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Tripledoc
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Supporter of War and Supporter of Occupation is the same thing. Don't spin it.
The way I see it the danger of civil war between Shi'a and Sunni has been vastly overstated. New York Times says that shi'a and sunni are now (have always been?)working closely together militarily and politically.
The effectiveness of the reconstruction efforts have been very inneffective so far, too few people with pure intentions and too much corruption, and too many adventurers.
So that leaves only one reason, and that is the installment of Democracy, which means the installment of a foreign based pro US puppet government. The people of Iraq apparently don't want that.
One can only wonder why the media have been so complacent in their rosy view of things.
I can't tell the US what they should do, but I want the Danish contingent out now. They would do a better job in Afghanistan or Africa.
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Drake Tungsten
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Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:35
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Taking Japanese and South Korean hostages now? I hate to break it to all you Arab hotheads out there, but when it comes to an insanity contest, the East Asians have your asses beat. I'm not sure this is a fight you really want... 
quote:
Japanese, Koreans taken hostage
(CNN) -- Three Japanese citizens and seven South Korean civilians have been taken hostage in Iraq, where fighting between insurgents and coalition troops has escalated in recent days.
Also, Iranian TV is airing footage of two Arab residents of Jerusalem, reportedly kidnapped in Iraq, and the British government is hunting down a citizen who has been missing since Monday.
The Arabic-language news channel Al-Jazeera Thursday aired video showing three kidnapped Japanese citizens in Iraq.
A previously unknown group calling itself the Mujahedeen Squadrons issued a statement saying the three would be burned alive unless Japan pulled its troops from Iraq.
There are conflicting reports about the occupations of those being held. There is at least one journalist among them. Japanese media reports say one is a non-government worker and the other is an aid worker.
They were shown with knives held to their throats in the video, and were sometimes blindfolded.
The Japanese government is meeting in a crisis session. An official, Yasuo Fukuda, said the government is trying to confirm the report, but noted that there is no reason for self-defense forces to withdraw from Iraq.
"If those innocent people were taken hostage, it would be unforgiveable and we will feel very strong anger and we demand their immediate release," Fukuda said.
"We will do our utmost for those people to be released unharmed."
The names of the three -- seen on passports in news footage are Koriyama Soichiro, who has a press card issued in Jordan for Weekly Asahi, and Imai Noriaki -- both males. The third is a woman, Takato Nahoko.
South Korea's Foreign Ministry confirmed that seven South Korean civilians have been abducted.
The Foreign Ministry confirmed that eight pastors were on a missionary trip to Iraq.
They were in two jeeps when they were stopped by armed guards at a checkpoint about an hour and a half outside of Baghdad.
A pastor who escaped reported this to the Korean ambassador to Iraq a short while ago.
The South Korean Embassy is attempting to find out who took the missionaries and where they are being held, and have asked for the help of the U.S. military in Iraq.
MBC, one of the local TV stations in Seoul, aired an interview with a woman who said she was one of the eight who were stopped at a checkpoint while on their way into Baghdad.
She said while she was able to get away, the rest of her party were taken by the Iraqis.
The British Foreign Office said Thursday one of its civilians is missing.
The man, Gary Teeley, was in Nasiriya before he disappeared, a spokesman with the British Foreign Office said.
Officials did not say whether they believe Teeley was kidnapped.
His family has been contacted. The office said they were made aware that he was missing on Monday. The Foreign Office is working with the coalition to find Teeley.
Israeli media reported Thursday that two Arab residents of Jerusalem were kidnapped in Iraq.
Israeli government and Foreign Ministry officials did not immediately comment.
Media sources identified the two as George Yakoub Asuk and Nabil Marzuk, residents of Jerusalem's Old City Christian Quarter.
According to Israeli media, Iranian television broadcast footage of the two, along with identifying documents.
Haaretz, the Israeli daily, said the Iranian report showed "two identity cards, a Maccabi HMO card, an Israeli driver's license and a supermarket chain discount card." |
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/m...sing/index.html
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Tripledoc
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It is stupid to send missionaries to Iraq. Mossad agents are not welcome either apparently.
And Drake, saying that Asians are just as fanatic as Muslim fundamentalists is a racist statement btw.
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Tripledoc
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
BTW, awful convenient to have those women and kids all nice in a line for the photographers. Wonder how far they had to be dragged from? |
They would have to be "dragged" from the place where they were gunned down to the hospital. Is there anything strange in that?
Do you think that arabs simply leave their dead to rot in the streets or fields or what?
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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:35
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quote:
Originally posted by MOBIUS
No I don't care if you have armed insurgents in a mosque - you just don't bomb it in a country like Iraq!
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Sure, you just let them know that "Hey, you can turn that Mosque into a headquarters and shoot at us from it, and we'll let you, cuz we're the nice guys." 
No wonder the UK has declined from being a major world power to being the lapdog of one.
quote:
Sure you may kill a bunched of insurgents - but how many MORE are going to sign up just because of this!!?
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Not a lot - certainly not more than we can also kill in short order. If the Iraqis don't like it, then don't let armed insurgents misuse mosques as paramilitary facilities. What next, set up AAA and SAM positions from the minarets and put artillery in the grounds?
quote:
This is sheer stupidity on a grand scale and the US has played into the insurgents hands!
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I'm glad one bomb near a mosque has given you so much to get excited over.
quote:
The area should have been locked down and cordoned off and handed over to Iraqi security troops with US supervision.
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And in the hours it would take to accomplish this, the Iraqi insurgents would happily cooperate. And the Iraqi security troops would be in sufficient numbers and be sufficiently trained.
quote:
Religious leaders of the mosque could have helped in getting the men inside to surrender - or deal with it Iraqi to Iraqi...
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Or they could have done nothing, because in your world, you ask people nicely and that's it.
quote:
But no, let's do Overkill US stylee...
BIG F*CKING MISTAKE!
You guys don't get it, the more brutal you are - the more resistance you are going to get! It is that simple!
But then again, this whole mission is just a revenge attack anyway cos a bunch of mercs got toasted...
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You've never seen the US go in for overkill or be particularly brutal. 
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Cruddy
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
No wonder the UK has declined from being a major world power to being the lapdog of one.
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Anyone else notice what is wrong with this statement?
Like, swap "the" for "a"?
And I'm not sorry it happened. Better a small power that cares for its people than THE world power that treats its poor as expendable.
On topic; last I heard (couple of hours ago) "US forces were battling to retake control of Kut and Najaf".
It's funny how they were never reported as lost in the first place.
[COLOR=blue]* Cruddy goes away to let his temper cool
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Eli
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Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:35
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quote:
It's funny how they were never reported as lost in the first place.
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They did. See my post in this thread on the 08-04-2004 13:05 (GMT +2) :
quote:
Originally posted by Eli
BAGHDAD, April 8 (Reuters) - U.S.-led coalition forces do
not have control of the cities of Najaf and Kut, where Shi'ite
militiamen have seized control of key buildings in the centre of
the towns, the top U.S. general in Iraq said on Thursday.
Lieutenant-General Ricardo Sanchez said coalition troops in
the cities -- who include Ukrainian and Spanish soldiers -- were
in their bases on the edge of the towns. |
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Cruddy
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Thanks Eli. But that little nuggest hasn't been reported on the BBC broadcasts I've heard.
It's a minor point... but again, thank you.
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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
Michael, you said yourself some days ago that "War is political and strategical, battle is tactical", and I agree. But don't you think that bombing a Mosque fits perfectly into that wisdom? Winning one battle by acting like *******s can make you lose the whole war, politically.
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Two totally different situations. There are mosques and there are mosques. It's not like we systematically demolished the main one in Najaf to get Sadr. It's not like we systematically have non-Muslims enterning mosques by force to search them. It's not like we are destroying them on a regular basis to retaliate for them being used as bases for attack in the past.
Arab leaders, including Hussein, have historically shown little or no regard for the sanctity of mosques, and Sadr's followers assassinated an Ayatollah on the steps of one last year. The people and religious leaders sure as hell don't prevent either secular or jihadi fighters from profaning mosques by using them to store materiel or to fight from.
Despite a little venting in the street, and the efforts of arab propagandists, most Iraqis are not going to change their fundamental interests or positions one way or the other. The Saddamites in Fallujah have nothing to gain from the end of the Saddam regime, so they're going to be implacably opposed to us regardless, until we render them impotent to resist. Sadr's and Sistani's followers, the Kurds, and other Shiite and Sunni and secular groups all have their own interests and agendas, and in the long term, the occasional bomb in a mosque compound being actively used as a fighting and support position isn't going to rock the boat.
That's 180 degrees different from Tet, when the US had been making all these "hearts and minds" bullshit claims and talking about huge defeats inflicted on the VC and pacification, blah blah blah, then suddenly there are coordinated VC operations all up and down the country.
quote:
The mission must not be to "kill the enemy at any cost" but to "liberate Iraq", right?. |
All you guys who seem to think the US is engaged in killing at any cost haven't seen US forces engage an enemy to our full capability.
Last edited by MichaeltheGreat on 08-04-2004 at 22:00
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Ramo
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Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:35
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A flyer attributed to Sadr has called for an end to violence:
http://www.back-to-iraq.com/archives/000733.php
quote:
To Iman Mahdi, the officers of Hawza and the followers of Muqtada al-Sadr and all Muslims.
Previously, we had requested the exit of all American occupation forces from our country and the establishment of an Islamic country. But after the aggression on us by the American Zionist forces, we asked for the release of Sheikh Yacoubi and the restoration of the license four our newspaper. They (AF) confronted us with fire and an uncivilized reply. A lot of our Sunni and Shi’a sons and brothers have been martyred. We have been informed that a bad group of people interfered in your groups and are making conflicts between our groups. They tried to steal stuff from the government offices and banks of the country. They shut the doors of the universities and schools in order to badly affect the image of Islam and Muslims and the Al Mahdi Army.
We do not fear the American Army forces and the statements of Bremer and Kimmitt. After interventions from a number of religious leaders, Iraqi figures and heads of the tribes, we (the office of sayed Muqtada al-Sadr) have decided to stop the military confrontation and demonstrations; not to make trouble for the innocent people; not to invade anything which is prohibited by religion; and to catch the bad elements mentioned and get them to the Hawza offices.
We are still asking and requesting the release of all detained people and to reopen our newspaper (the al-Hawza newspaper). We will remain peacefully inside the mosque of Al Kufa after the prayer of Jumma on Friday (the 19th of Safar, year 1425 of the Islamic calendar). All other Believers and brothers in all Governorates should prepare themselves to do the same to prevent the enemies of Islam from interfering or entering our group.
Holy Najaf
Muqtada al-Sadr
17th of Safar year 1425 sealed with the seal of the office of the sayed, the martyr |
Though, the Shia insurrection may no longer be under his control.
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Apolyton Time is 00:35. |
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08-04-2004 19:50
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