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ravagon
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Australia
Sep 1999
time: 13:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Tamerlin
I don't have too much time this morning, this is a problem I have already talked about before. Some of the main problems IMO are lack of technical skill and tight game plans killing what remains of the famous "french flair" in order to reduce the chances of a loss. The stakes are so high the clubs are not playing with the intent to win but with the intent to not lose. 
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Is this just in your domestic matches or did it affect the French National team during the 6N as well?
It sounds more like a bit of a slump than anything else.
Not that NZ rugby knows anything about this from first-hand experience of course.
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As for the Mitchell quotes I didn't see him get anything right - he even thinks the team is in good hands with Graham Henry. |
Somehow I have a feeling that certain press elements took a little creative license with whatever-it-was that Mitchell actually said.
(a) England aren't the same team without Wilco or He-with-the-jaw-commonly-likened-to-a-lantern (I doubt you'd dispute that), and neither of them are going to be down here in your next touring side.
That said, writing them off as not-a-threat is just plain silly - as with any of the major sides.
(b) Henry, for his part, has a little more to work with than he did with Wales - some of their 6N performances aside.
I wouldn't be too surprised if the AB's didn't do too badly with him around for a season or two.
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I see much is being made of Tuiali'i's claim that his headbutt was a reaction to a racist slur.
Are players now going to be excused from any subsequent bad behaviour as long as they claim it was a reaction to "racism"? What a load of bollocks. |
In his defense there weren't too many voices that disputed his version of events. He was both carded during the game and suspended for three weeks thereafter. While claims of racial remarks may have mitigated his punishment he was hardly excused from it.
Players aren't even necessarily the big potential problem.
During the last Australian domestic soccer (One of the few sports in which WA is a highly able contender) season for example, there was on on-field 'incident' between one of the opposing players and the local crowd.
Now the player in question just happened to be of Serbian descent and many of the crowd elements were Croatian - possibly the worst possible combination, with regards to Western civilisation anyway.
Basically it got pretty ugly indeed and could've been a lot worse.
While rugby fans may be slightly less prone to violent reaction than their soccer counterparts it's still something worth considering when taking post-match penalties into account - particularly with the RSA back in the game so to speak - they most of all have a vested interest in seeing it stamped out.
Last edited by ravagon on 11-05-2004 at 12:36
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by finbar
Rules against racist taunts, a good thing IMHO, are quite quite different to using a racial taunt as a defence. The AFL here, with a lot of Aboriginal players, has handled the situation quite well. The taunter is penalised, but retaliation by the taunted is also penalised. |
How is it proven that a racist slur was actually uttered? What standard does the proof have to reach to be accepted?
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by finbar
Presumably it has to be heard (or overheard). But there have been cases in AFL where it hasn't been overheard, the recipient has complained and the instigator has admitted it when it could have been denied. In those cases it's an honesty thing dealing with a heat of the moment situation. And, in fact, it seems hardly to occur these days. There's been a lot of player education. |
Just as long as we don't have to endure endless ***-for-tat bickering over what may or may not have been said.
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ravagon
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Australia
Sep 1999
time: 13:35
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quote:
Originally posted by finbar
Wasn't this a classic case of the player being the problem? The player, of Serbian descent, offered a symbolic gesture to the crowd of Croatian descent that was culturally highly offensive to Croatians. |
Er, yes, quite.
I cleverly managed to leave out the part indicating that I was referring specifically to the act of a player retaliating for a slur - Tuiali'i being a case-in-point.
Whereas a player retaliating for an act might spark at most, generally speaking, an on-field fracas, the above act directed towards part of the opposing fan-base in the crowd might have led to any number of far worse off-field incidents - Bottles and other projectiles being thrown, actual riots, etc.
I shudder to think what might have happened if there had been a larger number of Croats in close proximity.
I don't think there's too much doubt that the crowd reaction was a little more than he'd intended, and, perhaps a little in his defense, other soccer players have, in principle, done worse, but then they haven't been so incredibly stupid as to incite centuries-old blood feuds.
I would've banned him from domestic competition permanently if I'd had the choice.
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:35
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quote:
Originally posted by ravagon
I don't think there's too much doubt that the crowd reaction was a little more than he'd intended, and, perhaps a little in his defense, other soccer players have, in principle, done worse, but then they haven't been so incredibly stupid as to incite centuries-old blood feuds.
I would've banned him from domestic competition permanently if I'd had the choice. |
I don't think there's anything to defend what he did. It was stupid, offensive and provocative. And, given Australian s***** crowds' propensity for culturally-based violence, very bloody dangerous.
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Caligastia
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It's not like the Boks are particularly dangerous these days...
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Apolyton Time is 00:35. |
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11-05-2004 05:47
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