14-12-2004 09:32									#241
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quote: Originally posted by Beta 320ad turn played con - QUESTION - how many mercs and catapults do you want me to bring back over?

I need to look up the support stats in Monarchy and Republic for two cities and get back to ya, but yes bring warriors to the mainland and bring me back good stuff, NM's and Longbowman.

Thanks

You can trade them one for one right now because if nothing else the sea wall needs to remain in place.....

	14-12-2004 23:02									#242
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Republic

1 per town (pop size 0-6)
3 per city (7-12)
4 per metro (13+)

Monarchy

2 per town
4 per city
8 per metro

I suggest you go Monarchy. Corruption will not be a big issue to start with. Whereas war weariness may be. And Monarchy - as per above - supports more units.

Yes - I am maintaining the seawall. And trying to get you as many galleys, and as much population as possible.

I will need to guage the timing on anarchy - as I want to continue to produce workers, galleys, and the occasional unit.

I am pop-rushing where it makes sense. And selling off city improvements is keeping the cash flow stabilized for now. It will soon start to slide.

QUESTION to both of you: the one difficult decision here is whether to take invention and use 80 or 120 gold on some archer upgrades. Or keep the gold to allow us to soak every last drop out of the cities we can. I am leaning towards the latter. In the end - it will be the mercs who take the brunt of the fighting.

	15-12-2004 00:06									#243
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Whats the difficulty level of this game?

ie, how many pops can I have before unhappiness?

Also there is the MP issue, I think you still get 2 MP's for happiness in monarchy but zero in republic correct?

	15-12-2004 02:35									#244
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Take the tech.
But dont upgrade anything.

Once CoD & Python see we have the tech, it will give them something more to panic about.

	15-12-2004 02:49									#245
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We can do that H_E but then it tougher to pop rush units because the sheild cost for a longbowman is obviously higher than an archer.

I believe that is what Beta is worried about.

And after we are down to two cities my only hope will be to do fourty turn research on one of the un-beaten techs paths and then become one of Latin Lover's B1tches. So money once Im stabilized on Pirate Monkey Island, should not be an issue.

There should be a breaking point hopwever where further pop rushing will be difficult and at that time I think we should get the tech

Last edited by conmcb25 on 15-12-2004 at 05:29

	15-12-2004 03:49									#246
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Hmmm.....OK

	17-12-2004 18:30									#247
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Whats the difficulty level of this game? ie, how many pops can I have before unhappiness? Also there is the MP issue, I think you still get 2 MP's for happiness in monarchy but zero in republic correct?

Monarch or regent. I can't recall. Therefore 2 pops.

And you are correct about the mp's.

	17-12-2004 18:59									#248
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330ad turn played

Payback. SS Mosquito, just built, set sails and sinks veteran CoD galley. That felt good.

con - your pirate navy has 4 galleys right now - and I should be able to produce another 3 or 4 before we have to pack up.

Sold a lot of now useless city improvements. They were costing us maintenance. We now have 253 gold - and are -18gpt. Abandoned the northern most city this turn - and took out some more infrastructure.

Another worker delivered to Monkey Island. And several more on their way. Also drafting our best rangers as well.

The Cod stack will probably come down the hills - so we may need to accelerate the dismantling. This is not an issue.

Acyually - I am enbjoying the logistical challenge in all of this. And seeting up a PIRATE NATION is always fun!!!



Here's the pic. Three rowdy cheers for the crew of SS Mosquito.

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	17-12-2004 19:43									#249
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Good work

I would say 6 galleys would be enough, thats going to be a lot of galleys to support for two towns.

Ill try and look at the unit numbers issue this weekend while you are at your folks house.

Thanks Beta

con

	21-12-2004 06:07									#250
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340ad turn played

The pillaging continues. No cities disbanded this turn. And one dammed tile - I took about 15 catapult shots at it and not one hit.

We will likely be pulling out of the two northern towns shortly - and PC the turn after.

The two SoD's are heading towards PC it looks like.

We are going to get some gold from a barb encampment down south. And we are still over 200 gold.

Another merc landed on The Island. I suspect I can get the capital to jump to Howler Monkey - the most northern of the two - when we pack up PC.

Looks like 6 galleys con. And sufficient pop to get your cities up to size 9. We may need to use some rushes for harbours and aqueducts.

And you are right - I checked the civilpaedia (sp) in the game - and Monrachy gives you 4 units per city (size 7) and allows 3 mp's. Republic gives you 0 free units, 0 mp's, and the one extra gold. I'm thinking Monarchy is the way to go.

Say to size 9 cities proucing an extra 20 gold in commerce.

4 free units per city is 8 gold. And what is the cost of happiness for the equivalent of 3 content citizens per town. And then the war weariness - where I suspect we will be the aggressor.

con - have you done a calc on this yet?

And btw -

We have 1 settler - will build Whale Song next turn. And PC is producing a settler.
6 workers - 3 more in the next two turns.
5 warriors
17 archers
20 catapults
4 galleys
40 Mercs

We are weak to Python, average to CoD and Tabemono, and strong to everyone else.

	21-12-2004 09:32									#251
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7 total tiles on Monkey Island

2 of which are cities.

Each has 3 MP's out of four that is supported.

thats 2 etra support

7-2-2 = 3.

3 gold per turn to make sure the entire shore is covered.

Plus 6 galleys is 9gpt.


Under republic that would be 6 units +5 units+ 6 galleys equals 17GPT.

20 total tiles worked assuming each city is size nine, each tile produces an extra commerce.

Thats plus 20

20 - (17-9) = 12GPT

But I doubt we can get to size 9 in Republic with out luxs and certainly not without markets so monarchy would be the way to go especially since corruption will be negligable with just two cities.

H_E, what am I missing in this analysis????

	21-12-2004 10:06									#252
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Unfortunately ... it is this stuff, that I know little about.

It's never an issue with my solo games (I'd give the game up well before I hit two cities)

I have never bothered to work it out.


Luxuries are your problem of course.
Cant trade with the other continent yet.
And I am still not totally convinced monkey island is connected by coast to our main continent.

	21-12-2004 16:21									#253
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I already have given up.

Now Im gonna have some fun for a while

Im still leaning towards monarchy. But I goot some time to figure that out.

	21-12-2004 20:37									#254
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con - that looks about right.

At the level we are playing, the first two citzens are content. 3 MP's will take us to 5. A temple will get us to 6. And a colisseum to 8.

Before the colisseum gets built though, we will need harbours and aqueducts. By then, I suspect we may have a sea connection with the others and can beg for luxuries.

So - I will bring over 11 units. What do you want con? All mercs. Some catapults would be nice to fend off any nosy naval vessels. Some archers for upgrading - probably not worth it. I would rather save you the cash for rebuilding once you get to monarchy. I am doing OK babalncing the treasury still - and expect to go into anarchy with at least 150 gold in the bank.

	22-12-2004 00:13									#255
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Well if all the NM;s are Elite bring em over.

If not then a few archers wont hurt.

Whats the archer upgrade cost?

Better yet if we could pop some longbowman before we bug out for good that would be nice.

Good summary on the building issue.

Assuming we become LL's b1tch and do the forty turn research, I would hope uping the lux slider would not be a major issue. So we maybe able to get to 7 or 8 pop without a colloseum.

Market should help ITR as well, although I dont know how much.

Good thing about harbors is you get two food and two commerce from each sea square (I believe) so thats a nice commerce bonus that can help you out on the lux slider.

con

	22-12-2004 00:16									#256
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Make sure to bring over any and all workers, Ill use em to pop rush before the gov't switch.

And a couple of cats would be fine as well.

Im still torn about giving away all those poo flingers we made

	22-12-2004 00:17									#257
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Can you indirect fire with galleys? I cant remember?

	22-12-2004 08:04									#258
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Can you indirect fire with galleys? I cant remember?

No.

As to longbows - yes - I can create a few. But it will cost gold.

con - also check your e-mail regarding the Grapes game. I need an answer on the GL.

	31-12-2004 21:39									#259
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350ad turn played - will post shortly.

	03-01-2005 03:37									#260
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350ad turn

The Great retreat continues.

Two cities abandoned this turn. More infrastructure dismanted. Primate Central will be abandoned next turn.

Staying one move ahead of the SoD's.

We will be going to anarchy either next turn or the turn after. Still have over 200 gold.

2 galleys, a settler, and a worker out next turn. The last build would be a rush built galley in Chilly Monkey, after upping the pop with a worker. I'm not sure this will be worth it - the extra turn of negative gpt and a worker for a 7th galley.

Built Whalesong this turn.

QUESTION: IS IT BETTER TO MAKE OUR LAST STAND AT WHALESONG - WITH A TOWN ON A HILL - KNOWING THE WALLS WILL BE DESTROYED QUICKLY, OR MOVE DOWN TO THE MOUNTAIN TO THE SOUTH. wITH NO TOWN.

Moved two workers over to the island - brought back a warrior or two.

And that's about it. Oh yes - a ranger took out the barb encampment on the east coast - for 25 gold.

And con - as you will only have a small number of num mercs, I will make sure you get all the super models.

Here's a pic of where we stand:

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	03-01-2005 05:44									#261
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Use Whalesong.
It will keep them guessing on exactly how many units we have.

Keep its pop at 1, and it will autoraze when they take it.
(I suggest making its worker just be a tax collector)

My big question...
Do we disband all the catapults ? Or let them capture them all in the final assault ?

	05-01-2005 02:46									#262
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360ad turn played

More retreating and more pillaging.

And, we abandoned the capital city this turn.

I had arranged for the jump to go to Howler Monkey - the northern city on the island. It would have been interesting to see what was to the south first. It may be useful to have a southern capital, and a city or two on the icefields.

Anyways - the capital jumped to Chimpanzee - a size 3 city. ???? Oh well - one more turn. When it does jump, I think we should rename it Pirate Central in honour of Primate Central. But in a few turns - so they (CoD and Python) do not get wind of our eventual plans. I am still worried they are going to come down the coast with a stack of galleys shortly.

Anyways - we now have 7 pop in the two island cities - 8 pop points either on the island or on their way (6 workers and 1 settler), and one more worker produced next turn. Should have been this turn - but I let a city fall into flames.

Contemplated going to anarchy this turn - again - but we are still above 200 gold - worker out next turn - and a last galley.

It will be interesting to see if CoD and Python continue their march south. I was doing a calculation to see how far south we could draw them - then use the remaining road network to go around and up the west side of the lake with the bulk of our forces. And just keep on marching north. Any thoughts?

As to H_E's question - I will what to see what a catapult is worth when you cash it in - 5 gold I think.

I'm tempted to hold onto them. We will get one counter-attacking shot before they hit - but that will be absorbed by their muskets for the most part. If we cash them in - we do it next turn - and switch to anarchy.

Another question - any value in saving the elite num mercs. When they get upgraded they will be demoted to veteran anyway. They may be more useful on the defence.

And one last question - do you see any merit in trying to negotiate a deal for the tundra at the bottom of the continent? I suspect not - as we would no doubt have to agree to peace and monitoring, etc etc. If I was them I would not go for it.

(now hopefully I will get the pic right. This is my fourth attempt. Time to clean out my pics folder.)

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Last edited by Beta on 05-01-2005 at 03:57

	05-01-2005 02:47									#263
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Us abondoning the capital city. A sad time.....

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Last edited by Beta on 05-01-2005 at 03:29

	05-01-2005 02:48									#264
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More botched pics.

Last edited by Beta on 05-01-2005 at 03:59

	06-01-2005 00:40									#265
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Just a thought

Should we make the stand sooner than later?

Right now we have barely enough infrastructure to support our army, the more we disband the worse it gets.

Evac what we intend to evac to Pirate Primate Island

Then put up a big fight, and then continue to slowly disband to keep drawing them south and delaying there demob.

Going north sounds fine as well as long as the evac to Pirate Primate Island is complete.

Cant risk galleys prior to that.

	06-01-2005 08:56									#266
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Depending of their stacks positions, it might be possible to bomb/attack one stack, and only allow the horses on the other stack to attack us.

I thought of that on the previous turn, but Beta played it before I could say something.
Plus it looks like the road network may not of allowed it anyway.

No big deal...

I'd rather keep going until we run out of cash.
Then go into anarchy and stay in there until our stack is destroyed.
Make our last stand in the nominated southern city with the hill.

However... my biggest fear, is that Python & COD stop the attack once we hit the tundra.

Thus leaving us with nothing to attack them (except mercs), and only tundra cities to support our huge army.


I am still unsure if I want to let them capture our catapults.
Perhaps thats why I am thinking of using our stack to manouver at least 1 bombing attack.
I am very tempted to disband our cats at our last stand. (or even now for the gpt savings)
It will make our death quicker, thus lessening the chance for great leaders for them, and ensure they get nothing from us.

	07-01-2005 08:48									#267
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H_E - I've been looking for the opportunity to swing in and hit the one stack - while staying at least one tile from the other. We may yet get our chance. I say we wait and see what develops. I don't think they will leave us with an army of our size - probably the 2nd or third largest in the world - sitting down in the tundra.

	07-01-2005 09:10									#268
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Any thoughts on my dash north idea???

	07-01-2005 10:20									#269
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Dunno... May drop a few mercs off using the galleys.
Pillage a bit.

I think we are better off just retreating.
Forcing them to attack us in a hill city will hurt them the most.

	07-01-2005 18:36									#270
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quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel Dunno... May drop a few mercs off using the galleys. Pillage a bit. I think we are better off just retreating. Forcing them to attack us in a hill city will hurt them the most.

I can live with that, and I can also live with dropping off a couple of elite mercs for piliaging oppurtunities.

I have been studying ladder tactics on and off for the past year for C3C ISDG reasons, and NM's are considered one of the better pilliagers out there, obviously because of 3 defense. Now granted they would have been piliaging from a hell of a lot sooner than we are contemplating but none the less they are good pilliagers.

We are going to lose those units sooner or later, losing them while destroying COD improvements and making them lose worker actions might not be a bad idea.

So I guess its your call Beta, if there is a possible opening maybe we should take it. I just wouldn't risk a lot of units doing it.