [14:55] Lucky__: anarchy: [14:55] Lucky__: Trip: er, what? [14:55] Lucky__: anarchy: I'll take that as official [14:56] Lucky__: [14:56] Lucky__: [14:56] Trip`: lies! [14:56] Trip`: [14:56] Lucky__: LOL [14:56] MasterZen: haha [14:56] Trip`: ;D [14:56] MasterZen: we pray to the RNG god, by the way, so we ain't scared of 40 horsies [14:57] Trip`: he wasn't pleased with us though [14:57] Trip`: and we ended up with all that jungle :P [14:58] Lucky__: your pray? [14:58] Lucky__: in those like 0!!! temples you have? [14:58] Lucky__: now if I were that God, I wouldnīt be pleased either [14:59] Lucky__: LOL [14:59] Trip`: haha [14:59] Trip`: that's what the Palace is for [14:59] Lucky__: talking about the Palace [14:59] MasterZen: we pray in our barracks, more useful [15:00] Lucky__: I have take the freedom of bying one of the best buildings in Apolyton to house our new ambassador to you [15:00] Lucky__: donīt cry if it looks better than your palace though [15:01] MasterZen: ha ha ha [15:01] MasterZen: you mean the little shack by the jungle? [15:01] Trip`: we'll try to make him comfortable [15:01] MasterZen: it's cozy, I'll grant you that, but watch out for the snakes... [15:01] Lucky__: do you get the message "xx built an embassy" in PBEM anyway? [15:02] MasterZen: good question... anybody know/ [15:02] Togas: I've never seen it [15:02] Trip`: I don't think so [15:02] MasterZen: me neither [15:03] Lucky__: hmm [15:03] Lucky__: oh yes, one last real thing [15:03] Trip`: okay [15:04] Lucky__: how much would you charge for sending us a screenshot of how Elucidia looks inside? [15:05] MasterZen: hypothetically, whatever it costs us, plus the photography tax, plus, copyrights, plus a tip... :P [15:05] Trip`: I get the tip [15:05] MasterZen: but we'd have to poll it [15:05] Trip`: since I'll probably be the one they send :P [15:05] MasterZen: how'd you guess??!! :P [15:05] Trip`: [15:05] Trip`: at least let me take an NM with me :P [15:06] MasterZen: nah, just a conscript warrior :P [15:06] Trip`: boo [15:06] Trip`: like MZ said, we'd have to discuss that Lucky [15:06] Trip`: can't give you an answer right now [15:07] Lucky__: well, we could be interested until the next turn comes, maybe a little longer [15:07] Trip`: okay [15:07] Trip`: hopefully we can give you an answer soon [15:07] Trip`: the forum having such problems is not making things easy on any of us [15:07] MasterZen: yeah, we're homeless :P [15:07] MasterZen: biggest civ site in the world and we can't get a friggin decent server [15:08] MasterZen: it's truly a piece of **** and you can quote me on that [15:08] Lucky__: lol [15:08] Trip`: http://central.masterzen.net/index.php?showtopic=528 [15:08] Trip`: [15:08] Trip`: Bet how long UnOrthOdOx will stick with his diet [15:08] Trip`: : [15:08] Lucky__: seems like all big civ sites have that problem though [15:09] Trip`: the poll has 63.64% for "Longer than Poly can stay up" [15:09] MasterZen: well, CFC seems to be much faster [15:10] MasterZen: I just voted Here UnO, try this steak! [15:10] Lucky__: without a working search function, yes [15:10] Trip`: I like a working forum better than a working search function [15:13] Lucky__: does your galley still live? [15:13] Trip`: Yep [15:13] Trip`: still moving along [15:13] Trip`: slowly :P [15:14] Lucky__: oh yes, a more vital question, could be a little early to ask though [15:14] Lucky__: how far does your territorial interest go on our continent? [15:14] Lucky__: if CDG would be "out of the way" [15:15] Trip`: just most of the border territory [15:16] MasterZen: if we went to war with them we would probably just be interested in their jungle cities [15:16] MasterZen: which are pretty crappy but then again there's not much to ask for :P [15:16] Trip`: jungle is jungle :P [15:16] Lucky__: hmm, thatīs really not much [15:17] Lucky__: well, we can talk about that if and when we talk about any border [15:17] Trip`: okay [15:18] Trip`: since you said you were going to stop at Elucidium, that would mean we would take the rest [15:18] Lucky__: sure, we would have no problem with that [15:18] Trip`: great [15:19] Lucky__: the question was more aimed at further expansion, i.e. past the northern isthmus [15:19] Trip`: don't really know [15:19] Trip`: that's really far away [15:20] Trip`: we would probably stop at the chokepoint, but I have no idea [15:20] Trip`: I just move the units around :P [15:21] Lucky__: lol [15:21] Trip`: [15:24] Lucky__: well, seems we are done for today [15:24] Trip`: looks like it [15:24] Lucky__: thanks for the invitation [15:24] Lucky__: goodbye [15:24] Trip`: no problem, a pleasure talking [15:24] Trip`: see ya http://www.ceruleanstudios.com[/url]))

	28-07-2003 21:28									#153
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

email from Kentonio:

quote: > We have three questions: > > 1) What happened to your spearman? Was he attacked? Attacked while inside > our cultural borders? 1. Not sure about the spearman right now. > 2) Do you guys have Currency? 2. Nope, i'll see how fast we can get it. > 3) If we can get you guys Construction from CFC and Polytheism from GCA, you > can get your free tech, perhaps Feudalism. It'll be extremely helpful for us > against GCA. Are you willing? 3. Yep if we can get currency quickly then we'll happily play along.

	29-07-2003 12:16									#154
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Chat with OctavianX of CFC regarding their decision on Construction...

quote: OctavianX> I need to talk with someone, RE construction... Togas> hello Togas> what's the news? OctavianX> From what I can tell, we've come to the agreement that we have breached our previous tech-trade deal. OctavianX> Because of this, we will not hand over construction at the moment. Togas> ?? OctavianX> We will, however, hand it over for an open declartion of war, or at least plans for an attack, on GCa. Togas> I don't follow. Perhaps you can explain. OctavianX> Call it a bribe, or just being mean. That's FortyJ's position. BigFree> hmm Togas> We went along with this plan with the understanding that it would not intefere with our tech trade. Togas> You know as well as I do how individuals like NYE will feel when I tell him about this. BigFree> so, we did nothing to cause our deal to go sour, Forty only wnats us to decalre war and is using Construction to achieve that? OctavianX> Yes, I do. OctavianX> Believe me, I'm working my best to change that position. Togas> Forty is going to sour relations with us really fast this way. OctavianX> I know. OctavianX> I'm just saying we do indeed have construction, but we're not going to give it up right away. Togas> I'm not sure there's anything else to say. I'm just really dissapointed. OctavianX> Give me a day or two. This little conversation will almost surely change some minds. Togas> I really hope that it does. We have an alliance and a new NAP that formalizes those terms. OctavianX> Because of that construction clause, FortyJ and others are wary of the new NAP. Togas> I hope that FortyJ doesn't want to throw away an alliance with us over Construction OctavianX> That's my hope as well. Togas> But please, for both of our sakes, explain to FortyJ the sort of people he's dealing with. Apolyton believes, and I assured the Consuls of this, that our tech treaty would not be harmed. Togas> This news will seem like a stab in the back to some of them. OctavianX> Apparently, FortyJ is of the opinion that the actions taken by bootstoots and CivGeneral were ones not to be recognized. I really don't know what's going thorough his head. Togas> nor do I. OctavianX> On a different subject... OctavianX> What would Apolyton think if we were indeed to hammer out a peace treaty with GCA? Togas> not sure. We have been expecting a war. Togas> We haven't really thought much about the possibility of peace. OctavianX> We're just looking for a border at the Balance of Power. Togas> that's a reasonable border OctavianX> If GCA ever decided to accept peace and a border there, the war would be over. Togas> Is GCA still looking for that valley? OctavianX> They intially wanted all of those grasslands west of Balace of Power OctavianX> Our hope is that their expansionistic desires were ended by Elucidium's fall. Togas> any new offers from them? OctavianX> We've been plotting a reponse to their offer for tech-trade negotiation. OctavianX> (assuming Trip told you about those messages) can't trade techs while in a state of war. OctavianX> Didn't you here about this message from Trip? OctavianX> Hi, OctavianX> we fully acknowledge the continued state of war between our two nations and your unwillingness to end it. OctavianX> Therefore this is not a peace envoy or a proposal of any kind of armistice. But this proposal is more a question, whether your empire is interested in tech trades nonetheless. We think we might have several interesting offers to make to your people and despite the state of war we are willing to agree to fair exchanges of technology that is not vital to each others military. OctavianX> So, please reply whether you are interested in any kind of tech trade in the near future. OctavianX> Sincerely OctavianX> Lucky OctavianX> GCA President Togas> very interesting Togas> how would they trade, though? OctavianX> In-game peace and out-of-game war, I assume. OctavianX> Sorta like the current peace/war of GoW and RP Togas> 1 turn peace. OctavianX> Our planned response is that we won't trade techs unless we have peace treaty signed and ratified. Togas> you know, with an alliance between us, and tech sharing, we could get into the middle ages, get feudalism before GCA, and end this war very quickly. Togas> I don't see why GCA oughta get any closer to the middle ages. OctavianX> We plan to offer peace and a border at Balance of Power in that message, especially in response to the recent growth of the other four teams. Togas> but if you do, aren't you completely throwing away your promise to CDG? Togas> their dieing wish? OctavianX> We're gonna attack again when we are actually ready to put up a meaningfull offensive. That's a given. is it? Togas> I doubt a cease fire is going to help win the war. GC has a better industry and a stronger military. OctavianX> Still, we need time to build up. OctavianX> Before we do have the time for putting up an offensive that actually has a chance of taking Balance of Power, GCA will have that army, and more, breathing down our necks. Togas> it sounds like a lose-lose situation. OctavianX> We've noticed. A peace time, to us, seems like the best chance for our survival. Togas> OK, I've been cleared to tell you the following information: Togas> we have found a goodie hut. Togas> We have aquired Polytheism. Togas> We are about to pop the hut and are praying for Curency Togas> IF we get it, we want to give Poly, Currency, and YOUR construction to CDG before we take their last city Togas> we would do this next turn. Togas> assuming we get currency, of course. Togas> it would result in CDG getting Feudalism, which we'd give to you. BigFree> but we need Construction before we pop the hut to pull it off Togas> constr costs more than currency, so currency would appear. OctavianX> ahhh.... OctavianX> And if currency doesn't come out? Togas> we keep on sailing for the next hut * Trip has joined #isdgfamtalks BigFree> then we hunt for more WhiteBandit> we cry BigFree> but it is an ecellent shot at keeping GCA in the dark ages OctavianX> I'll bring it up in the forum... Togas> don't waste our time on this. Togas> endless debates and bureaucracy is going to spoil this chance, and ruin our friendship. And distrustful leaders on your side are going to result in us not trusting you either. * MasterZen has joined #isdgfamtalks * nye has joined #isdgfamtalks hello, octavian. * OctavianX is beginning to feel a bit crowded. OctavianX> Hello all MasterZen> don't let us intimidate you * MasterZen brings in his bodyguards, Guido and Nunzio Togas> I mentioned to them in POly chat about this conversation Togas> and they wanted to check it out. OctavianX> I will bring up that possibility with the greatest urgency... OctavianX> Also, remember, bureacracy is something our democracy games like to set up. nye> Octavian. I am somewhat alarmed that the grave of CDG is not yet covered, and promises are being... reconsidered MasterZen> bureacracy is good insofar it is a tool to beat passion with logic OctavianX> I'm sorry to say there was little legitimacy of the promises made by CivGeneral and bootstoots. OctavianX> Discussion has been bogged down a ton recently. nye> well. that is unfortunate, considering that civs have taken action based on those words Togas> even so, Poly did rely on those promises and they meant something to us. They still do. MasterZen> plus, those promises were made days ago, it's not like you couldn't have reviewed them and rejected them sooner OctavianX> This is only a result of a lack of inactivity. People disappear all the time over here. nye> i understand. nye> however. nye> people come and go here as well, we do not change coats so easily OctavianX> Your concerns are warranted. I would feel the same way... nye> i am glad you can see our view OctavianX> I'm just the messenger. From a political standpoint, I hold little power. nye> has togas adequately outlined what could happen if we hold our present courses? Togas> Thank you for speaking to us. It's difficult being the bearer of bad news. OctavianX> Yes, he has. The log of this chat is certain to change minds. nye> Well, we cannot hold you to war that pits you in an unfavourable position Togas> In any event, please share our thoughts and concerns with your people. We are concerned for two reasons: nye> we would very much like you to consider the tech implications of peace though Togas> 1) That peace would make all 3 of us equal techwise. nye> if GCA catches up to us, we will lose a great advantage Togas> 2) That CFC is disregarding promises to Apolyton that we depended on, in good faith. Togas> and I suppose a third point would be about respecting the wishes of CDG, but we will leave that to your team's conscious. OctavianX> We would lose a tech-advantage if we were to sign a peace treaty. However, we are already at a disadvantage that would negate any sort of advantage technology gives us. nye> i see nye> what tech do you trade for peace? OctavianX> They are looking for tech trades in general, not ones for peace. OctavianX> We have yet to discuss any sort of trades. nye> what has been discussed, if i may ask? nye> oh BigFree> GCA can only have polytheism BigFree> they wil work on Currency next BigFree> CFC does not need that BigFree> CFC can trade to get Poly from us BigFree> possibly OctavianX> As I understand it, we're equal technologically. BigFree> peace with GCA nets CFC nothing but time nye> well, gca could trade poly to cfc BigFree> CFC=POLY BigFree> yes BigFree> true BigFree> but since Poly gets Polytheism form GCA.... nye> however, cfc could get poly somewhere else OctavianX> GCA and Apo would be our only sources... nye> yes, Octavian. and our doors are open to cfc, as they always have been OctavianX> As I understand it, other than construction, we currently have nothing else to offer. nye> we understand BigFree> we would rather deal Poly to you than to let GCA get tech even with both of us. nye> we would like to delay gca from that for as long as possible. do you agree? OctavianX> I do, yes. nye> then we are on the same page Togas> anyhow, I think we've beat this subject to death already OctavianX> Togas> Sorry if my bosses gave you the 3rd degree Togas> please bring this log to your team and if you guys would like to talk more, we'll be available. OctavianX> I plan to do that... Togas> Good. I'm sure things are clearing now for both of us. OctavianX> Also, can someone resend the save to thesim10987@msn.com ? Togas> *clearer Trip> :P OctavianX> the civfanatics.net server has crashed... nye> yes nye> on it's way OctavianX> Thanks. Togas> We've had a good history of trust and cooperation so far, and we would like to continue our very good relations. OctavianX> Thanks nye. I've got it. Togas> I hope that FortyJ will reconsider his decision. It seems to hurt things between us and may cause damage to our relationship that neither of us want. Togas> but enough of all that. ... thanks for coming, OctX

	29-07-2003 23:51									#155
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

email sent to Kentonio

quote: Kentonio, We just read that MRex posted at 1bc that you guys resigned. PLEASE do not resign yet! We did not take your last city as we found a goodie hut with one of our ships and we're going to pop it and ... if we get Currency, we will then get you guys Polytheism, Currency, and Construction (from CFC), bump you guys into the next age, get Feudalism to all of us, and then use it to kill GCA! DO NOT resign yet. Tell MRex to remove that post or take it back. Please wait a turn or two to see if we get any goodie hut luck. If we do, all of us will then have the sudden power to completely trash GCA! --Togas

	30-07-2003 20:34									#156
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: [09:08] *Veera* *Yawns* Hola Poly-folks ~_^ [09:09] *Trip* hi there :p [09:09] *Veera* Veera, from CFC. Just kinda dropping in to see what the waters are like in this chatroom. Only been here once before, and it was totally dead [09:10] *Veera* The most action it got was settler signing in and out :-s [09:15] *Trip* hehe [09:15] *Trip* pretty much [09:15] *Trip* why aren't you in the CFC chatroom? ;) [09:16] *Veera* CivGeneral scares me o_o [09:16] *Trip* he scares me too :D [09:17] *Trip* s/he :p [09:17] *Veera* *Cough* People weren't terribly happy about Octavian's little chat with ya'll a few nights ago ^_^; [09:18] *Trip* why? :P [09:18] *Trip* we didn't do anything wrong :) [09:19] *Veera* They were more mad at Octavian than Poly [09:19] *Trip* why? [09:19] *Veera* Quoting information that should've been kept in our private forum was the biggest [09:20] *Trip* ah, well, we can't help that :p [09:20] *Veera* Yeah. Forty's busting a nut over this ^_^; [09:21] *Trip* well maybe he can play the save instead of waiting 24 hours for Oct to do it from now on then :rolleyes: [09:21] *Veera* Heheh... Poor Oct [09:21] *Veera* Every time he gets the save, something goes horribly wrong [09:21] *Trip* :P [09:21] *Trip* so where does that leave us now? [09:21] *Trip* should we expect a note soon, or something? [09:21] *Veera* Hrmm... I don't represent Fanatika in any official manner :-/ [09:22] *Veera* I'm 'Ambassador to Elucida' [09:22] *Trip* LOL [09:22] *Trip* congrats ;) [09:22] *Trip* big job [09:22] *Veera* If I had known that position would be useful for all of two days... *_* [09:22] *Veera* No. They told us the NIGHT I was elected [09:22] *Trip* hahaha [09:22] *Veera* But yes, you'll be receiving a note within a day or two with the official position of Fanatika [09:23] *Trip* okay [09:23] *Veera* I'm certain you'll find it to your liking: you'll get your Construction [09:23] *Veera* Oh, and the reason why there was so much trouble over this? [09:23] *Trip* that's great [09:24] *Veera* Octavian made the proposition to Fanatika about whether to trade Construction to you... And he considered the motion *passed* on only three votes *_* [09:24] *Trip* haha [09:24] *Trip* very busy forum :) [09:24] *Veera* So he made the proposition without the official support of Fanatika. And we didn't catch it until, all of a sudden, he says we need to make that trade soon :-/ [09:25] *Trip* you guys talked with GCA at all yet? [09:25] *Veera* We've received an email from them, and sent a reply regarding trading and the war [09:26] *Veera* Someone sent a reply offering peace, but it appears that the citizens of fanatika have no wish for a lasting peace with GCA [09:26] *Trip* ah [09:26] *Veera* And I suppose I'm as good a person to say this as anyone else... [09:27] *Veera* Octavian was mistaken during his most recent discussion and his most recent comments did not represent the official position of the Fanatikese government. We will be contacting you shortly concerning this NAP, trade, and all related items. [09:27] *Trip* okay [09:28] *Veera* Octavian *is* the official ambassador to Poly, so I'm not sure why they're making such a big deal over it [09:28] *Veera* I think it's within his political domain, but eh... [09:29] *Trip* he sounded like you wanted to make peace then, so I was just curious :p [09:29] *Veera* Some people do. [09:29] *Veera* More people don't [09:29] *Veera* And we're a democracy, so... I think you can make the inference [09:29] *Trip* it's probably for the best... if peace is made GCA will get much stronger [09:30] *Veera* There are a few other things that need to be talked about, but I'm pushing my boundaries as a citizen anyway [09:31] *Trip* and ambassador to CDG ;)

	03-08-2003 09:11									#157
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Trying to get a final answer.

quote: Hey Octavian, We're sitting on the turn for a bit here while we try to get final answers from everyone. What is the final word from CFC regarding the trade for construction? If we can get it, great, this will help all of us. If not, then we'd like to know, so that we can finally carry through with eliminating CDG (and that way their members don't have to keep waiting for awhile before they can join other teams). Let me know if there is anything you need to slam this deal through. Hopefully we can quickly work this out. Dave WhiteBandit Apolyton Foreign Affairs Ministry

	03-08-2003 09:37									#158
	And a response! Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Let's see... His Imperial Majesty FortyJ has requested the following message be sent to the Apolytonian people. ~Octavian X, Ambassador of the Empire of Fanatikou to the people of Apolytonia. We, the good people of Fanatikou, recognize that we have no greater friend and ally than the fair people of Apolytonia. We are indeed Blood Brothers as we had initially set forth so many turns ago. The fall of Elucidia has indeed shaken the foundation of our continent and, as brothers, we must take action lest the evil that rid the world of our Elucidian brethren exact the same fate upon us both. Fortunately, Elucidia's dying wishes may prove to be the foundation for a greater and stronger bond than we ourselves could possibly have imagined before this day. We are now faced with the opportunity to forge a partnership that could launch both of our nations to unparalleled glory. We propose the following: 1. Full and total parity in technology between our two nations as of this moment - both in what we know and are currently studying. 2. That we share our world maps so that we can better devise a strategy to deal with our mutual enemy. 3. That neither nation shall participate in any trading of any sorts with the Gamecatcher Alliance. 4. That Apolytonia join in the defense of our mutual survival, for if Fanatikou falls, then Apolytonia will surely be next. I urge you to accept this proposal for the betterment of both of our nations. Let us honor not only the memory of Elucidia, but also the dying wishes of those souls who have so generously presented us with the means to leapfrog the rest of the continent, nay, the world, in both technology and power. Our nations united can accomplish much more than if we remain divided. On behalf of your Blood Brothers in the South, FortyJ President of Fanatikou

	04-08-2003 02:42									#159
	Put an end to popups!

In response to that piece of crap which FortJ sent us, I have sent CFC the following:

quote: I have been asked to send you the following regarding FortyJ's latest proposal to us. Regards, -MZ --------------------------- To Fanatikou In response to the lastest proposal sent by Fanatikou, Apolyton would like to first and foremost reafirm it's friendship with Fanatikou and it's committment to upholding the last wishes of our neighbor, Elucidia. Nevertheless, we find ourselves rather disappointed by CFC's refusal to go along with the Construction for Code of Laws and Philosophy trade which was ratified by both our nations in writing. Failure to comply in this regard is considered by Apolyton a flagarnt violation of a signed agreement, regardless of the consequences which led Fanatikou to this unfortunate decision. Strong relationships are cemented not merely in treaties, but in the trust which results from respecting those treaties to the word. By failing to respect the technology trade, CFC has made it clear to us that there is no reason why it may not seek a similar solution to a future signed agreement. It is for this reason that we fear such a proposal will not pass should it be subjected to vote, until our people are confident that CFC is willing to honor it's past commitments. The people of Apolyton urge Fanatikou to reconsider it's position on the Construction deal, until that is done, it will be difficult for our people to accept further proposals. Regardless, Apolyton reafirms its total committment to respecting the final agreement regarding CDG, in which Apolyton shall join Fanatikou in it's struggle against the Gamecatcher's Alliance. We shall intervene shortly, and decisively until this common threat to our mutual security is wiped out forever. Best Regards -Master Zen Deputy Foreign Advisor of Apolyton

	06-08-2003 05:30									#160
	Increase Your PM Length

biggie chat with Octavian as me, WB and Togas gang-banged him in the CFC chatroom (ok, not really)

quote: Session Start: Mon Aug 04 22:36:53 2003 Session Ident: #demogame_cfc_embassy [22:36] * Now talking in #demogame_cfc_embassy [22:36] * Topic is ' 4Welcome to the Fanatikese Embassy - Trade Discussion - Joint Military Planning - Diplomatic Discussions ' [22:36] * Set by CivGeneral!~Simman198@2142b218. on Fri May 02 19:14:15 [22:37] [MasterZen] howdy [22:37] [Octavian_X] Hello/ [22:37] [MasterZen] how's it going? [22:37] [Octavian_X] Everything's se-so [22:38] [Octavian_X] *so-so [22:38] [WhiteBandit] oh damn [22:38] [WhiteBandit] M to the Z [22:38] * WhiteBandit bows [22:38] [Octavian_X] an interesting look into Apolyton's stucture of power. [22:38] [MasterZen] nah, just because he thinks I'm japanese [22:39] * MasterZen bows [22:39] [Octavian_X] I was curious before, but I don't want to know anymore... [22:39] [WhiteBandit] it's the small penis [22:39] [WhiteBandit] haha [22:39] [WhiteBandit] :P [22:39] [MasterZen] hahahahaha [22:39] [WhiteBandit] ah hem [22:39] * WhiteBandit sighs [22:40] [WhiteBandit] i apologize [22:40] [WhiteBandit] hehe [22:40] * MasterZen thinks Octavian's vision of what goes on in Apolyton is not as it seems [22:40] [Octavian_X] I'm suprised that wasn't punished by Chieftess' autokicker... [22:40] [MasterZen] anyways, were you guys discussing something? [22:40] [Octavian_X] We were talking about the recent messages... [22:41] [Octavian_X] but now I need to figure out what to name this new unit in the PTWDGII. [22:41] [WhiteBandit] "Tis Mearly a Flesh Wound!" [22:42] [MasterZen] yes, we've been kind of thrown off our recent exchanges, I've been trying to find one of you guys all weekend to see if we can reach some agreement regarding the techs [22:42] [Octavian_X] We're proposing full tech trading with an alliance against GCA [22:43] [Chieftess] Atleast the middle ages is split up into 2 main branches [22:44] [Chieftess] So, that makes it a little easier. [22:44] [MasterZen] well, we were expecting CFC to honor the construction deal, of course since you got those techs from CDG technically the treaty was over but a similar thing happened with us a few turns back and we nevertheless delivered [22:45] [Octavian_X] That's definetly a factor in our discussion. However, we are concerned by Apolyton's lack of action against GCA. [22:47] [MasterZen] well we told you from the start we couldn't attack that very instant. Would you rather we carelessly sent our army without assembling it first, or wait a little until it is decisive? [22:47] [MasterZen] we gave our word about intervening, and we will honor it. And very soon. [22:49] [MasterZen] but anyway, that's something we will do regardless of the tech deal, as it was a deal with CDG. [22:49] [Octavian_X] Speaking of the tech deal... [22:51] [Octavian_X] If Fanatikou does gift Construction per the original deal, will Apolyton be on board for our full allaince against GCA? [22:52] [MasterZen] as in FortyJ's proposal? [22:52] [Octavian_X] Yes [22:55] [MasterZen] I'm not too sure. My team is not to keen in giving away our tech lead just like that... [22:55] [MasterZen] but there are two options here I see: [22:56] [MasterZen] 1) regarding the medieval tech proposal (i.e. getting CDG to gift us a tech if we give them our ancient techs) [22:56] [MasterZen] 2) establish a timeline for intervention. Perhaps that would soothe your team's anxiety over our entering the war. If we could perhaps set a date would that be better? [22:57] [Octavian_X] 1) We did like that proposal, and are willing to comply assuming Apolyton had the correct techs. [22:57] [Octavian_X] 2) That would do wonders to reinforce our relationship. [23:00] [MasterZen] regarding 1), then why we didn't we get a straight answer over that? We've tried haggling with CDG all weekend not knowing CFC's position in this. We were ready to kill off CDG if it weren't for some of us pleading for 1 more turn to try and negotiate this... some CDG team members are wanting to leave to other teams soon. [23:02] [Octavian_X] Assuming that Apolyton does indeed have the correct technology, we will likely go through with the deal. [23:02] [MasterZen] I belive for construction you would get currency and some other necessary tech to get you into the medieval age. And of course we both would get the medieval tech [23:03] [MasterZen] it's a once in a lifetime opportunity for both of our teams... but we have to agree to it ASAP before CDG get's other ideas. GhengisFarb is hanging on a limb under pressure by the other CDGers to get killed off [23:06] [MasterZen] plus if we are lucky get Feudalism... imagine the look on GCA's face when they see med infs... [23:06] * Octavian_X is attending to PTWDGII business in the background... Sorry... [23:07] [MasterZen] sure don't worry, I'm not leaving anytime soon [23:10] [Togas] back [23:12] [Octavian_X] Let's see... In addiiton to currency we need polytheism. Does Apolyton have either? [23:13] [MasterZen] oui [23:13] [Octavian_X] which one? [23:14] [MasterZen] both [23:14] [MasterZen] which means we can get started on this the moment we get the save back [23:17] * WhiteBandit is now known as WB|[mp] [23:24] [Togas] hello? [23:24] [MasterZen] hello! [23:24] [Octavian_X] Sorry... [23:24] [Togas] I've been reading thru the log. Looks like we're making very good progress [23:24] [MasterZen] sure seems like that to me [23:24] [Togas] Just finished watching Phone Booth. Very interesting film [23:25] [Togas] And that Kiefer Sutherland is such a bastard... [23:27] [MasterZen] yeah, wierd movie, but good [23:29] [Octavian_X] Is there a definite word from CDG over the Feudalism attempt? [23:30] [MasterZen] well they wanted an answer ASAP. Ghengis was in favor [23:31] [Octavian_X] I guess I just won't play the save tonight so there can be some discussion, or at least a decision by FortyJ [23:33] [Octavian_X] Of course, I would execute the deal asap by gifting over construction to CDG and you guys. It's just that my last few unilateral actions have made several peope very angry with me. [23:34] [MasterZen] can we vote for you for pres? [23:35] [Octavian_X] Of course. [23:35] [Octavian_X] I don't think the votes will count, though. [23:35] [MasterZen] damn :P [23:37] [MasterZen] tell you what, I'll write something up in 5 min and sent it to you. We'll hold on to the save until we can get an answer is that cool? [23:37] [Octavian_X] An answer may be a good 24 hours away, but that'll work [23:38] [Togas] OctX, if I may make a point for the CFC logs: When we speak to you and we make requests or agree to deals, we speak with authority. If MZ or myself or any of our diplomats agree to something, you can trust that Apolyton will stand behind it. [23:38] [MasterZen] yes, even if we get castrated back at our chat [23:39] [Togas] we stick to our word and we honor our commitments. [23:39] [Togas] I am getting a feeling ... and I hope that I am wrong ... that you, on the other hand, do not have any authority to make deals, agreements, or promises to us. [23:40] [Togas] and that is something that we would, understandably, find very frustrating. [23:40] [Octavian_X] The people of Fanatikou fear giving individulas unilateral power. It can be assumed that unless specically mentioned as sanctioned by the people of Fanatikou, no words may be taken as official. [23:40] [MasterZen] which is sad since you are always a pleasure to deal with [23:40] [Togas] Unfortunately "the people" cannot all attend chats and make decisions. [23:40] [Octavian_X] Believe me, if I did have some unilateral power, this war wouldn't be happening. [23:42] [Togas] My fear is that bureaucracy is going to cause CDG to simply quit because they're tired of waiting to see if this deal is going to happen or not [23:43] [MasterZen] that's why we are kindly asking you if you can get an answer back to us as soon as possible before CDG get's any ideas... we still have time to cement this, but not much [23:44] [Togas] This deal is a no-brainer. You give Construction. You get Polytheism, Currency, and Feudalism. Why does that require any debate? [23:44] [Octavian_X] Don't worry, the thread that contains this chat log will be marked several times wit the word URGENT. [23:45] [MasterZen] hehehe [23:45] [MasterZen] but seriously, it's a wonderful deal, like I said, once in a lifetime, and just imagine if we get Feud... [23:45] [Togas] Urgent is all fine and good, but I don't see how your people could ever say No to something like this. [23:45] [Octavian_X] Also, there is fear that Apolyton is trading technology with GCA. [23:45] [Togas] Who's fear? [23:46] [Octavian_X] A good word that Apolyton won't trade those techs to them for the duration of the war would be best. [23:46] [Togas] Is there any sane person who thinks that? [23:46] [Octavian_X] Suprisingly, yes. [23:46] [Togas] why the hell would we do that? We're trying to get Feudalism so we can rush in there and kill them before they can get Feudalism [23:46] [Togas] if we give them techs, they can get to it before we've killed them. Giving them techs is dumb, they have NO TECHS we want. [23:47] [Togas] what could GCA give us for techs? They have absolutely nothing of value to give us. [23:47] [Octavian_X] There was a statement that feared Construction would go to GCA after we gave it up. [23:48] [MasterZen] we can assure you it won't [23:48] [MasterZen] in fact, I can put it up in writing [23:48] [Octavian_X] Thank you. [23:48] [Togas] God, do we have to swear on the bible that we won't do something as idiotic as that? [23:48] [Octavian_X] For some who could have my head, yes. [23:49] * MasterZen swears on the bible Apolyton won't trade Const [23:49] [MasterZen] then again, I'm atheist, does that count? [23:50] [Octavian_X] Depends on which bible. [23:51] [MasterZen] the Koran count? [23:53] [Octavian_X] Any religious text will do. [23:53] [Togas] I'm sorry I sound so frustrated but this opportunity is never going to happen again, and CFC needs to quit being sidetracked by paranoia and scheming and JOIN US (your supposed allies) in the middle ages. [23:53] [Togas] we're heading straight to feudalism and we want to take you with us. [23:53] [Octavian_X] Actually, we do have evidence some of the other teams have hit the middle ages... [23:53] [Togas] as do we, so we'd like to get there too [23:54] [Octavian_X] Evidence, in the form of stack of 16 barbarian horsemen... [23:55] [MasterZen] ouch [23:56] [Octavian_X] As that situation develops, I'll be in contact with you guys some more... [23:56] [Togas] Can we do a chat with FortyJ? [23:57] [MasterZen] cool. so you think we can get an answer tomorrow morning or early afternoon? [23:57] [Octavian_X] early afternoon would be the next possible time I'm online. We'll see [23:58] [Octavian_X] As for FortyJ, he seems to be busy with work. I'll try to talk to him about a time. [23:58] [Togas] anytime tomorrow [23:58] [MasterZen] great [00:03] [Octavian_X] Anything else? [00:04] [MasterZen] not really [00:05] * Rubarb has joined #demogame_cfc_embassy [00:05] [Togas] who is Rubarb? [00:05] [Octavian_X] SecureServ bot [00:06] [Octavian_X] This happens all the time. It'll leave soon.] [00:06] * Rubarb has left #demogame_cfc_embassy [00:07] [MasterZen] ah, like our settler2 [00:08] [Octavian_X] Yes, only they appear to be more useless. [00:09] [MasterZen] hehehe [00:12] [Octavian_X] Well, let's get this log up... [00:20] [Octavian_X] something isn't right... [00:20] * Octavian_X has left #demogame_CFC_Embassy

	06-08-2003 05:53									#161
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

This was sent to CFC as written agreement regarding the chat dealings:

quote: Apolyton, Fantikou and Elucidium Medieval Technology Agreement Apolyton, Fanitkou and Elucidium, in the spirit of frienship and with the intention to stay as technologically advanced as our continental rival and competitive against the other continent's civilizations, hereby agree to the following technology agreement: 1) Apolyton and Fantikou shall share among themselves all required technologies of the Ancient Era in order to switch to the Medieval Age as soon as possible. 2) These technologies shall also be shared to Elucidium, this will enable it to obtain free a new Medieval Age technology due to their status as a scientific civ. This new tech shall be gifted to both Apolyton and Fanatikou upon it's discovery. The mechanism for such trade is as follows: Turn 1 1. we offer Currency and and Polytheism to CFC, unaccepted 2. CFC offers Construction accepted back Turn 2 1. Apolyton accepts and get Construction, we gift all to CDG 2. CFC gets Currency and Polytheism Turn 3 1. CDG accepts all the techs from us and gets a Medieval tech. They offer it to each of us, accepted 2. Apolyton accepts and gets the tech 3. CFC accepts and gets the tech This treaty is binding upon ratification of the three teams, Fanatikou, Apolyton and Elucidium. Under no circumstances will a signed party withdraw from it's obligations that this treaty entitles. -Master Zen Deputy Foreign Advisor of Apolyton

	08-08-2003 13:07									#162
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Octavian caught up with me.

quote: Session Start: Fri Aug 08 00:57:48 2003 Session Ident: OctavianX [00:57] Session Ident: OctavianX (~thesim109@coin-as3-48.coin.org) [00:57] *OctavianX* Hello [00:57] *nye* hi [00:58] *OctavianX* I need an ISDG save. [00:58] *OctavianX* The e-mail didn't have it attached [00:59] *nye* wha? [00:59] *nye* coming again [00:59] *OctavianX* thanks [01:00] *nye* in the water [01:02] *OctavianX* thanks [01:03] *nye* you should have the 40 gold, and a couple of other odd bits [01:06] *OctavianX* damn... [01:06] *OctavianX* Should've asked for you to keep the gold... [01:10] *OctavianX* Mind if I ask you something? [01:10] *nye* what is that? [01:11] *OctavianX* What is the timeline for Apolyton's assult on GCA? [01:11] *nye* sorry to hear about the gold [01:11] *nye* coming soon. hopefully soon enough [01:11] *nye* are you under any pressure? [01:12] *OctavianX* GCA's Army will be able to attack Cha Ching in five turns, and I'm not completely sure we can hold them off,\. [01:13] *nye* what do they have that you can see? [01:14] *OctavianX* A two sword army heading for a city with just a spear, a damaged elite sword nearby, and two horseman which remain unseen. [01:15] *OctavianX* And how soon is soon? Can we get a specific date? [01:15] *nye* to be honest, if cfc were no concern, the longer the better [01:16] *OctavianX* That's understandable. [01:16] *nye* however, i think we may have to speed up, for your part [01:16] *nye* but we have no intention of being cdg v2 [01:18] *OctavianX* We've alerady lost two swords to two GCA horses in a bad bout of luck. [01:19] *nye* damn [01:19] *nye* when? [01:19] *OctavianX* The swords were on a mountain near Cha Ching,one fortified no less, and we lost both the GCA horse attacks. [01:20] *nye* what turn? [01:21] *OctavianX* Just now [01:21] *nye* crap [01:21] *OctavianX* Those swords were going to be the mainstay of the defense of Cha Ching [01:21] *nye* what are those guys sacrificing to the rng gods? [01:21] *OctavianX* There's something fishy going on over there... [01:22] *nye* well, some of it has been on defence, has it not? [01:23] *OctavianX* We've been acting defensivly since the beginnnig of this war. [01:23] *OctavianX* We can take a very long shot at that army next turn... [01:24] *OctavianX* But I emphasize long shot - two horses versus two-sword army on mtn. [01:24] *nye* yeah. that is long [01:26] *nye* do have the gold to take advantage of fuedalism? [01:27] *OctavianX* 40g isn't much. [01:27] *OctavianX* Are we sure CDG got feudalism? [01:28] *OctavianX* That free tech could be mono or engineering... [01:28] *nye* we don't know [01:28] *nye* just wondering [01:28] *OctavianX* We certainly have barracks, but not the gold. [01:29] *OctavianX* The gold would likely be used to upgrade Cha Ching's spear to a pike. [01:29] *OctavianX* Since it a walled hill city, a pike might have a chance. [01:30] *nye* yeah, 6 def could hold out [01:31] *nye* 6.75 Session Close: Fri Aug 08 01:46:54 2003

	09-08-2003 05:19									#163
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Session Start: Fri Aug 08 12:45:27 2003
Session Ident: #ISDGFAMTALKS
Togas> Greetings
Lucky> so, whatīs up?
Togas> The Consuls wanted me to talk with you about setting up a few things
Togas> We haven't really chatted much since CDG was wiped out
Lucky> well, they arenīt
Togas> and we probably should set up a border
Lucky> technically
Lucky> yes
Lucky> as we suggested in our last chat
Lucky> that should be an important priority
Togas> it is to us.
Lucky> of course
Togas> Do you plan on building any further north?
Lucky> nope
Lucky> we told you before and will do so again, we have no interest in any further expansion
Togas> Would you guys be fine with keeping the border where it is now? Where your current cultural limits are?
Lucky> well, they might expand in the future
Togas> understood
Togas> we plan to disband Cuido and move it south a tile, I think.
Togas> We got screwed by Ghengis Farb when he took over CDG ... he built a worker. We're trying to capture Their possum fortress and not raize it.
Togas> so we have to wait for the culture to expand.
Lucky> umm
Lucky> really?
Togas> yep
Lucky> IMO it just needs to have 1 point of culture
Togas> I think it needs 10 points.
Lucky> hmm
Lucky> maybe
Togas> Our research is going well. I'd offer to extend our tech deals, but I'm not sure how we'd do it.
Togas> Maybe we can ultimately sell you guys some tech down the road or something.
Lucky> we would be interested in that, yes
Togas> Master Zen changed the tech trade around a bit. What were we trading for Mapmaking again?
Lucky> Currency
Lucky> which we are currently researchin
Lucky> g
Togas> good deal. How far along?
Lucky> umm, around 10 turns I think
Lucky> itīs the most expensive for us to research yet
Lucky> 18 tech cost IIRC
Togas> gotcha
Togas> I think we're nearly at Republic. Did you guys want that tech or were you going Monarchy?
Lucky> well, as religious weīd like both, but one of the original plans with CDG still involved, had us going for Monarchy
Togas> that certainly fell through
Lucky> indeed
Lucky> and threw our whole continent back
Togas> Our whole continent is behind in the game
Lucky> you surely noticed that the other civs have reached the middle ages
Lucky> at least one of them
Togas> we did. We noticed the music change.
Lucky> we noticed the barbs
Togas> yeah, they're hard to miss
Togas> After Currency is done, maybe we can do a GPT deal for tech or something to get you into middle ages
Lucky> yes
Togas> then you guys work Monotheism or the like and we can trade it for Republic?
Lucky> at least the techs are less expensive for us now
Togas> True.
Togas> What's going to be interesting is if you and CFC are still fighting when Chiv finally comes around.
Lucky> hehe, yes
Togas> Anyhow, let me get back to formal business -- get a border worked out.
Lucky> let me try to send you a proposed border as well
Lucky> maybe itīll match
Lucky>
Togas> cool
Lucky> via ICQ
Togas> checking it now with our maps
Lucky> red line would be our last tiles, blue yours
Togas> that appears to be very reasonable
Togas> I'd approve it But, of course, you know the drill. I need to submit it to the Consuls, etc.
Lucky> of course, the more border, i.e. space between cities there is, the less likely are any cultural conflicts
Lucky> so that would be something like a minimum
Togas> we should both agree not to build cities ON the border
Lucky> you settling on the blue line might not be wise, especially seeing us having a cultural advantage
Lucky> yes
Lucky> we plan no further cities in that region
Togas> and we would agree not to cross the border with troops, etc.
Togas> I'm going to post this image in our forum and ask the Consuls what they think of it.
Lucky> we would only have some guards on our, i.e. red, side
Togas> I think they will be happy with this border, though.
Togas> Do you want to draft any additional terms?
Lucky> well, you people are better at drafting treaties
Lucky> we can make amendments if we feel that there is any need
Lucky>
Lucky> btw
Togas> We can do that. I'll ask White Bandit to draft up a standard border proposal and you can add amendments you'd like to see
Lucky> CDG might have tricked you because they wanted to try a last time to drive us away
Lucky> desperate last attempt if you want so
Togas> ?? they sent forces to fight you again?
Lucky> yes
Lucky> those that were in the two cities they gifted you
Lucky> probably
Togas> ah
Togas> how many forces did they send?
Lucky> 2 immortals and a spearmen
Lucky> LOL
Togas>
Togas> one last try
Lucky> but those could have defended their single city really well though
Togas> suicide forces, perhaps
Togas> most of them seem to have already quit the game. They've handed over control to Ghengis Farb
Lucky> yes
Lucky> disappointed most likely
Lucky> and really bad losers some of them
Togas> As you probably know, they've been muttering about "cheating" and the like.
Lucky> yes
Lucky> if you want, I can send you a listing of battle probabilities that I sent them as a reply
Togas> I'd love to see that
Lucky> which clearly shows that we had our share of luck, but in the majority we had rather less good results
Lucky> meaning less good than calculated
Lucky> and also, more importantly
Lucky> mongoose acted to their request and tried to achieve the same results
Lucky> and did so without ANY problem
Togas> interesting.
Lucky> but as you probably read at 1BC, they then even attacked him
Togas> that's good to hear.
Togas> well, not the part about them attacking him.
Togas> with "preserve random seed" I figure any neutral 3rd party could easily test the results
Lucky> indeed
Lucky> thatīs why it was chosen
Togas> Would you mind sending me the list?
Lucky> and it is not our team that repeatedly tries to circumvent the game pledge
Lucky> as CDG did with the time counter discussion AND the ongoing "refugees" stuff
Lucky> hmm
Lucky> on second thought
Togas> You guys have been very honorable throughout the game.
Lucky> it might not be so wise to send stats of our military abilities to opponents
Togas> don't send us your current mil stats or anything
Lucky> close friends, but still opponents
Lucky> well
Togas> we're just curious about win-losses. That sort of stuff
Lucky> I can send you personally the battle stats, but not your team
Togas> I'd be happy to see them. But I'd definately want to share them with my team
Lucky> well, those stats of course include numbers of our units and such
Lucky> and it isnīt that long ago
Lucky> so ...
Lucky> remember, we ARE paranoid
Togas> Anyway you can clean it up so that no major intel gets through?
Togas> don't tells how many units you have or where they are. Just win-losses. If spears beat immortals, things like that.
Lucky> hmm, letīs see
Lucky> here might be one
Lucky> Attack vs Goats (3 horse vs 2 reg spear):
Lucky> Calc:
Lucky> Survivors: 2.34 vs 0.55
Lucky> Retreats: 0.65
Lucky> Avg HP left: 2.26 vs 1.69
Lucky> Real:
Lucky> Survivors: 3 vs 0
Lucky> Retreats: 1
Lucky> Avg HP left: 2
Togas> that's a winable battle with good results.
Lucky> or that one
Lucky> 3. 3 swords vs remaining 3 reg immortals
Lucky> Calc:
Lucky> Survivors: 2.21 vs 0.79
Lucky> Avg HP left: 2.6 vs 1.7
Lucky> Real:
Lucky> Survivors: 2 vs 1
Lucky> Avg HP left: 1.5 vs 1
Togas> gotcha. CDG made claims about how their immortal stack was destroyed by inferior units, like spears. And CFC says things like their fortified swords on mountains get killed by horses.
Lucky> well, the latter happened, elite horse vs reg swordsmen where only 1 was actually fortified
Lucky> chance of success IIRC ~40%
Lucky> but of course the retreat ability
Lucky> which is high for elites
Lucky> so the risk was there, but the chances taken
Lucky> and we also attacked immortals with spears, yes
Lucky> 4HP vet spears vs 1 HP immortals
Togas> that's a good gamble
Lucky> of course, Civ3 is a gamble
Togas> I love 2 move units. They tend to survive most conflicts.
Lucky> yep
Lucky> thatīs why the risk was taken
Togas> and the longer they survive, the more promotions...
Lucky> etc, yes
Lucky> oh, concerning CFCs complaints
Lucky> letīs just take a look at their attacks for a second
Lucky> guesses of course, but good guesses
Lucky> at that time, they only had 2 attack point units
Lucky> so archers and horses
Lucky> and not many horses
Lucky> we calculated 3 horses and 6 archers
Lucky> any more, and the mil advisor power rating would have been different
Lucky> so, starting with the horse attack
Togas> if they use archers, you can see them coming and count them.
Lucky> Calc:
Lucky> Survivors: 2.2 vs 4.01
Lucky> Retreats: 1.21
Lucky> Avg HP left: 1.58 vs 3.29
Lucky> Real:
Lucky> Survivors: - vs 4
Lucky> Retreats: -
Lucky> Avg HP left: - vs 4
Lucky> not really
Togas> units where in city?
Togas> *were
Lucky> so far so good, not too far off
Lucky> also that 4 remaining HP is a minimum
Lucky> Calc:
Lucky> Survivors: 1.77 vs 2.25
Lucky> Avg HP left: 1.85 vs 1.93
Lucky> Real:
Lucky> Survivors: - vs 1
Lucky> Avg HP left: - vs 4
Lucky> note the SINGLE survivor at 4HP
Lucky> let me quote myself
Lucky> "Note that our remaining swordsmen had 4HP left, meaning they could NOT attack any unit twice. Killing one unit in one attack with the 2 attack points they had, has a chance of about 25% and they did that 4 times!!!"
Lucky> 4 times in a row to be exact
Lucky> "Now that is what I would call lucky. "
Togas> and so CFC gets "lucky"?
Lucky> so beware of CFC attacks, yes
Togas> yet they do tend to whine to us a lot about how they're losing the war.
Lucky> 4 times 25% in a row, letīs see
Lucky> thatīs like 0.4%
Togas>
Togas> damn, I need to go. Was supposed to be somewhere at 1:30 !
Lucky> well, Civ3 battles donīt work that way
Lucky> so it is always a little different than calculated
Lucky> but you get the picture
Togas> This is a very fascinating conversation, though. Perhaps continue it later?
Lucky> fine with me
Lucky> Iīll be busy doing many things at once though
Togas> also, I'd be loved and adored by my teammates if I could present more info on the wars. They're all dieing to know what's truely going on
Togas> our number crunchers only have CDG an CFC's reported "numbers" to munch on
Togas> and they tend to give us only the sad & unlikely stories
Lucky> well, now you have some old numbers from us
Togas>
Togas> I'll be back later today. Feel free to stick around here if you like.
Togas> And I'll get WB to send you a border prop soon.
Lucky> naw, too many windows open
Lucky> ok, thatīs great
Togas> I'm outta here. Talk to ya later
Lucky> bye

	17-08-2003 02:29									#164
	Increase Your PM Length

After his post at 1bc last night, I wanted to chat with Octavian to access where they stand. MZ helped hook me up with him.

his post at 1bc:

quote: Let's see... President FortyJ resigned as of turn 102. Former Vice President Chieftess, who now is President, has not actually posted in our private forum for some time now, despite the fact she is that active moderator of said forum. Imperial Minister of Defense CivGeneral hardly pays attention to anything enough to actually play the game when we go get it. Imperial Minister of Foreign Affairs Zarn just doesn't play the game, and Imperial Minister of Domestic Affirs Gingerbread Man doesn't have PTW, iirc. The Ministry of Science is vacant, leaving me, a lonely ambassador who can only play at a few certain times of day, to play the save game. When we get this mess sorted out, our turn playing time will improve. Save game sent to GWT.

The chat

quote: Session Start: Fri Aug 15 23:28:36 2003 Session Ident: #isdgfamtalks [23:28] * Now talking in #isdgfamtalks [23:28] * Topic is 'Please Notify us by typing:5 /notice 4our username 12your message. 1 That way we know you are here, please allow us some time to respond. ' [23:28] * Set by BigFree on Thu Aug 14 13:57:14 [23:28] * ChanServ sets mode: +o nye [23:49] * OctavianX has joined #isdgfamtalks [23:50] *nye* allo [23:50] *MasterZen* hellooo [23:50] *OctavianX* Hello [23:50] *nye* *nye* how is it going? [23:50] *nye* *OctavianX* It's going good, I guess [23:50] *nye* *nye* i read your blurb at 1bc [23:50] *nye* *OctavianX* ahh, that... [23:50] *nye* *nye* not much team left, huh? [23:50] *nye* *OctavianX* Everyone comes and goes. [23:50] *nye* *nye* how is the situation this turn? [23:50] *nye* *OctavianX* I re-recruited an experience PBEMer, but precious few are active. [23:50] *nye* *OctavianX* Our swordsman who was monitering the GCA army was killed [23:50] *nye* *nye* so, there is a blackout in that area? [23:50] *nye* *nye* a good player is a good idea [23:50] *nye* *OctavianX* A new lookout just departed from Jiang Mapi to attempt to re-locate GCA forces in that area [23:50] *nye* *nye* cannot see them from cha ching? [23:50] *nye* *OctavianX* The same three units are visible from Cha Ching. That sword is still there. [23:50] *nye* *nye* did not move? [23:50] *nye* *OctavianX* no. [23:50] *nye* *nye* cool [23:50] *nye* *nye* do you mind if i copy this into isdg talks? [23:50] *nye* *OctavianX* no problem. [23:50] *nye* octavian... [23:50] *nye* i have a theory [23:51] *nye* gca will not go after you too much so that we are not tempted to jump on them. [23:51] *MasterZen* I have one too: there WAS a second gunman in the grassy knoll [23:52] *OctavianX* You think that they're just trying to provoke us, and keep you out? it's possible [23:52] *nye* gl farm [23:52] *OctavianX* true, They do have an elite sword out there. [23:52] *nye* they do not seem to be concentrated and pushing [23:52] *nye* do they? [23:53] *OctavianX* Since they're first failed offensive on Shen Ling, they've not moved out of that area of the mountains. [23:53] *OctavianX* *their [23:53] *nye* how long ago was that? [23:53] *OctavianX* Let me check the archives... [23:55] *OctavianX* It's been about 20 turns since the last major battles. [23:56] *nye* yes. that fits [23:57] *nye* they think thjat if they push on you, we will jump. but if they leave you alone, we may not [23:57] *nye* do you agree? [23:58] *OctavianX* It's plausible. Their beginning offensive at Yun Feng at the start of the war was the major cause of Elucidia's alliance with us. [23:59] *OctavianX* They probably believe another major attack will bring in another ally fearing our fall. [23:59] *nye* it is all that makes sense [23:59] *nye* that would take some pressure off, yes? [00:00] *OctavianX* Yes [00:00] *OctavianX* well, not really... [00:00] *nye* yes? [00:00] *OctavianX* This is all speculation. Another possibility is that they are bringing in reinforcements to attempt an attack on a larger scale [00:01] *nye* you must let us know if you have signs of that [00:01] *nye* we are where we could charge, but could end as cdg did [00:01] *nye* if we have some time, the outcome is more certain [00:01] *OctavianX* It would be very difficult to get observers near Balance of Power. [00:02] *OctavianX* I also understand how Apolyton feels. I'd certainly want more time to build up while the pressure was off. [00:03] *nye* if all works out, they will withdraw and you will win back your land [00:03] *nye* fairly easily [00:04] *nye* if we move too soon, the liklihood of knocking them for six is lower [00:05] *OctavianX* Like I've said, the more time Apolyton has, the better. I'd be relunctant to request faster movement unless we were clearly in danger. [00:05] *nye* we agree [00:06] *nye* change of subject. have we coordinated research? [00:07] *OctavianX* not so far as I know. [00:07] *nye* damn [00:07] *nye* are you on anything? [00:07] *OctavianX* We're working on Monotheism, but our economy is in shambles. It'll be 38 more turns... [00:07] *nye* we understand [00:07] *nye* we guessed well [00:07] *nye* we are on eng [00:08] *OctavianX* If mono. comes faster for us later on, we'd like to discuss a trade. [00:08] *nye* the prospects are that we are alone, together for a long time [00:08] *nye* we welcome a trade [00:08] *OctavianX* Our goal is chivalry, and the mighty Rider. [00:09] *nye* that was an easy guess [00:10] *nye* one other thing. how is the barb situation? [00:10] *OctavianX* We should have that mess cleaned up by the next turn. [00:10] *nye* excellent news! [00:10] *OctavianX* Are you enjoying anarchy? [00:11] *nye* yes, very much [00:11] *nye* cats have morefun in anarchy [00:12] *OctavianX* When do you expect to be a Republid? [00:12] *OctavianX* *republic [00:12] *nye* very soon [00:13] *nye* we are planning a rpaid build up then [00:13] *nye* *rapid [00:13] *nye* you see our map [00:13] *nye* carving a home out of the jungle has not been easy [00:13] * Disconnected Session Close: Sat Aug 16 00:14:04 2003 Session Start: Sat Aug 16 00:17:14 2003 Session Ident: #isdgfamtalks [00:17] * Now talking in #isdgfamtalks [00:17] * Topic is 'Please Notify us by typing:5 /notice 4our username 12your message. 1 That way we know you are here, please allow us some time to respond. ' [00:17] * Set by BigFree on Thu Aug 14 13:57:14 [00:17] *nye* ahh, there you are [00:17] *OctavianX* That was unusual... [00:17] *nye* did you get disconnected? [00:17] *OctavianX* yup [00:17] *nye* reboot to the server? [00:18] *OctavianX* That'd be my guess... [00:18] *nye* yup. poly is responding again [00:18] *OctavianX* Perhaps they're putting in the new RAM that Markos was talking about last night... [00:18] *nye* not long enough, i think [00:19] * ChanServ sets mode: +o nye [00:19] *OctavianX* It's just a guess... [00:19] *nye* give me a minute? [00:19] *OctavianX* sure [00:19] *nye* brb [00:19] *OctavianX* I'm supposed to be updating some websites, anyway... [00:20] * MasterZen has joined #isdgfamtalks [00:20] * ChanServ sets mode: +o MasterZen [00:20] *MasterZen* hmm... stupid mIRC [00:20] *OctavianX* Nah, it was probably the server [00:20] *OctavianX* nye and I got disconnected as well [00:20] *OctavianX* fyi, nye will brb... [00:21] *nye* back [00:21] *MasterZen* ahh [00:21] *MasterZen* channel split? [00:21] *OctavianX* probably [00:21] *nye* gca is not pushing... barbs under control... tech can be coordinated... anything else? [00:23] *OctavianX* I take it Expedition and Princess didn't have much luck... [00:23] *nye* no. we are afreaind not [00:23] *nye* *afraid [00:24] *nye* well, except for currency... [00:24] *OctavianX* That one really suprised me. [00:24] *MasterZen* that alone made it worth it [00:24] *nye* yes. some of us were shocked as well. i figured we were due [00:25] *nye* we got barbs out of the first 5 huts, IIRC [00:25] *nye* or 4, how ever many we got [00:26] *OctavianX* I didn't think so many huts would be on small islands like those... [00:26] *nye* only 1 [00:26] *OctavianX* Ah, others on the continent... [00:26] *nye* barbs were at the beginning of the game [00:26] *nye* every hut we popped [00:27] *nye* trip had a pic of someone jumping off a pier, and said 'I'm outta here!' [00:27] *OctavianX* hehe [00:27] *nye* jungle and barbs. the breakfast of Apolyton! [00:28] *nye* i don't think we would know what to do with 3 or 4 cows and grain [00:29] *OctavianX* Build a lot of small cities and start trying to clear them? [00:29] *nye* you are on the right track [00:30] *nye* btw, are you guys tracking the other continent? [00:30] *OctavianX* I've been. Grenouille has taken quite a hit... [00:31] *nye* yes. firaxis lately too [00:31] *OctavianX* I've heard from mongoose21 that a major grudge match is playing out over there [00:31] *nye* one wonders what takes them so long [00:31] *nye* cdg was a pretty brief pop in the flame of gca [00:32] *nye* you guys do not have the full map yet, so you cannot count, but the count for cattle and wheat does not favour our lands, let me say that [00:33] *nye* although, the iron situation is very funny [00:33] *OctavianX* true. [00:33] *OctavianX* Two sources just in our corner... [00:33] *nye* more [00:33] *nye* the islands have another two [00:33] *OctavianX* yeah... [00:34] *nye* we figure, with a bad map, the other side might only have 2 or 4 total [00:34] *nye* but there are two monster civs [00:34] * BigFree has joined #ISDGFAMTALKS [00:34] * ChanServ sets mode: +o BigFree [00:34] * BigFree sets mode: +ps [00:34] *nye* it crossed my mind, after gca... what do we do? [00:34] *OctavianX* It's likely that if a war is going on, there is sufficient iron there... [00:34] *nye* hi, bf [00:35] *OctavianX* 'lo BigFree [00:35] *BigFree* yo yo [00:35] *nye* octavian, i have been on a map where there was 1 iron and 1 horse for 4 civs. there was still war [00:35] *BigFree* I would guess that they only have two sources of Iron over there [00:35] *OctavianX* Form a grand continental alliance to combat with those huge civs on the other continent? [00:36] *nye* i think we may want to be vikings, yes [00:36] *BigFree* I think we need to get them to war with each other [00:36] *OctavianX* I think they're doing it for us. [00:36] *nye* true [00:36] *BigFree* that would be nice [00:36] *BigFree* But I mean the two that are winning right now [00:36] *BigFree* GWT and CGN [00:37] *OctavianX* Grenoille won't be around long... [00:37] *nye* put it this way... neither cfc nor poly is gonna win this game by culture [00:37] *MasterZen* we aren't? Damn! [00:37] *nye* nope, that super capital that was promised us has not been up to snuff, i am afraid [00:38] *OctavianX* Like I've said before, I think our super-capital plans almost killed us. [00:38] *nye* heh [00:38] *nye* let it grow too much, did you? [00:39] *OctavianX* We invested in barracks and a granary a bit too early, imho... [00:39] *OctavianX* With the right resources, it could size 12 by now. [00:39] *nye* you could not count on gca being as coldly calculating as they have been [00:40] *nye* they knew exactly what was at stake, and then they got lucky v cdg. a bad combo [00:40] *OctavianX* We had assumed a nice peaceful period where Shen Ling could spit out settlers on a good rate... [00:40] *nye* i agree, a barracks on top of a granery is not optimal [00:41] *nye* at the start [00:42] *OctavianX* Still, I hope it'll show itself to be a good idea in the end... [00:42] *nye* we hope so too [00:43] *nye* the power of that city is keeping you in it [00:44] *OctavianX* It is a blessed city, you know. [00:44] *nye* zhi gang must be getting prety good [00:44] *OctavianX* Shen Ling directly translates to Sacred Forest. [00:44] *nye* that is cool [00:45] *nye* i assumed there were meaning to the names [00:45] *OctavianX* We don' [00:45] *nye* cha ching is rather easy to spot [00:45] *MasterZen* means Mystic Noise [00:45] *OctavianX* tWe don't put gibberish in those names. [00:46] *nye* cha ching means mystic noise? [00:46] *nye* to me it means CHA CHING... molla [00:46] * Disconnected Session Close: Sat Aug 16 00:46:55 2003 Session Start: Sat Aug 16 00:48:11 2003 Session Ident: #isdgfamtalks [00:48] * Now talking in #isdgfamtalks [00:48] * Topic is 'Please Notify us by typing:5 /notice 4our username 12your message. 1 That way we know you are here, please allow us some time to respond. ' [00:48] * Set by BigFree on Thu Aug 14 13:57:14 [00:48] *nye* this is getting silly [00:48] *OctavianX* Settler II is up to something... [00:48] * ChanServ sets mode: +o nye [00:48] *nye* yeah [00:49] *nye* anyways, anything else to discuss, officially? [00:49] *OctavianX* Can I buy the rights to name your next city? [00:50] *nye* hah! [00:50] *nye* what would it be? [00:50] *OctavianX* It'd either be 'Octavinium' or 'Doughnut Central' :P [00:51] *nye* hehe. bids will be accepted. no promises though [00:52] * BigFree has joined #ISDGFAMTALKS [00:52] * ChanServ sets mode: +o BigFree [00:52] * BigFree sets mode: +ps [00:53] *nye* allo again, bf [00:53] *BigFree* damn serve kicked me [00:53] *nye* all of us [00:53] *BigFree* ah [00:53] *OctavianX* Somebody is playing with it's reset button... [00:53] * MasterZen has joined #Isdgfamtalks [00:53] * ChanServ sets mode: +o MasterZen ...

and from there the chat diverted to talk of other subjects, like MP games, etc

	21-08-2003 06:42									#165
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Alright, here is what I emailed to Lucky today regarding the border proposal:

quote: Alright! It only took me... well, FOREVER to get around to this since I've been on vacation and whatnot. I apologize! In anycase, here is copy of the border proposal (attached is the picture you drew, which we will agree to). Let me know what you think regarding this proposal and if there is anything you wish to change? Apolyton - GCA Border Agreement Upon ratification by both parties, this agreement will create a border between the nations of GCA and Apolyton. The border runs as follows: It begins on the tile that is north of the tile containing dyes, which is north of the GCA city AllYourDyesRBelongToUs. The border then runs westward for 2 more tiles, where it turns northwest for one tile (tile containing the iron on a hill) and turns back west for one more tile, where it finally turns southwest for two more tiles to reach the coast, West-Northwest of the GCA city of AllYouRBelongToUs. If one were to trace the border with a unit, using keypad directions and beginning on the tile NORTH of the dyes by AllYourDyesRBelongToUs, the unit would move: 4-4-7-4-1-1. Picture is included for reference. This border and all tiles south of this border are considered GCA Territory, and no units from Apolyton may cross this border without prior consent from GCA. All tiles north of this border are considered Apolyton territory, and no units from GCA may cross into Apolyton territory without prior consent. Cultural borders from either nation supercede these borders, as culture cannot be effectively controlled. Either nation may settle cities ON their respective borders. Both parties acknowledge that crossing into the territory of the other party without permission is an act of war which would void this agreement. WhiteBandit Apolyton Foreign Affairs Ministry

	25-08-2003 02:25									#166
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Lucky started talking in ICQ just a bit ago

quote: Lucky: hi Trip: hello Lucky: You do know that you are violating our NAP right now Lucky: ... Trip: how so? Lucky: There shall be no war or conflict between us. Our units shall not attack each other, nor shall they enter or come within 1 tile of the cultural borders of the other party without permission. Nor shall our units interfere with the travel and movement of each other outside of these borders. Lucky: notice the "nor shall they enter or come within 1 tile of the cultural borders of the other party without permission" Lucky: the border treaty is not yet in effect you know Lucky: only half of my people have voted Lucky: lazy bums :S Lucky: Lucky: this is no criticism, just information Lucky: after all I know you like to keep to every treaty to the point Trip: I don't think anyone noticed that :P Trip: I'll let the higher-ups know Lucky: hehe, I figured that Trip: when does your border treaty poll end? Lucky: 1 or 2 days I think Trip: okay Lucky: it has been just 3 days since i got that treaty after all Trip: we've been discussing it for quite a while now Trip: I think most of us assumed that it had already been ratified Lucky: yes Lucky: yes, i guess so Lucky: but WB just sent it on thursday Trip: okay Trip: let us know when you have a finalized decision Lucky: ok

	26-08-2003 20:45									#167
	Remove this text

Hmm... here is Lucky's response on the border proposal. Err... did we ratify this? :P He is assuming it's ratified.

quote: Hi, the border treaty is now ratified by us as well. I assume it already has the consent of your people, so Iīm CCing it to mongoose as an official treaty. I just added one sentence for clarity, that this border treaty overrides a NAP rule for the area specified. Ok, then this should finally be official, we have it listed as taking effect on turn 110 (370BC), that is the next turn that starts once we get the save today. Lucky Gamecatcher President Apolyton - GCA Border Agreement Upon ratification by both parties, this agreement will create a border between the nations of GCA and Apolyton. The border runs as follows: It begins on the tile that is north of the tile containing dyes, which is north of the GCA city AllYourDyesRBelongToUs. The border then runs westward for 2 more tiles, where it turns northwest for one tile (tile containing the iron on a hill) and turns back west for one more tile, where it finally turns southwest for two more tiles to reach the coast, West-Northwest of the GCA city of AllYouRBelongToUs. If one were to trace the border with a unit, using keypad directions and beginning on the tile NORTH of the dyes by AllYourDyesRBelongToUs, the unit would move: 4-4-7-4-1-1. Picture is included for reference. This border and all tiles south of this border are considered GCA Territory, and no units from Apolyton may cross this border without prior consent from GCA. All tiles north of this border are considered Apolyton territory, and no units from GCA may cross into Apolyton territory without prior consent. Cultural borders from either nation supercede these borders, as culture cannot be effectively controlled. Either nation may settle cities ON their respective borders. Both parties acknowledge that crossing into the territory of the other party without permission is an act of war which would void this agreement. This border treaty overrides the NAP rule of not entering within 1 tile of the others cultural borders for the area specified. //RATIFIED// WhiteBandit Apolyton Foreign Affairs Ministry //RATIFIED// Lucky Gamecatcher President

	29-08-2003 04:42									#168
	GCA techs are done... Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

DUM DUM DUM..... (scary music)

Looks like GCA has their side of our "tech agreement" done.

Damn.

quote: Lucky (2:16 PM) : hi WhiteBandit (2:17 PM) : hey lucky, what's going on? Lucky (2:17 PM) : just wanted to tell you that we can go ahead and fulfill the tech trade that is still left to do WhiteBandit (2:18 PM) : i've been out of the loop for so long, remind me what that was again? WhiteBandit (2:18 PM) : actually WhiteBandit (2:18 PM) : poly is up amazingly, i can check it Lucky (2:18 PM) : so if you want, you can offer MapMaking and weīll reply with currency Lucky (2:19 PM) : that was the final part of the deal WhiteBandit (2:19 PM) : ah, okay, i'll let them know Lucky (2:25 PM) : good

	29-08-2003 12:27									#169
	Tired of ads?

Here we go. Worked out some stuff in the chat regarding CFC and GCA. I imagine this might cause some people to NOT be happy with our tentative plans. In anycase, please discuss in the appropriate threads: Either GCA or CFC Diplo threads.

quote: Hey Octavian! We're in the chat trying to debate how soon we can go to war and how long you guys will be able to keep fighting. We do agree that it appears to be a dire situation right now, but we want you to know that we aren't sitting by idly. Basically, we've agreed in chat on a plan that will HOPEFULLY buy you guys a little time. We will basically be rattling sabres with GCA and trying to force them to the negotiating table with you. We can't guarantee that it will work though, be we think it has a pretty decent shot. Anyways, we want to let you in on the game we're going to play. We fully intend to attack GCA in roughly 10 turns (the actual turn hasn't been decided yet as we're getting final preparations and unit counts underway). Hopefully GCA will negotiate with you. If they do, don't be rude or nasty, but do try to stall for as long as possible. We will even note that Apolyton is willing to be the mediators in this here event. I'm not sure if total peace is an option with them though. Because we want to keep them at a two front war and it appears they have a substantial military presence down south (which is good for our coming assault, but horrible for you guys). Anyway, here is a rough draft of the letter we want to send Lucky and the gang. It is blunt, and if Lucky is as scared of us as he seems, he should at least take it into consideration. Please let me know your thoughts on this whole issue. Letter to Lucky: ---- Lucky, We at Apolyton are concerned about the ongoing war between GCA and CFC. We are opposed to the destruction or further conquest of CFC and insist that a peace agreement be reached between your nations. We are willing to mediate such an agreement, to help ensure that it is fair and responsive to both sides. Until such an agreement is reached we will suspend all trades with both parties. And we reserve the right to get involved militarily to assure that this war, which has gone on long enough, comes to a conclusion. Regards, WhiteBandit ---- Lastly, do you have AIM/ICQ or any other client we can efficiently reach you at when we need to? IRC is somewhat hit or miss. You can send me an IM at WHITEBNDIT. (No "A" in that). Dave -WB

	31-08-2003 01:43									#170
	Support Apolyton

Chat with Octavian about GCA cease-fire discussions.

quote: [14:05] [Trip] hello [14:06] [Octavian_X] Oh, yes... [14:06] [Trip] anything new during the turn? [14:06] [Octavian_X] 4 swords (two in army) and two horses can threaten Cha Ching next turn. [14:07] [Octavian_X] any attack is two turns off [14:07] [Octavian_X] dammit... [14:07] [Octavian_X] Not Cha Ching [14:07] [Trip] little surprise there [14:07] [Octavian_X] Yun Qiulijg [14:07] [Trip] you should really have picked easier names for those cities [14:08] [Octavian_X] I'm proposing kuangbiao haian for our next. [14:08] [Trip] great [14:08] [Trip] well, can you start discussions for a cease fire soon? [14:08] [Trip] as in, maybe, today? [14:09] [Octavian_X] By next turn Yun Qiuling will have a catapult and walls... [14:09] [Trip] where'd the Catapult come from? [14:09] [Octavian_X] Jiang Mapi [14:10] [Trip] ah [14:10] [Trip] the problem still exists about getting the Shen Ling Pikes to Yun though [14:10] [Octavian_X] I want to see what they'll do next turn. [14:10] [Trip] do they have any units next to Yun yet? [14:10] [Octavian_X] If they hold off for just one more turn, we can those pikes up to Yun, and likely save the city [14:11] [Trip] if you can get them to talk about a cease fire today you might stall them long enough to get them there [14:11] [Octavian_X] true. [14:12] [Trip] if they see the Pike there they will either stall on their own accord [14:12] [Trip] or they'll charge hoping to get there before anything else does... [14:12] [Trip] you have a chance to stall them now [14:12] [Octavian_X] They don't know about the pikes yet... [14:13] [Octavian_X] They'd have to move right next to Yun to see them. [14:13] [Bootstoots] what are our current defenses in the city? [14:13] [Octavian_X] It was all in the private room. [14:13] [Bootstoots] but i got disconnected and therefore can't see it [14:14] [Trip] yes, but they will see the Pikes next turn [14:14] [Trip] as in, after GWT and Grenouille send the save [14:14] [Octavian_X] true. [14:14] * Chieftess has joined #demogame_cfc_Embassy [14:14] * ChanServ sets mode: +h Chieftess [14:14] [Trip] which could be a matter of hours [14:15] [Bootstoots] should we go right to #gamecatcher and talk with them? [14:15] [Bootstoots] or ask Zarn to do talking? [14:15] [Trip] Lucky is on ICQ right now [14:15] [Trip] but it says "away" [14:16] [Octavian_X] I've got Zarn on the way here... [14:17] * Zarn has joined #demogame_cfc_embassy [14:17] [Bootstoots] hi Zarn [14:17] [Zarn] Hi [14:18] * Bootstoots sets mode: +vv Trip Zarn [14:18] [Octavian_X] Trip has brought up the possibility of a cease fire with GCA, to stall for time and get the last two vet pikes into Yun Qiuling. [14:19] [Zarn] Ok, I'm listening [14:19] [Zarn] There is a thunderstorm here, so if I leave, it is because of the storm. [14:19] [Zarn] How turns do we need? [14:20] [Octavian_X] basically, GCA can attack YQ in two turns. If we had three turns, we could get two more vet pikes into the town. With thosee forces, we can certainly hold the town. [14:20] [Bootstoots] why would GC agree with this? [14:20] [Zarn] Ok, we can call for a three turn ceasefire, and say that we will negotiate for trade. [14:20] [Bootstoots] i g2g [14:21] [Trip] or even a 1 turn ceasefire would work [14:21] [Zarn] Do you think we can pull that one off. [14:21] [Octavian_X] Other than possibly gold, they really can't trade with us. [14:21] [Octavian_X] We're several techs ahead of tem [14:23] [Zarn] Maybe we can say we will negotiate a peace treaty by having the cease fire. Tell them that there troops moving further inot our lands would violate the cease fire. [14:23] [Trip] you could at the very least tell them that you wish for a cease fire to discuss a permanent cessation of hostilities [14:23] [Trip] if you tell them something like "if you x the cease fire is broken" then that will make them suspicious [14:24] [Zarn] hmmm... okay if they move further into our lands after accepting it, then we can request them to leave for the sake of peace. [14:25] [Octavian_X] As long as we do get a cease fire, we should be fine for then. [14:25] [Trip] yes, that would be more "diplomatic" [14:25] [Zarn] We have to make it look like that they could get a good tech or two out of the deal. [14:25] [Zarn] even though they won't [14:25] [Trip] make it look like ANYTHING [14:26] [Trip] just stall one turn [14:26] [Trip] and that's all you'll need [14:26] [Trip] because it does appear they're going after Yun in force [14:26] [Zarn] We could ask for possible conditions on their part for peace, or would that make us look too weak... [14:26] * WhiteBandit has joined #demogame_CFC_Embassy [14:26] [WhiteBandit] ahoy! [14:26] [Octavian_X] That's better... [14:26] [Trip] yes, it would be best to maintain some sort of "firm standing" while in discussions [14:26] [Zarn] yeah, but they have to have a reason not to march forword [14:26] * Bootstoots has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 360 seconds ) [14:27] [Trip] make it sound like you've been worn out by this war (which you have) and you just want it to be over [14:27] [Trip] otherwise they'll think they're on the verge of a great victory and may take the cease-fire request in the exact opposite way we're hoping for [14:27] [Octavian_X] true. [14:28] [Trip] it's a very delicate matter [14:28] [Trip] but one which must be addressed soon [14:29] [Octavian_X] I need to get going... [14:29] [Octavian_X] Let me summarize some things [14:29] [Zarn] yeah, we have to write this just right. One word can give away what we are doing. [14:29] [WhiteBandit] yes please [14:29] [Octavian_X] First, we will agree to a contact/map NDA if other teams are contact. [14:29] [Octavian_X] Second, we will attempt to get a cease-fire on the pretext of peace negotiation with GCA. [14:30] [Octavian_X] The above is a stall tactic to get two more pikes into Yun Qiuling, securing the city. [14:30] [WhiteBandit] hmm, ok [14:30] [WhiteBandit] are we going to use that letter then [14:30] [Zarn] Third, we get a pizza.. [14:30] [WhiteBandit] or you want us to just sit back and wait for now? [14:31] [Trip] oh, and if you do get the Pikes into the city make sure you fortify-all them [14:31] [Octavian_X] Send them the letter. At least they'll know you're pressuring for peace when we want to talk about it. [14:31] [Trip] it will make them look fortified to GCA even though they won't be [14:31] * CivGeneral has joined #demogame_cfc_embassy [14:31] * ChanServ sets mode: +a CivGeneral [14:31] [CivGeneral] Ahh there you are :0 [14:31] [CivGeneral] *\ [14:31] [Octavian_X] sigh... [14:31] [Octavian_X] [15:29] [@Octavian_X] First, we will agree to a contact/map NDA if other teams are contact. [14:31] [Octavian_X] [15:29] [@Octavian_X] Second, we will attempt to get a cease-fire on the pretext of peace negotiation with GCA. [14:31] [Octavian_X] [15:30] [@Octavian_X] The above is a stall tactic to get two more pikes into Yun Qiuling, securing the city. [14:32] [Zarn] Don't forget the third thing, Oct. [14:32] [Octavian_X] 5L augh 5O ut 5L oud [14:32] [CivGeneral] Oct - Why are you sigh9ing at me? [14:32] [CivGeneral] No one tells me these things that we are in the Embassy [14:33] [Octavian_X] 5N o 5P roblem [14:33] [Zarn] He just explained our plans, and then you came. [14:33] [Octavian_X] Zarn, care to contact Lucky, then? [14:33] [CivGeneral] Zarn - Can I follow? [14:33] [Octavian_X] If I don't leave soon, I'll be last for Mass [14:33] [Octavian_X] *late [14:33] [Zarn] Is it best to contact lucky in GC's forums? [14:34] [Octavian_X] Whereever you can get his attention. [14:34] [Zarn] k [14:34] [WhiteBandit] send him a PM at GCA [14:34] [Octavian_X] their chatroom, email, forums, etc. [14:34] [Trip] Lucky has an ICQ address [14:34] [Zarn] k, I will get it through [14:34] [Trip] but he's away right now [14:34] [CivGeneral] yeah [14:35] [WhiteBandit] please, no mention of apolyton until he gets the letter [14:35] [Trip] yeah [14:35] [Octavian_X] understood. [14:35] [Trip] we have to make it look like you wanted a cease fire, told us about it and then we can weigh in later [14:35] [Trip] instead of some grand conspiracy [14:35] [Zarn] Any particular statements that you want me to state or am I going completely 'freestyle?' [14:35] [Octavian_X] I trust your judgemeng, Zarn. [14:35] [Trip] basically: do whatever it takes to get them to stall [14:35] [Trip] well, almost [14:36] [WhiteBandit] call him a lucky cocksucker if you want [14:36] [Octavian_X] something tells me that won't help. [14:36] [CivGeneral] Oct - Would it be possible for me to addent the Meeting with Lucky? [14:36] [WhiteBandit] hehe [14:36] [Zarn] I think a chat would be best and it would stall him [14:36] [Trip] you can go to the GCA chatroom [14:36] [Trip] also if the rest of his team sees what goes on they might get a bit more excited than if it was just Lucky [14:37] [Zarn] I can pm him to hold a chat. That way that would have to have a ceasefire to negotiate... [14:37] [Trip] since the rest of their team is relatively unstable [14:37] [Trip] prone to get very crazy [14:37] [Zarn] true... [14:37] [Trip] at the thought of "victory" they might overrule the more sensible Lucky [14:37] [Octavian_X] hehe [14:38] [CivGeneral] Zarn - I am in GC's Chatroom and no one is in [14:38] [Zarn] hmmm [14:38] [Zarn] ok, CG. Can you help me get in contact with Lucky (when he shows up). [14:38] [Octavian_X] Pm would be best, then... [14:38] [Zarn] I will pm him... [14:38] [CivGeneral] Zarn - k [14:39] [Octavian_X] I've gotta run. [14:39] [Octavian_X] Bye. [14:39] [WhiteBandit] aright, see ya later Octavian [14:39] * Octavian_X has quit IRC (Quit: off to church ) [14:39] [Zarn] k, CG and I got it Oct.

	01-09-2003 01:33									#171
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Chat with Lucky on MSN messanger that was initiated by his this afternoon:

quote: Lucky says: Iīm wondering about our tech trade agreement tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: what's on your mind? Lucky says: well, a while ago we made the agreement to forgo the planned MM for Polytheism and instead agreed on Poly for Maths and CoL + MM for Currency later tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: right Lucky says: now it seems you acquired currency from another source though tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: yep. Goodie Hut. Lucky says: well, what do we do now? Lucky says: after all, we had the non-voidable clauses in our treaties tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: It's being debated right now. No one has yet come to a definite conclusion over here. Lucky says: I see tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: we've been distracted by the CFC war Lucky says: CFC? Lucky says: or CDG? tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: no CFC. They've been talking to us a lot, wanting our help to end the war. Lucky says: ah Lucky says: they are on the retreat and suddenly open for negotiations tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: the tech stuff's been sort of put on hold while we debate the war stuff. Lucky says: and betrayal as they incited before Lucky says: I hope we can count on you keeping to our friendship and treaties tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: I think so. tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: Do you guys have any suggestions on what to do about the tech trade? tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: I need to bring it back up with the team, get the discussions started again Lucky says: well, we can offer you maps and gold, not much though tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: maybe a straight sale would work. Lucky says: you know we are behind in techs, 2 front wars are not fun in this respect tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: I know what you mean tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: I need to see about a price for MM, then. Lucky says: might I ask which other ancient age techs you donīt have yet? tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: we could use Monarchy Lucky says: yes, we will go after that, but it is quite expensive tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: most of the late techs are. Lucky says: ok then, Iīll inform my people that you cannot fulfill the tech trade obligations but that solutions are being discussed tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: I understand. I'd hate to see it phrased that way, but I understand, from your point of view, why you'd describe it like that. Lucky says: if you say goodie hut, I expect you found something interesting after all on your voyages Lucky says: a small island I presume tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: 2 small islands tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: we just didn't find any other civs, which is what we were shooting for Lucky says: maybe CFC did Lucky says: otherwise I canīt really explain their advances tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: doubtful. unless someone else found them. Lucky says: otoh, they had 2 civs to trade with, we only you tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: can you explain? Lucky says: well, they could trade peacefully with you and CDG Lucky says: while we could only trade with you tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: but CDG is dead Lucky says: at least the later years Lucky says: but they probably got at least CoL and Philosophy from them Lucky says: maybe even for free tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: maybe before CDG died they gifted their techs Lucky says: yes Lucky says: it would fit to their behaviour tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: they gifted us 2 cities, so it's pretty likely Lucky says: yeah Lucky says: rather unfair if you ask me, but oh well tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: how do you think the war with CFC will end? Lucky says: we can tell you a little more next turn Lucky says: if I follow the will of the majority, weīll have them eradicated for their behaviour, attitude and atrocities Lucky says: and especially for they constant delays of the save Lucky says: *their tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: gotcha. We're stuck in the middle over this, and there's been a lot of talk lately about getting Poly involved, just to let you know. Lucky says: I hope on our side tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: it's possible. But CFC has a definite "underdog" feel over here. You know what I mean? They've been dropping by asking us to help them get peace, etc etc. Lucky says: well, just to tell you, yesterday was the first day the started talking about peace for the first time ever tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: anything come of it? Lucky says: well, they made an offer and we made a counter-offer Lucky says: we are discussing theirs right now, they havenīt taken our offer yet tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: what are the offers? Lucky says: theirs looks simply like a delaying tactic tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: what's the offer, though? Lucky says: some not closer defined cease fire which then makes way for peace discussions Lucky says: nothing definite tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: ah tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: what is your offer to them? Lucky says: immediate seize fire and peace, for a price, details of the peace, e.g. borders and such, to be discussed tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: no cities? tech? gold? Lucky says: as I said, for a price Lucky says: which is rather an insurance for us tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: what's the price? Lucky says: well, this is a bilateral proposal, not multilateral Lucky says: means that if we canīt defeat them now there, we are in real trouble tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: gotcha tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: I need to take off. tom_ogas@hotmail.com says: We'll have to chat later Lucky says: ok, bye

--Togas

	02-09-2003 11:50									#172
	Turning up the heat Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Lucky, We at Apolyton are concerned about the ongoing war between GCA and CFC. We are opposed to the destruction or further conquest of CFC and insist that a peace agreement be reached between your nations. We are willing to mediate such an agreement, to help ensure that it is fair and responsive to both sides. Until such an agreement is reached we will suspend all trades with both parties. And we reserve the right to get involved militarily to assure that this war, which has gone on long enough, comes to a conclusion. Best Regards, WhiteBandit Apolyton Foreign Affairs Ministry

	03-09-2003 09:39									#173
	Chat with CFC Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

PART I
Logs of how we arrived at the 240g deal:

quote: Session Start: Mon Sep 01 21:24:15 2003 Session Ident: #isdgfam [21:24:15] * Now talking in #isdgfam [21:24:56] * Joins: OctavianX (~thesim109@coin-as3-24.coin.org) [21:25:08] OctavianX> What's this I hear about GWT? [21:25:25] OctavianX> And in the middle of my humanities homework, I might add... [21:25:34] Togas> excellent [21:25:57] * Joins: Trip (~trip@c-67-162-147-249.client.comcast.net) [21:26:03] Togas> We found a GWT galley this turn [21:26:29] OctavianX> where? [21:26:34] Togas> we have not officially contacted them yet, and we wanted to talk with you guys about the deals we had in mind [21:26:54] * Joins: nye (notyoueith@h24-86-76-127.ed.shawcable.net) [21:26:54] Togas> Their galley is West of Equilibrium [21:27:07] nye> hello [21:27:10] OctavianX> I see... [21:27:56] OctavianX> What were the deals you had in your mind? [21:28:11] Togas> I'll spell it out here: [21:28:36] Togas> (the following is my idea, which has not been ratified, it's still in rough draft) [21:28:52] Togas> GWT has Engineering. They lack Feudalism [21:29:08] Togas> We would trade them Feud for Eng. [21:29:21] Togas> And trade them contact with CFC for contact with CGN or another team (still working that out) [21:29:49] Togas> While Eng helps us out, what we really need right now is gold to speed up our mil ... so we can rush units and move the war forward a few turns. [21:29:59] OctavianX> My guess would be they traveled down from that grasslands cape. n or Equilibrium. [21:30:10] BigFree> yep [21:30:15] Togas> We'd like to give CFC the following: Republic, Engineering, Contact with CFC, contact with another civ. [21:30:22] Togas> In exchange, we need gold from you guys. [21:30:37] Togas> contact with GWT, I mean [21:30:40] OctavianX> I can hear the treasury groaning already... [21:31:16] MasterZen> yeah but I can hear the scientists jumping with joy [21:31:21] Togas> seriously, the gold is invaluable. We can push forward the start of the war by probably 3 turns with that money [21:31:47] OctavianX> Just get down to the details. How much are you planning? [21:31:53] OctavianX> money-wise [21:32:02] Togas> Inf upgrades from warrior are 60g [21:32:10] Togas> We need 300g [21:32:34] OctavianX> ...an amount of gold we may not have for a while [21:32:55] WhiteBandit> and if i may make a request: also throw in one of those cool bendy straws you get at classy restaraunts for me [21:33:08] Togas> what can you give us? [21:34:10] OctavianX> Let's see... [21:34:44] OctavianX> Assuming no upgrades, or anything else unexpected, we should have around 210g this turn. [21:34:52] OctavianX> at a rate of about 20gpt [21:36:04] Togas> we're discussing right now. [21:36:48] OctavianX> That could change, depending on how how much we need to spend on lux. [21:37:19] OctavianX> and please, keep on discussing. I need to research Amedeo Modigliani... [21:41:09] Togas> while we discuss, I need to ask how the negotiations with GCA are going. [21:41:29] OctavianX> They kind of broke down. [21:41:38] Togas> what was their offer? [21:41:38] BigFree> :9 [21:41:42] OctavianX> Right off the bat, they wanted Yun Qiuling. [21:41:49] BigFree> damn them [21:41:57] Togas> We should send the letter, then [21:42:04] BigFree> maybe we need to sne d aletter to them.... [21:42:07] OctavianX> that's all. no techs, etc. [21:42:19] Togas> We need to get ourselves involved. [21:42:29] WhiteBandit> Just let me know when [21:42:41] WhiteBandit> I'm back from my impromtu vacation and ready to roll :P [21:42:57] Togas> OctX, what can we do to help? [21:43:23] OctavianX> You can write a periodized story of my life. [21:43:41] Togas> what can we do to help things with GCA? [21:43:51] Trip> besides invade next turn :P [21:44:04] OctavianX> drat... [21:44:08] OctavianX> Let me check the save. [21:44:17] OctavianX> If we're lucky, they haven't made a move yet. [21:44:34] OctavianX> No, that assumes we have a save game. Sorry. [21:44:40] Togas> we still have it [21:44:55] Trip> he's just taunting us :P [21:45:01] Trip> but at least he knows we have an excuse [21:45:11] OctavianX> I had honestly thought you'd be done by now... [21:45:23] Trip> this is why we go fast the rest of the time :P [21:45:30] OctavianX> Really, we onlty need the turn to get reinforcements to Yun Qiuling. [21:45:44] OctavianX> If they haven't made their move this turn, then we likely won't need any assistance. [21:45:45] Togas> we need to send an offer to GWT [21:46:01] Trip> I think MZ already did [21:46:06] Trip> after I asked him 5 times :P [21:46:10] Trip> he finally answered me [21:46:15] Togas> Trip -- I'm talking about IN GAME. [21:46:28] OctavianX> You never told me how much gold you wanted us to send. [21:46:37] OctavianX> for the deal, that is [21:46:43] Togas> we need 300g [21:46:59] Togas> we're trying to figure out what to do since you guys don't have that much [21:47:27] OctavianX> How badly do you want engineering? [21:47:37] OctavianX> Perhaps you can just sell of our contact for gold [21:47:46] Togas> not worth the gold we'd get. [21:49:07] OctavianX> Unless we can get more troops to serve as military police, we won't be able to increase gpt. [21:49:59] Togas> understood. [21:50:13] BigFree> Maybe we can do a "some gold now, and some gpt" deal? [21:50:33] Togas> Can we do a partial payment. I don't know if GPT would work out because we need the gold pretty quickly. [21:51:07] Togas> maybe 200g now. 100g in 5 turns? Or is that too late for the upgrades? [21:51:15] BigFree> we could cancle the gpt deal by having CFC declare war on us possibly [21:51:25] OctavianX> true... [21:51:48] BigFree> we would actually get Hapiness from it [21:51:59] BigFree> CFC would not get any negative effects [21:52:18] MasterZen> Ideally though we'd need a multiple of 60 for the gold, that means 180g or 240g in the first deal [21:53:05] Togas> any of those ideas should work. [21:53:09] BigFree> but, add that inot our own gold and the multiple thing is thrown off [21:53:19] Trip> it won't matter until we upgrade [21:53:35] Trip> 180 or 200 or 207 now [21:53:47] MasterZen> ah yeah true [21:54:19] MasterZen> but at least we'd know how many extra we could upgrade off the bat [21:55:12] OctavianX> 180g would likely be the route for us to go. [21:55:21] OctavianX> I want to upgrade a sword and a spear this turn. [21:55:30] Togas> 180g now. 120g in 5 turns? [21:56:04] OctavianX> 100g in five, or 120g in 6 [21:56:32] OctavianX> gpt wise, that's as much as we can afford. [21:56:38] Togas> if it's 6 turns, then we upgrade on turn 7, then 2 moves to the front...? [21:56:48] Togas> still pushes the war back [21:56:55] OctavianX> Even on that schedule, we'd be pressed for upgrades ourselves. [21:57:29] OctavianX> five or six turns could be very sketchy depending on our upgrading needed. [21:57:32] OctavianX> *needs [21:57:37] Trip> we need 300 in five turns [21:58:24] OctavianX> How much are you getting gpt wise? [21:58:41] Togas> brb... [21:58:56] BigFree> near 30 [21:59:20] Togas> back [21:59:38] Trip> but we also have more Warriors to upgrade than 300 will provide for [22:00:28] OctavianX> Even if we froze scientific research and lux spending, we'd only be making 6gpt more. [22:00:51] BigFree> how much can you have to us in 5 turns, approximately? [22:01:12] Togas> BF, I believe OctX [22:01:28] OctavianX> realistically speaking... [22:01:32] Togas> It just might not be possible, even as much as we'd wish for it to be [22:02:33] Togas> let's just go with a 2 payment thing. 180g now. 120g later [22:02:35] OctavianX> well, what does it cost to upgrade a sword? [22:02:56] BigFree> 20 I believe [22:02:56] Togas> sword -> inf = 20g. Right? [22:03:18] OctavianX> Then we will likely spend 60g over the next five turns. [22:03:47] BigFree> yes, you need to upgrade every unit you have [22:05:18] OctavianX> 180g now.... [22:05:22] OctavianX> then 60g in five turns. [22:05:56] OctavianX> unless my sleepiness if affecting my math skills, that's as much as we can afford. [22:06:27] Togas> Gotcha. We're discussing. [22:10:07] Trip> where are your 2 vet Pikes right now? [22:10:25] OctavianX> They'll be in Jiang Mapi this turn. [22:10:37] Trip> hmmm [22:10:41] Trip> it's too bad you didn't get Engineering sooner [22:11:04] OctavianX> Oh, the sooner we get that, the better. [22:11:20] Trip> if you had gotten it before moving out of Shen Ling then you could have made it to Yun before GCA no matter what [22:11:33] OctavianX> Transport time from Shen Ling to Yun Qiuling could be dropped a lot... [22:11:55] OctavianX> That assumes they moved in for the kill this turn. I hope they didn't... [22:12:28] Togas> Back [22:12:31] BigFree> will you have walls next turn? [22:12:55] OctavianX> At the terrible cost of a brave half of the city of Yun Qiuling, yes. [22:12:56] Togas> OctX, I know I don't have to say just how valuable Engineering and Republic are. In addition we're giving 2 contacts. [22:13:15] OctavianX> ...assuming that GWT doesn't sell more [22:13:24] Togas> ?? [22:13:45] OctavianX> I'm just saying if we're lucky, we'll meet Firaxis and Grenouille as well... [22:13:59] OctavianX> though it would likely be useless [22:14:04] BigFree> possibly, but I doubt it [22:14:05] Trip> I'm sure Grenouille is a heavy spender :P [22:14:29] OctavianX> CGN is taking it's sweet time... [22:14:41] Trip> maybe we'll find out [22:14:46] * Trip is now known as Trip[gone] [22:14:48] Togas> I don't think this sort of thing does either of us any good. We both need each other and we both need to start working together more. [22:14:56] OctavianX> Are we agreed that we won't mention GCA at all in our discussions with the other civs? [22:15:03] Togas> of course. [22:16:02] Togas> I just wanted you to know that we here at Apolyton would not easily give up 2 valuable techs and contacts, but things are a bit different with you guys. [22:16:35] Togas> You guys will basicly have everything we have. [22:16:54] OctavianX> Except for land. :/ [22:17:10] BigFree> And we still get Monothesism, right? [22:17:11] Togas> you want our swamps and jungle? [22:17:34] MasterZen> swamps? wait, when did we switch to C3C? [22:17:50] OctavianX> Not really, but we don't particularly like be confied to between BoP and Equilribium... [22:17:58] OctavianX> As for monotheism, we can likely work that out. [22:18:16] OctavianX> We just want riders. [22:18:45] Togas> Listen, I don't want to make this into some sort bitter thing ... we've decided to make this deal with you even though you can't afford the 300g. [22:19:29] OctavianX> So, we get the package deal for the 240g we'll pay for upgrades? [22:20:04] Togas> Yeah. Give us 180g now. 60g later. Every little bit helps. DO YOUR UPGRADES. That's really the priority, I think. [22:20:21] OctavianX> That still doesn't make up for the english paper I could be writing right now. [22:20:29] Togas> can't help you there. [22:20:32] MasterZen> hahahahahaha [22:21:01] OctavianX> Now, before I get seriously confused, and shot for screwing up information, after the 240g over five turns, you'll expect nothing more for the contacts and techs? [22:21:11] Togas> 2 favors: [22:21:18] Togas> 1) GCA gets NO TECHS. [22:21:21] Togas> no matter what. [22:21:34] Togas> For example, if they get Literacy, they could rushbuild Great Library [22:21:43] Togas> Construction -= Great Wall [22:22:03] Togas> Mapmaking = galleys [22:22:10] Togas> we need to pledge not to give them anything no matter what. [22:22:55] Togas> can you guys hang with that? [22:23:03] OctavianX> as long as we get the promise of an Apolytonian city for refuge if the worse does come to the absolute worth, as techs could be the key to peace [22:23:17] OctavianX> *worth = worse [22:24:02] BigFree> we want CFC in the game, no doubts, we are working to keep that [22:24:10] BigFree> we Do want GCA gone though [22:24:33] BigFree> we would do something to ensure your survival [22:24:52] OctavianX> That's good to know. [22:24:53] Togas> OctX, are you serious about that request? We could debate that and ultimately grant it, but do you guys want to live on with 1 city? [22:25:11] OctavianX> I'm just say the absolute worse case scenario. [22:25:19] BigFree> I understand [22:25:35] BigFree> heck, we may even find as island later on [22:25:36] OctavianX> I mean, we're conerned in a tiny town my a massive GCA force bent on destruction. [22:25:46] OctavianX> That kind of situation. [22:25:50] BigFree> right [22:26:01] OctavianX> ultimately, we would want to rebuild. [22:26:03] BigFree> I might ask the same questions Oct [22:26:29] BigFree> Here's a future question, possibly.... [22:26:31] OctavianX> We have the mutual understanding that we want each other to survive. [22:27:14] BigFree> If things do go badly or even just so-so against GCA, what would CFC think about allying with Apolyton to ensure that Apolyton wins? [22:28:40] OctavianX> We would understand that, barring some deal worked out in the future, CFC will likely be the weaker power on the continent. [22:29:11] BigFree> Not to say it is a foregone conclusion [22:29:18] Togas> that all seems way far off. BF, let's deal with the more practical stuff -- can we promise to give them a refugee city should they be on the verge of losing all their cities? [22:29:22] BigFree> but I see CFC as a sister to Apolyton [22:29:54] OctavianX> As do I. Ideally, we could work out something to equally divide the spoils of war so both teams have an equal footing. [22:29:59] BigFree> right [22:30:12] BigFree> I would shoot for that [22:30:15] OctavianX> As equal allies, we could do great things. [22:30:20] BigFree> exactly [22:30:22] Togas> that sounds perfectly fine to me. [22:30:31] Togas> Cut GCA in half between us. [22:30:37] BigFree> Now lets get to kicking some GCA ass [22:30:56] OctavianX> ...or english paper ass, as my current situation is... [22:31:33] Togas> anyhow, OctX needs a pledge from us. Can we give them a "worst case scenerio" pledge ... that if GCA is about to take their last city we give them one of ours? [22:32:24] BigFree> yes [22:32:27] BigFree> of course [22:32:38] BigFree> our of reach of GCA [22:32:42] BigFree> *out [22:32:48] OctavianX> Togas, what was the second favor you wanted to ask? First was that GCA would get no tehcs... [22:33:26] Togas> 2) You guys give us 10 turns to try to get some deals out of the "foreign civs" ... make sales to afford the upgrades. [22:34:13] OctavianX> so, we don't discuss trading techs for 10 turns? sounds reasonable. [22:35:16] Togas> sort of a 10 turn moritorium on all trades, tech, contacts, WMs, etc once you guys receive the contact from us. We'll likely work hard to trade contact with CFC to them for contact with a foreign civ and, hopefully, get all the contacts this way [22:35:46] Togas> in the end, we'll both have all the contacts this way, and we'll hopefully scrape some gold from them to get the rest of our upgrades done. [22:36:59] OctavianX> ok. [22:37:12] Togas> cool. We'll keep you posted on how we do, who we meet, what we find out. [22:37:27] OctavianX> Is there anyone around willing to summarize the contents of this chat in a more formal written agreement? [22:37:44] Togas> I'll write it up tomorrow when I get back from work. [22:37:52] Togas> unless someone wants to get it done now? [22:38:22] * MasterZen wonders where Zargon is :P [22:38:39] OctavianX> Thanks. [22:38:41] MasterZen> I can write it up, I'm not doing anything at the momet [22:38:55] Togas> cool. Thank you, MZ [22:38:57] OctavianX> Anything else? [22:39:28] Togas> I'd like to figure out a way that we can better share info [22:39:37] Togas> I know that you give Trip shots and numbers and we really appreciate it [22:39:50] Togas> I'd like to find a way for us to give you some info about our mil readiness and turns until attack [22:40:01] * MasterZen is now known as MZ|writing [22:40:05] Togas> I'm asking the guys right now in chat to see what we can work out. [22:40:38] Togas> I know we keep saying we're going to attack "eventually" ... and that we've probably tested your patience. [22:41:01] OctavianX> I'll admit, there has been a great deal of anxiety over here about whether or not there's actually something going on up there. [22:41:39] Togas> We're going to authorize Trip, most likely, to reveal to you our #s and upgrade status and give you our projected turn of attack. [22:42:16] Togas> I know that it's less than 10 turns now, but not much less. I'm hoping that the extra gold speeds things up by allowing not just upgrades but also rushbuilds. [22:42:20] OctavianX> That would be a great morale-booster for us. [22:42:29] Togas> [22:42:33] Togas> hold on, brb. [22:50:33] Togas> back [22:51:14] Togas> Ok, Trip is still "gone" but I'm going to talk to him about this idea. So far the Consuls seem to be in favor of it [22:52:01] OctavianX> I've always been a bit curious... who exactly are the consuls? I know what they do, but I don't know who exactly is one. [22:52:17] Togas> We have a Triumpherate. [22:52:20] Togas> 3 rulers [22:52:34] Togas> NotYouEither, MrWhereItsAt, BigFree [22:52:36] MZ|writing> no-one knows who they are [22:52:39] OctavianX> lol [22:52:42] MZ|writing> those three are really just puppets [22:52:48] Togas> LOL [22:52:52] MZ|writing> we have a secret government running things from a secret forum [22:52:58] Togas> Me and MZ secretly control them [22:53:07] MZ|writing> hehe... we wish :P

	03-09-2003 09:39									#174
	Part II of CFC Chat Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

PART II

quote: [22:53:31] WhiteBandit> what's funny is that i just told togas to say that [22:53:38] BigFree> HAHA [22:53:42] Togas> anyhow, those 3 are our "Consuls", they choose the Ministers, approve all plans, make all the decisions, etc. [22:54:10] MZ|writing> well, that's what we tell other teams of course [22:54:16] MZ|writing> so they think we're actually democratic [22:54:20] Togas> we have a method for electing/removing them as well. We also allow any team member to propose changes to the law, etc. [22:54:46] OctavianX> It's more or less a democratic dictatorship, then. [22:54:59] Togas> it's a Republic [22:55:01] nye> yes [22:55:05] MZ|writing> yes, like yesterday I started a proposal for nominating me as Supreme Uber-Commander Lord Protector Imperator of Apolyton, but it just barely didn't pass [22:55:11] Togas> We elect our leaders, they take care of business for us. [22:55:16] OctavianX> hehe [22:55:29] WhiteBandit> Basically, the official name of this government type is "Controlled-Chaos" [22:55:37] WhiteBandit> i believe Breakaway is thinking of putting it into C3C [22:55:38] WhiteBandit> [22:55:42] Togas> LOL! [22:55:44] OctavianX> lol [22:55:45] MZ|writing> hehehehehe [22:55:58] OctavianX> sounds workable. [22:56:01] MZ|writing> imagine that, "choose your government: Anarchy, Republic, APOLYTON" [22:56:24] OctavianX> the corruption must be terrible. [22:56:32] WhiteBandit> yes [22:56:33] WhiteBandit> but [22:56:38] WhiteBandit> the worker efficiency is AMAZING [22:56:41] MZ|writing> plus, you get an animated Tiger leaderhead called Consul notyoueither [22:57:00] OctavianX> I'd like to see that... [22:57:23] MZ|writing> not if he's "furious" [22:57:40] Togas> you DO NOT want to see that [22:57:54] WhiteBandit> "drunk" mode is funny though [22:58:02] OctavianX> I like to call Fanatikese governemt 'progress-choking buearcracy.' [22:58:31] Togas> you gotta just declare Martial Law. [22:58:41] WhiteBandit> controlled-chaos is amazing. seriously. CFC could easily impliment it. I mean you are President. This is how it would work. You only agree with decisions you like [22:58:46] WhiteBandit> [22:59:02] WhiteBandit> and then impliment them! that's it [22:59:04] * Trip[gone] is now known as Trip [22:59:12] OctavianX> I've tried, but then I'd be executed on the spot by the angry horsed that control things around here. [22:59:17] MZ|writing> bah! [22:59:22] OctavianX> *hordes. [22:59:36] MZ|writing> I'll help you with your coup d'etat [22:59:46] WhiteBandit> yeah... what i described was the "controlled" part. you are describing the chaos part of it [23:00:16] * OctavianX makes a note to take that part out of the log... [23:00:39] MZ|writing> noo, leave it!!! [23:01:17] Togas> we'll keep it in OUR LOG [23:01:56] WhiteBandit> [Note to log editor: Please remove the above comment of BigFree propositioning OctavianX for sex. The teams do not need to see this] [23:02:17] Togas> LOL!! [23:02:20] BigFree> 12:4P1 [23:02:26] WhiteBandit> that was close [23:02:27] OctavianX> haha! [23:02:32] * BigFree slaps WhiteBandit around a bunch with a large green donkey ****! [23:02:34] WhiteBandit> that would have been embarrassing [23:08:11] * MZ|writing is now known as MZ [23:08:40] Togas> ok, I have to head out for the night [23:09:05] Togas> OctX, we'll get you the treaty if not tonight, tomorrow. [23:09:10] Togas> Chat with you guys later! [23:09:18] OctavianX> g'night [23:10:10] * Quits: Togas (~tom_ogas@c-66-229-208-138.we.client2.attbi.com) (Quit: ) [23:14:13] WhiteBandit> Octavian - we should be sending the turn now [23:14:28] WhiteBandit> if possible, can you tell us where GCA units are in relation to Yun once you get it? [23:14:42] OctavianX> maybe. [23:14:55] OctavianX> I should've had this english paper done an hour ago, so it's a maybe. [23:15:18] WhiteBandit> doh [23:15:19] WhiteBandit> ok [23:17:22] nye> turn should be there, octavian [23:17:55] OctavianX> It's here. [23:19:44] MZ> ok, summary is done [23:36:47] nye> i gotta go. godd night [23:36:49] * Parts: nye (notyoueith@h24-86-76-127.ed.shawcable.net) [23:37:03] * Quits: OctavianX (~thesim109@coin-as3-24.coin.org) (Quit: ) [23:38:04] * Quits: Trip (~trip@c-67-162-147-249.client.comcast.net) (Quit: ) [23:49:12] * MZ is now known as MasterZen [00:47:32] * Disconnected Session Close: Tue Sep 02 00:47:33 2003

	04-09-2003 12:32									#175
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Sent to Darekill shortly after contact:

quote: Greetings from the land of Apolyton! We are most surprised and pleased to have found a galley belonging to your great nation in our turn. This historic event, the contact of the two continents is surely to be remembered as one of the most important and exciting moments of the game. That this contact is among our peoples opens up the posibility of a long and lasting relationship, based on trust, cooperation and above all friendship. There is much our two civilizations have to offer each other, and for this reason Apolyton would like to begin preliminary talks for a technological and contact trade. This could involve a trade of Feudalism for perhaps Engineering, as well as contact with Civilization Fanatics Center and Civilization Gaming Network if possible. To save time we have sent you Feudalism and contact with CFC unaccepted this turn in case you agree to this proposal. Now that our nations have met, do not hesitate to contact us for whatever matters your nation deems necessary. I am the Deputy Foreign Affairs Minister of Apolyton and also from now on your official Ambassador. Feel free to contact me at any time via PM or e-mail. Our Foreign Affairs Minsiter, Togas, is also available for consultation as well as our three Consuls who are notyoueither, MrWhereItsAt and BigFree. For our part, we would like hear your team's opinion on this trade deal idea. In the meantime we wish luck to your exploration efforts and await your response. -Master Zen Deputy Foreign Affairs Minister Apolyton

reply from feanor0815 who is now officially their ambassador to us:

quote: Hello to Apolyton & greetings too from the Webringen people. Like you we think, that cooperation is the best way to gain advantage in the game and think that we can establish a prosperous relationship between our two nations. Of course we're interested in both, contact and feudalism but are still discussing. Engeneering may work for Feud but we think there should be some compensation for the price difference that's about 240G so say our analysts. I am reachable over email or Webring/Apolyton PM. feanor0815 webringen Ambassador

	05-09-2003 04:39									#176
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Posting this on the request of MZ:

quote: [14:54] * OctavianX (~thesim109@coin-as3-21.coin.org) has joined #isdgfamtalks [14:54] OctavianX: BigFree, you there? [14:54] BigFree: hey [14:54] * Trip (~trip@c-67-162-147-249.client.comcast.net) has joined #ISDGFAMTALKS [14:54] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Trip [14:54] OctavianX: Just so you know, Apolyton's message appears to have done the trick... [14:54] BigFree: [14:54] * MasterZen (~raguil@dup-200-66-230-126.prodigy.net.mx) has joined #Isdgfamtalks [14:54] * ChanServ sets mode: +o MasterZen [14:54] Trip: what's up? [14:55] MasterZen: yo [14:55] MasterZen: little news for you: [14:55] Trip: [15:54] OctavianX: Just so you know, Apolyton's message appears to have done the trick... [14:55] MasterZen: GCA is going to offer you a peace proposal this turn [14:55] OctavianX: I know. [14:55] MasterZen: I've been sweet talking them into it so they think we still don't want to go to war [14:55] Trip: bah :P [14:55] OctavianX: GCA is proposing an unconditonal cease-fire [14:56] BigFree: nice [14:56] OctavianX: Either you got to them, or they lost at Yun Qiuling, or both [14:56] BigFree: perfect [14:56] * AdrianHon (~ask@dsl-217-155-173-222.zen.co.uk) has joined #isdgfamtalks [14:56] BigFree: I think we got to them [14:56] Trip: you'll have to see if they're retreating from Yun or not [14:56] MasterZen: I hope they lost at Yun QUiuling [14:57] BigFree: Yes, that would be better [14:57] OctavianX: Win or lose at Yun Qiuling, we're accepting... [14:57] BigFree: right [14:57] MasterZen: whaat? [14:57] BigFree: the cease fire [14:58] BigFree: no conditions on it [14:58] Trip: if they're making a full retreat that could cause problems [14:58] OctavianX: Hmmm... [14:58] MasterZen: plus, GCA put some conditions on accepting peace, conditions we will not accept [14:58] MasterZen: (contact with GWT and world map) [14:58] OctavianX: the Gamecatcher Alliance is offering you, Fantikou, a cease fire using the in-game term "peace treaty". This is an unconditional offer, since we have no real choice after you managed to repeat your behaviour and bring Apolyton close to treachery as well. Following their demand, we are stopping to advance. [14:58] BigFree: HAHA [14:58] BigFree: nice [14:59] OctavianX: I thought this whole thing was more secretive than THAT. [14:59] BigFree: we can ignore GCA's demands [14:59] MasterZen: hehe, now we're the bad guys : [14:59] MasterZen: D [14:59] BigFree: just as long as they give CFC peace for one turn [14:59] BigFree: CFC still has those Pikes opn the way, right? [15:00] OctavianX: Yun Qiuling only had the one reg pike this turn... [15:02] OctavianX: Well, I'll let there be a bit of time for discussion at home before we accept. [15:04] BigFree: Hmm, if they lost at that city and you have additional Pikes on the way, then maybe peace isn't what you'd want to accept. [15:04] BigFree: but, if they did not attack, then you have a discussion [15:06] OctavianX: Still, the majority of our defensive forces are concentrated in Yun Qiuling. Towns like Shen Ling and Jiang Mapi are left relativly defenesless because of that. [15:06] BigFree: right [15:07] BigFree: What if they have some badly injured units near you, will you not want to take them out? [15:10] OctavianX: At this point, any chance to break the fighting seems good to me. [15:10] OctavianX: We'll dispatch a reply with the turn. [15:11] BigFree: yes, we had only hoped for a one turn break in the action [15:11] BigFree: long enough to get more troops to Yun [15:12] OctavianX: Admittedly, I'd like to use that grace period to plan our own assault on one of the new GCA towns, without having to worry about them coming after us.

	05-09-2003 04:41									#177
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Excerpts from an ICQ chat between MZ and Lucky today:

quote: Lucky (3:40 PM) : hi Master Zen (3:41 PM) : hey Master Zen (3:41 PM) : how's it going? Lucky (3:43 PM) : well, considering a war against "interestingly" fighting enemies on one side and threats of destruction from our "friends" on the other side ... Lucky (3:43 PM) : ... very good Lucky (3:49 PM) : in any case Master Zen (3:50 PM) : so, if you deny iron to CFC then you'll call it quits? Lucky (3:50 PM) : that was our plan Lucky (3:51 PM) : and that was our offer for peace with them as well Lucky (3:51 PM) : but with you backing them, I donīt see any possible agreement here Lucky (3:52 PM) : in any case, we donīt have much choice in what we can do, so I guess weīll have to comply with your demands :S Master Zen (3:52 PM) : I was not really involved uring the past, but IIRC we offered to mediate a peace settlement with you two Master Zen (3:52 PM) : *past month Lucky (3:53 PM) : a few days ago, yes Lucky (3:53 PM) : and earlier as well, but at that time CFC didnīt want to hear anything about that Master Zen (3:55 PM) : well, we still hope this will be over soo Lucky (3:55 PM) : so how much time do we have until you crush us?

	12-09-2003 11:06									#178
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Random chit-chat with OctavianX of CFC

quote: Start of Octavian_X buffer: Thu Sep 11 23:07:45 2003 Session Ident: Octavian_X (irc-chat) (~octavian@Oper.irc-chat.net) [22:53:58] WhiteBandit> i'm not sure if anyone has contacted you the last few days, things have been hectic around here [22:54:10] WhiteBandit> from what i understand, GCA caved and you guys made peace? [22:55:10] Octavian_X> not caved, but went for a cease fire. [22:55:17] Octavian_X> In game, we're at peace. [22:55:19] WhiteBandit> ok [22:55:25] WhiteBandit> how long is the cease fire supposed to last? [22:55:34] Octavian_X> Supposedly, there were supposed to be peace talks today, but so far as i know, they never happened.. [22:55:38] Octavian_X> Wasn't defined. [22:55:42] WhiteBandit> that is most excellent though [22:56:07] WhiteBandit> of course, now GCA is paranoid ultra-paranoid of us, which we both wanted and didn't want [22:56:23] WhiteBandit> Lucky was talking with MasterZen a few days ago and asked "so, how long until you crush us?" [22:56:52] WhiteBandit> do they still have units positioned near your territory or have they been moving them back? [22:56:58] Octavian_X> I thought it was supposed to be a secret attack... [22:57:15] Octavian_X> AFAIK, we can only see a spear and a sword... [22:57:18] WhiteBandit> it is supposed to be secret [22:57:36] WhiteBandit> but that letter made lucky more paranoid i think [22:57:37] WhiteBandit> :-/ [22:57:41] WhiteBandit> MZ brushed it off though [22:57:56] WhiteBandit> he said "oh, we have no intention of attacking, we just needed a strongly worded letter to get you guys at peace" [22:58:23] WhiteBandit> it seemed to be an acceptable answer to lucky... i think his crush comment was (mostly) sarcasm [22:58:35] Octavian_X> Still, I get the feeling they know something is up. I think they're using the cease fire to reposition forces up north toward you guys [22:58:43] WhiteBandit> we feel exactly the same [22:58:44] WhiteBandit> :-/ [22:58:54] WhiteBandit> oh well, more units to kill faster I guess [22:59:08] WhiteBandit> that is why i wanted to see if anyone was able to talk to you on their movement in the last few turns? [22:59:16] WhiteBandit> i.e, they have been moving away from you? [22:59:28] Octavian_X> They've been retreating, yes [22:59:40] Octavian_X> In their attack, that GCA army went down to 6/14 [22:59:58] WhiteBandit> nice! [23:00:46] WhiteBandit> we kind of expected that though [23:00:59] WhiteBandit> Trip brushes it off: "That just means more units to kill the first turn we attack" [23:01:34] WhiteBandit> what is your stance right now if i may ask? [23:01:38] Octavian_X> Still, CDG was pretty confident when they went on the offensive... [23:01:48] Octavian_X> We're building up defensively. Pikes in almost all cities [23:01:49] WhiteBandit> are you guys focusing on military, or commercial? [23:01:53] WhiteBandit> okay [23:02:03] Octavian_X> under production, that is [23:02:07] WhiteBandit> still no trading with GCA right? [23:02:17] Octavian_X> no. embargo as promised [23:02:27] WhiteBandit> excellent! [23:02:27] Octavian_X> any new stuff from GWT? [23:03:28] WhiteBandit> not really at the moment, we're trying to hammer out some trade things still. their ambassador finally responded to MZ and was willing to trade Engineering for Feudalism AND something like 200 gold (we pay the gold) [23:03:54] WhiteBandit> so we're kinda chuffed at that, but i think we're going to respectfully decline that offer and see if there is anything to work out [23:03:58] WhiteBandit> have you made contact with them yet? [23:04:29] Octavian_X> Yeah, their galley found us. [23:04:33] WhiteBandit> okay [23:04:39] Octavian_X> Just some basic welcomings exchanged. [23:04:41] WhiteBandit> togas wants to know if i can get you in #isdgfamtalks? [23:05:27] Octavian_X> Not right now. [23:05:33] Octavian_X> I need to run off to bed. 1,82,1 [23:05:33] WhiteBandit> ok [23:05:38] WhiteBandit> totally understandable [23:06:13] WhiteBandit> thanks for chatting though! we'll definitely be chatting much more very soon [23:06:37] Octavian_X> g'night WB End of Octavian_X buffer Thu Sep 11 23:07:45 2003

	18-09-2003 07:09									#179
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The MZ-Feanor PM Collection, coming soon to a bookstore near you:

first, the first proposal by GWT which everyone though Eng-Feud was SEPARATE from Mono-Inv:

quote: Hello Master Zen, sorry for delay but WE and interesting progress has lead us in some discussion. Nevertheless we would accept Feudalism for Engeneering. Then our future science would be Monotheism if you could go on Invention. A restriction would be that the Techs shouldn`t be traded for 20 Turns. on ICQ i'm available on 172223878 btw feanor0815 Webringen Ambassador

my reply after we sent them Feud twice and they didn't take it:

quote: Hello feanar0815 We offered your team Feudalism the past turn yet the offer was turned down. For give me for not understanding but did we not agree to Feudalism for Engineering? I was under the impression that we did agree. Also, I'm not sure if you are referring to the Mono-Invention deal as a separate trade, or part of this one. Please clarify this as we are very interested in having further technological cooperation Regards -MasterZen

I was right

quote: Hello Master Zen, it should have been accepted but was only send i think. The trade restriction and future research was thought as part of the deal. So after that you would be in advance for the next trade. feanor0815 Webringen Ambassador

In short, they expect the full monty: Feud-Eng and Inv-Mono.

	20-09-2003 23:21									#180
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Sent letter to GCA...

quote: Hey Lucky, Our team has been debating back and forth about what to do with Map Making. Now that you and CFC are at peace again, we're willing to trade for it. However, I don't think you have techs that you can offer us at the moment. We would be willing to sell it to you guys. Let me know what you can offer for it and we'll work something out. WhiteBandit