13-05-2004 13:19									#271
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So basically your point is that once again England have the huge advantage of playing the qualifying round against serious oppostion while Aus & NZ get hardly any warmup match practice at all?

	13-05-2004 14:40									#272
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As the song says You spin me right round, baby, right round How lucky England are to face the prospect of serious squad injury before the QF? Will the draw stop the Kiwi media proclaiming the All Blacks finalists as they knock over minnow after minnow this time then?

Um – I never picked up your post on the last page – shame on me!

quote: That said, writing them off as not-a-threat is just plain silly - as with any of the major sides.

Unfortunately it seems to be becoming a national sport in NZ these days?

Of course we are not the same team without LJ or Wilko – but it’s still a team capable of beating any other in the world never the less. And depending on how radical he is with the squad they may surprise the cynical Kiwi media.

quote: I wouldn't be too surprised if the AB's didn't do too badly with him around for a season or two.

This is the same Henry who also had a far greater talent pool available to him with the Lions and screwed it up totally. I would highly recommend reading Jonno or Healey’s books before placing great hope in the great pattern obsessed dope.

quote: While rugby fans may be slightly less prone to violent reaction than their soccer counterparts it's still something worth considering when taking post-match penalties into account - particularly with the RSA back in the game so to speak - they most of all have a vested interest in seeing it stamped out.

*cough* Ali Williams *cough* Troy Flavell *cough* Rodney So'oialo . The NZ Union needs to clean it’s own house before criticising the Boks too much for any kind of violent conduct?

	13-05-2004 18:15									#273
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Really? Sometimes you spin so much it's a wonder you don't fall over. England: England South Africa Oceania 1 Americas 3 Repechage 2 Those 'mickey mouse' options have every possibility of proving to be Samoa, Tonga and Canada making this group the biggest physical challenge any team will face. Aussie: Australia Wales Oceania 2 Americas 2 Asia 1 On current rankings that is likely to be Japan, USA and Fiji I believe. So definitely a much easier group - Eddie won't even need to play the first team once to win it. Spin your way out of that?

I've said it before, I can only say it again. I think it's outrageous that Eddie has obviously bulldozed the IRB into rigging the draw to give the Wallabies an easy ride to the QFs.

	13-05-2004 18:35									#274
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I'm glad we see eye to eye.

So Gregan is enjoying his game now so much he is considering extending his Wallaby career to the next RWC - as is Larkham. Roff, younger than either of them, is not interested in doing so? Weird as it is at the next RWC the Wallabies could be the dads army then?

	13-05-2004 19:10									#275
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You guys are priceless.

	13-05-2004 20:17									#276
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It is certainly true that no value can be placed upon us.

	13-05-2004 22:18									#278
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Spin your way out of that?

I don't think it will be much of a problem for him.

	14-05-2004 05:10									#279
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I'm glad we see eye to eye.

I can only reiterate - Eddie's bastardry in making life difficult for teams like England, who need all the help they can get, is shameful.

quote: So Gregan is enjoying his game now so much he is considering extending his Wallaby career to the next RWC - as is Larkham. Roff, younger than either of them, is not interested in doing so? Weird as it is at the next RWC the Wallabies could be the dads army then?

Gregan and Larkham talk of playing on till the next RWC. Whether it happens is another matter. Gregan, I suspect, has the better chance, particularly if he gives up the Wallaby captaincy. Larkham's arms are now held together with sticky tape. I don't know that his body will last. Still, even if they both make it to the RWC, and we are Dads Army, we will have ready-made replacements. In other words, having won the RWC, we won't immediately crash to third best team in our hemisphere.

Rugby has never preoccupied Joe Roff. In a sense, he's a bit of a throwback. He wants to retire with a S12 trophy and a win over England. Obviously he shall have his wish.

	14-05-2004 05:14									#280
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin I don't think it will be much of a problem for him.

I was watching a doco on musicologists last night. Beethoven patently obviously plagiarised French composers of the late 18th century. Why aren't you doing something about this!

	14-05-2004 05:15									#281
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quote: Originally posted by Havak It is certainly true that no value can be placed upon us.

The last three years haven't been a total waste. I've educated him in rugby and the art of the one-liner.

	14-05-2004 12:06									#282
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quote: Originally posted by Havak How lucky England are to face the prospect of serious squad injury before the QF?

Um? In all seriousness for a moment is this actually valid? ie: Are the upper echelon teams at more risk of suffering injury in playing other upper echelon teams as opposed to minnows?

I guess it begs the question then - How many teams suffered serious injury playing against England?

quote: Will the draw stop the Kiwi media proclaiming the All Blacks finalists as they knock over minnow after minnow this time then?

Well, as I may have pointed out a post or few ago - It isn't our fault we were put into a pool without serious opposition is it?

quote: Unfortunately it seems to be becoming a national sport in NZ these days?

I don't have a terribly high opinion of the press in general - NZ or otherwise.
Headlines are always blown out of proportion and too many people fail to go through the actual 'factual' content anywhere near carefully enough.
They tended to underestimate English capabilities in the year leading up to the WC (as, to be fair, did I for one) to their own demise.
Doing so again after losing the WC would be just plain silly but they are journalists after all ...

quote: This is the same Henry who also had a far greater talent pool available to him with the Lions and screwed it up totally. I would highly recommend reading Jonno or Healey’s books before placing great hope in the great pattern obsessed dope.

It's more a case of him not being able to do too much harm more than anything else - he has one idea, players have another, ergo they should meet in the middle somewhere in some sort of synthesis?
That's the way most sensible coaches should be working.
Of course, I don't know that much about the guy - if he were a kilted claymore-wielding Scottish nutcase I might be a little more concerned.

Incidentally you really should be on commission you know.
The sheer effort you've put into trying to flog off copies of Jonno's book deserves reward for persistence. :doitnow:
I for one would be most happy to testify to this effect.

And just in case you thought you'd slip one past - No I don't agree that the Lions constitute a greater pool of talent.
Perhaps you meant a pool of something else?

quote: *cough* Ali Williams *cough* Troy Flavell *cough* Rodney So'oialo . The NZ Union needs to clean it’s own house before criticising the Boks too much for any kind of violent conduct?

Well, this actually originated with regards to the racism issue thereby provoking a physical response rather than excessively physical play but it's a fair enough point - Ali I haven't seen too much of so I wouldn't like to condemn out of hand, Flavell I've both seen enough of and heard enough about to avoid him like the plague unless I had a 10' baseball bat - no argument from me about him.
Interesting though how So'oialo is suddenly a Kiwi if there's something negative about him. Are you sure you don't have Australian blood in you?

	14-05-2004 13:23									#283
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quote: I don't think it will be much of a problem for him.

He is no so much spinning right now as battering me with the ‘sarcasm stick’

quote: Eddie's bastardry in making life difficult for teams like England, who need all the help they can get, is shameful.

Well quite. Uppity colonials being rude to the mother country just isn’t cricket. Then again just look at how those colonials play cricket.

Wilko will not feature in an England shirt until November – and Grayson has announced his England retirement with immediate effect. I think Hodgson could be injured again so this may mean Ollie Barkley will be the stand off for the summer tour. To say this is an acid test for him is a huge understatement – and he still hasn’t really convinced me he is England quality.

In better news Tigers has re-signed the England U-19 Stand off Ross Broadfoot. We had been concerned he would move on because of lack of first XV time. I suspect with this move he will get his chance in the big league next year (VD Westhuyzen seems intent on going to Japan for one year because he singed a contract – if Broadfoot does well he may not be able to return at all).

quote: In other words, having won the RWC, we won't immediately crash to third best team in our hemisphere.

May I respectfully remind you that only the self destruction of the Springboks prevents you from holding that ‘honour’ right now. Although I reckon the Pumas are pushing you for second spot anyway.

If the youngsters do turn over the Wallabies I can’t wait for the excuses.

quote: He wants to retire with a S12 trophy and a win over England. Obviously he shall have his wish.

He doesn’t play for Crusaders or France though does he?

quote: I guess it begs the question then - How many teams suffered serious injury playing against England?

Very few – we are very hard but (almost) fair.

For example Martin has never been cited post match for standing on the Kiwi fullbacks head.

quote: It isn't our fault we were put into a pool without serious opposition is it?

That’s what we want to ascertain. We ‘know’ from Finbar’s confessions that Eddie had a hand in it – but did the NZ Union as well?

quote: Doing so again after losing the WC would be just plain silly but they are journalists after all ...

Our own print media is fairly poor. What bother me with some of the antipodean comments is the way it gets reported on (IMO) more reputable sources like the BBC website. I wonder if they are picking it direct from the press conferences themselves – or re-reporting items from NZ printed articles.

Either way I think Finbar had a point – Mitch is clearly keeping his options open with a view to getting the poison chalice again?

quote: That's the way most sensible coaches should be working. Of course, I don't know that much about the guy - if he were a kilted claymore-wielding Scottish nutcase I might be a little more concerned.

Again I would say read the books (I will keep trying!) – Graham is very much an ‘in-charge’ coach.

As for Scots – I think Ian McGeechan (Lions coach 89-97) could have been a superb coach for the ABs. It is to our eternal regret that his Scotland move prevented him helming the 2001 party and lumbered us with the Pretender.

quote: And just in case you thought you'd slip one past - No I don't agree that the Lions constitute a greater pool of talent.

Well England on their own have a greater pool of talent. They might arguably not always convert that into on field success as well as the Kiwis. Cherry pick from the Celts and it can only be even better surely? If you disagree by all means tell me the last time the ABs overcame England?

quote: Are you sure you don't have Australian blood in you?

Now, now – there is no need to be so offensive!

Where did I call Rodney a Kiwi by the way? I said the NZ Union needs to clean house – and he falls under that Unions remit whether I agree with his border hopping or not.

Just call me a barrack room lawyer.

	14-05-2004 19:14									#284
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I despair! You two waffle on about rugby while Beethoven escapes scott free with his plagiarism!

And when the hell are Toulouse going to play Wasps? I'm getting tired of waiting!

	14-05-2004 19:39									#285
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23rd May. Dally's pallys due to run riot all over 'You-are-going-toulouse'.

	14-05-2004 19:48									#286
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Why the hell is it taking so long! Are les grenouilles rehearsing their victory speech or something!

And I'm disappointed to see you leaving the 18th century French composers - plagiarised by Beethoven - hanging out to dry! I'd've thought these sorts of issues were core East Midlands concerns!

	14-05-2004 19:51									#287
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Either way I think Finbar had a point – Mitch is clearly keeping his options open with a view to getting the poison chalice again?

He has been featured a couple of times in the crowd watching Chiefs matches. He has looked very calm and self-assured. Smug, even. Not just as a result of the Chiefs' success, methinks.

	14-05-2004 20:13									#288
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Obviously he shall have his wish.

You seem awfully confident that the Brumbies will win it this year. Don't you think it's going to be close in the final? Who knows, it might even be Chiefs v Crusaders.

	14-05-2004 20:40									#289
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quote: Originally posted by finbar I was watching a doco on musicologists last night. Beethoven patently obviously plagiarised French composers of the late 18th century. Why aren't you doing something about this!

It's too late!

	14-05-2004 20:41									#290
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon I guess it begs the question then - How many teams suffered serious injury playing against England?

Australia!

	15-05-2004 00:18									#291
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That's ludicrous.
We're going to have Ireland, France, Argentina and two poor lads going to get crushed, in the same pool in 2007. In the three last cups, these three teams have been opposed to one another quite consistently. They all belong in the top 8, and yet one will not make it, probably Argentina, though the French and Irish can be miserable.
If I were Argentinan, (finbar, did I do it right?) I'd probably try to finish second in the Pan-American tournament.

	15-05-2004 07:15									#292
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare If I were Argentinan, (finbar, did I do it right?)

Impeccable use of the subjunctive.

How much do I love our threads? Let me count the ways - Beethoven, the subjunctive, a paraphrase of Elizabeth Barrett Browning, and rugby, all on the same page.

	15-05-2004 07:24									#293
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin It's too late!

It's never too late! And stay away from Montpellier! If you put as much energy into defending the honour of your 18th Century composers as you did wreaking havoc in Montpellier, France would once again be the cultural centre of the universe!

	15-05-2004 07:26									#294
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia You seem awfully confident that the Brumbies will win it this year. Don't you think it's going to be close in the final? Who knows, it might even be Chiefs v Crusaders.

Bet you 10 Civ gold.

	15-05-2004 16:39									#295
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Well, I'm halfway there.

Crusaders 27 -d- Stormers 16

Crusaders solid, Stormers ran out of puff in a less than exhilarating match.

Brumbies 32 -d- Chiefs 17

Brumbies too much firepower, Chiefs brave in a very lively match.

	16-05-2004 00:04									#296
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Shame on Toulouse. Enough said.

	16-05-2004 01:06									#297
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quote: Brumbies too much firepower, Chiefs brave in a very lively match.

Yet you omit the fact that 3 Brumbies tries were from blatant poor refereeing. A lineout when neither the man nor the ball hit the ground. A knock-on pass after which Larkham's face said "Whoops, I wonder if he saw it..." and a lineout that didn't go five. Abysmal handling of the ruck area, and offsides not being called.

Worst game of the year, official wise. It got to the point where I was saying to myself "What infringment is Kaplan going to dream up next?"

	16-05-2004 05:57									#298
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare Shame on Toulouse. Enough said.

I had to track down the result through various websites. I agree.

	16-05-2004 06:15									#299
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quote: Originally posted by Frozzy A lineout when neither the man nor the ball hit the ground.

Sorry, I don't follow.

I think the knock-on forward pass was marginal. There was no camera angle that revealed anything either way. That aside, it was one of Kaplan's more extraordinary performances. Everyone seemed to be offside for most of the match.

EDIT. In other news, Matt Burke has been told by the Waratahs and Eddie Jones that his services are no longer required. He's contracted till December, but will seek an early release if an overseas opportunity presents itself. The ARU's policy is not to give early releases. OTOH, I don't know how many overseas opportunities will present themselves.

Matt Rogers has re-signed with the ARU. Thank goodness. All indications are that Lote Tuquiri will re-sign, too.

Scott Staniforth, very talented Waratahs' - and occasional Wallaby - winger, is off to London Irish. Shame. He's been a victim of injury at inopportune times and some perverse selection policies. He's big and strong, very quick, and knows where the try line is. He leaves as a very frustrated man. I don't blame him.

	17-05-2004 02:22									#300
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Bet you 10 Civ gold.

That the Brumbies will win the final? You're on.