31-03-2004 16:01									#151
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

eBray take their cut because the sellers have to pay for their items to be listed. You don't have to pay anything to buy the items - well, not beyond the agreed purchase price, and the cost of postage (usually quite high).

	31-03-2004 16:13									#152
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Ah ok. Maybe I'll create an account later then.

	31-03-2004 23:35									#153
	Got spare money?

Another question:

How are the added weapon proficiencies handled with tutu? For instance, daggers use the shortsword profficieny, rather then dagger proficiency. Is this just a display error, or are the enw weapon proficiencies essentially useless?

	01-04-2004 00:47									#154
	Inflate your Upload Space

Nevermind. I checked it myself ( ) by looking at the thac0 and the proficencies seem to work as they should.

	01-04-2004 01:18									#155
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I also have a query regarding tutu. I presume you can just install the games, then expansions, then the correct patches for the expansions and ignore the patches for the original games. Is that right?

	01-04-2004 01:20									#156
	Suffering from ads?

Yes. 100% correct. If you have BG2 and ToB, install the ToB patch, as the SoA patch will corrupt your game, and force you to reinstall the 100's of Megs

-Jam

	01-04-2004 01:44									#157
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Yeah, a gamer like me knows the drill but better safe than sorry when the full install takes like 5 hours to do (note: hyperbole).

Just waiting on BG1 now..........probably I'll get it from eBay in the end.

	01-04-2004 01:48									#158
	Tired of ads?

So... you must be vaguely familar with 2nd and 3rd D&D rules by now Doc. (I would assume) What kind of character are you leaning towards for the big BG run?

-Jam

	01-04-2004 01:59									#159
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Actually I will open that to the masses.

Also in installing I chose the 'normal' difficulty level from about 5 choices..........I can change it though so I could use some input on that.

I am leaning towards a fighter character, but I haven't read the manual yet to see the advantages and disadvantages of each. Plus KOTOR had no dual classes.

	01-04-2004 02:09									#160
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KOTOR uses a really watered down version of the rules, that's why you got reccommended it as a noob

Normal difficulty is good. You can change it at anytime ingame, but the always getting max HP on level-up helps a noob, and the always copying scrolls is good too. The harder modes are really for those who know some of the cheese.

I reccommed for a first time through take something simple that can't be screwed up :

a) A plain fighter/paladin, using twohanded swords and the heaviest armour. Simple but effective for most of the game.
b) A plain wizard, weak to start with, forcing you to learn all the spells and use the team tactically to keep yourself alive till you become a true force of destruction at higher levels.

Clerics need some knowledge of the spell system, and knowing where the good weapons are, otherwise they are just boring healers, while Thiefs require you to have a basic mastery of the tactics involved in the engine. Its best to use an NPC thief in the party initially, because you can muck about with their skills and if they die, well, YOU'RE still alive

So... either hack them or fry them - your preference. I'd leave the multis for a second run through, after you've had a few people join the party and you have a feel for what your "style" is by commanding the rest of the team. As for dual classing... try it with Imoen in BG1 (classic thief-->wizard dual) and see if you think its a good trade off.

-Jam

	01-04-2004 02:18									#161
	Increase Your PM Length

Ok I'll probably try the fighter/paladin. But I've just installed NWN so maybe we should talk more about classes for that.

	01-04-2004 02:33									#162
	Suffering from ads?

I'm happy to post RPG stuff all day

Now 3rd Edition rules are a bit more complicated when building a character.

Firstly - the most important part of NWN is probably your character. Its a ROLE playing game, and the role you choose has a huge effect on the game you end up playing.

Secondly - its a GAME, and it has rules. A reasonable knowledge of these will show you just how they can be exploited to "überpower" your character.

Thirdly, the game is designed to be balanced. This means a level 20 Ranger should be as powerful as a level 20 Rogue (In theory) What the designers never managed to balance is the fact that a level 19 Rogue with 1 level of Ranger is much more powerful than either.

So... with NWN it pays off to RTFM or ask a few questions so you can plan your character's career. It really sucks if you can't take x feat or you don't get x spell.

For NWN the "classic" class combination would be a Fighter(1)/Rogue(2)/Cleric(x) combining the ability to use all weapons with good combat skills, decent magic and spotting/evading the less dangerous traps. Personally I hate this combination, but its kinda "self-supporting"

I'd dump the Cleric levels myself, and level Fighter/Rogue evenly, bearing in mind the Fighter get bonus combat feats at even numbered levels and the Rogue sneak attack improves by 1d6 at odd numbered levels.

-Jam

	01-04-2004 02:43									#163
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Fighter/Rogue sounds ideal for me actually. I think I'll go with that, but I am still RTFM as we speak. More complex than KOTOR.

	01-04-2004 02:47									#164
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Btw on the balance point it seemed to me from KOTOR that the comabt oriented class was much easier to play early on, even if you played the Scout/Scoundrel intelligently. This was partly due to the fact that you start with a dual blaster wielding soldier and another scoundrel.

Later on it was probably closer since the Consular has lots of awesome force powers, but that's mid/late game.

Also in KOTOR I felt the skills were not useful enough to draw you away from the combat class to the classes that get more skills. The amount of feats that the soldier gets just p1sses all over being able to repair a droid once in a while.

By the time you were ruing the soldier's rubbish force powers you had Jolee anyway.

So I don't think the classes are that well balanced in KOTOR.

Or am I missing the point?

	01-04-2004 02:55									#165
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Its not balanced at low levels. At low levels the fighter/soldier simply overpowers the more sneaky/mystical classes. They strike back at higher levels though and eventually surpass the melee clodders. You know, with a sword you can only hit someone SO hard, and normally only ONE person.

At higher levels the Wizard (or whatever) casts one spell to protect himself vs the Fighter's attacks, and then blasts him into dust at his leisure. Or the Rogue simply kills the fighter from behind with a single blow without the fighter being able to react

In NWN you can't rely on the NPCs so much. They seem to be an odd bunch in the original 3 modules and expansions, and in community modules ... well, who knows what to expect???

-Jam

	01-04-2004 03:10									#166
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Sorry were you talking about KOTOR there? I don't think the scoundrel/consular pulls ahead in the late stage, though the gap is certainly closed.

With a soldier you get some force powers, and force immunity + 3rd level speed is only 5 in total. You don't need any more to stop consular characters pwning you. In KOTOR force armour doesn't stop the whopping 8 attacks that a guardian with level 3 speed and maxed out flurry has. The other attacking spells perform ok against a force immune guardian (the immuntity is not complete), but I wouldn't say the advantage, if any, lies with the consular.

	01-04-2004 03:16									#167
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Well, I don't follow the KOTOR forums as closely as I used to, but all the "best builds" used to be Consular based. Don't ask me for the details, but pop over to Bioware forums. I never really got the whole Star Wars thing.

-Jam

	01-04-2004 03:19									#168
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Eh guys... Maybe start threads on NWN and KOTOR? I wanna read about BG1

	01-04-2004 03:22									#169
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Yeah sorry for the threadjack, but this crowd were the ones I wanted to respond.

Threadjack over.

	01-04-2004 05:31									#170
	Increase Your PM Length

who's that person in your avatar hueij? And the freak in Jaski's avatar?

Btw I just finished Jaheira's quest. She's no longer cursed. Too bad I know most stuff anyway from last time I played the game so that kinda spoils it
Ployer and his wizards are such pussies btw. I didn't take 1 HP of damage, and I was doing the battle drunk! Remind me, can I do anything with Jaheira's leftover hair?

	01-04-2004 05:35									#171
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Not one single thing.

I keep it though, as I keep all the "quest trophies" - people's heads, hands, arms, eyes, scales, corpses etc...

quote: And the freak in Ja[m]ski's avatar?

Assuming you're misspelling my name, I'll tell you. Its Gustav Mahler 1860-1911, Austrian composer and conductor.

-Jam

	01-04-2004 14:23									#172
	Got spare money?

Damn! I wanted to answer that question.

Doc, I chose a ranger for my first game of BG1 (still playing), just because I have fond memories of playing as a ranger with pencil and paper AD&D, although that was many years ago (1st edition?). I like the racial enemy idea, but that makes no bloody difference at higher levels because it won't protect you from poisoning from those creatures (I'd have racial enemy: Mafia otherwise ), and you can do as much damage with a decent sword as you would with the small bonus. I've just got Cure Light Wounds, which is good to have, but I'm not going to use her as a healer unless absolutely necessary.
I wish I'd gone for a Lawful Good fighter though. I'm enjoying it, but a fighter can get up to 5 stars in weapon proficiency in any weapon, and a ranger can only get 2. More stars, more damage. Look at the tables in the back of the manual to see how much gold you can save when buying things with a high reputation, and you'll understand why it is important to play your first game as lawful good. After that, go wild with your roleplaying and choose more appropriate alignments for whichever characters you want to use, but first time through you need to learn the system.

	01-04-2004 14:28									#173
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Duke, there's some much better 1st level spells for a Ranger to take than a crappy CLW piece of poo. Entangle, Sanctuary, Bless and Remove Fear you might actually use

Tip - cast Entangle with the Ranger while 2 Wizards cast Web and Grease simultaniously on the same spot. Anyone in the area will have to pass 3 saves each round in order to be allowed to crawl at half speed. Most nice

Then get the old bows out, of course

-Jam

	01-04-2004 14:35									#174
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I was just given CLW. I didn't choose it. I got it just before I last saved, so I haven't investigated anything yet. Maybe I've got a choice....
I'll never use charm animal though. I'd love a bear tank, as described earlier, but I doubt I'd ever use it. Would I still get exp for it dying when I was using it as a tank? I'd love to charm a wolf and have it walk back to the fur shop with me.

	01-04-2004 14:43									#175
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Oh... you don't mean as a Ranger spell then, but as an innate ability. Of course!!!!!

Yes. If you're Lawful Good your character develops a series of innate "healing and helping" abilites at the rate of one each time you rest for the first time in a new chapter. You got a dream sequence, yes, and then it appeared on the "star" button to the right hand side of the toolbar?

If you're Chaotic Evil you get much more evil abilities, and anywhere inbetween you get a mix.

I was wondering how you got a Ranger to level 8 already.

-Jam

	01-04-2004 15:10									#176
	Increase Your PM Length

Maybe he discovered some things you didn't know about.

	01-04-2004 15:23									#177
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Like how to hack the game you mean

-Jam

	01-04-2004 15:26									#178
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yeah - n00b!

Yes, I had a quick snooze outside Nashkel in order to make sure I had enough spells to survive the inevitable assassination attempt.
Btw Doc, you have people trying to assassinate you whenever you turn a corner. Some of them are laughable, but some are decent fights.

	01-04-2004 15:28									#179
	Got spare money?

You did memorise Remove Fear, right? Otherwise the Naskell fight will drive you nuts.

-Jam

	01-04-2004 15:35									#180
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by duke o' york I wish I'd gone for a Lawful Good fighter though. I'm enjoying it, but a fighter can get up to 5 stars in weapon proficiency in any weapon, and a ranger can only get 2. More stars, more damage.

For BGI that's very true. For BGII it makes little difference, and in BGII Rangers get an extra 2* in dual wielding. Very useful.

I'm playing as a ranger, because I like the RP and the dual. Mine is like an undead hunter. He's Neutral Good (so he's not bound by law to hunt undead in a legal manner), he has Vampire as his racial enemy, and he'll dual to a cleric quite early (for BGII) so he'll have high level turn undead. He'll also wield the Mace of Disruption.

So far I've got to Nashkel, I've just turned to level 4, and my party has:
Imoen (lead, level 5)
Minsc (level 4)
Jaheira (level 3/3)
Khalid (level 3, almost 4)
And soo Dynaheir.

I'm missing my usual magic ability, as I usually have 2 mages, but I Khalid with a bow and Minsc and my PC charging give me a lot of firepower.

quote: Originally posted by duke o' york Look at the tables in the back of the manual to see how much gold you can save when buying things with a high reputation, and you'll understand why it is important to play your first game as lawful good. After that, go wild with your roleplaying and choose more appropriate alignments for whichever characters you want to use, but first time through you need to learn the system.

I dunno, it only costs a bit og gold to put it up the 1 rep point that Lawful Good gives over Neutral or Chaotic Good, and IMHO, unless you're a paladin or a cleric, it's more realistic, and a lot easier to RP (gives you more things to do) if you're one of those, as opposed to Lawful Good. Very few people would be that, IMHO, and usually those with some sort of religious duty to do so.