30-04-2004 19:23									#91
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"People barely know the guy."

That is exactly why a popular and know vice president shall be so important, someone like Hilary Clinton or even MCain(thought he is a republican). If he takes a vice president who is well known and popular(especially by swing voters) then can he still win.

	30-04-2004 19:25									#92
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quote: Originally posted by kolpo That is exactly why a popular and know vice president shall be so important, someone like Hilary Clinton... If he takes a vice president who is well known and popular(especially by swing voters) then can he still win.

I thought you said popular, not polarising.

	30-04-2004 19:26									#93
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quote: Originally posted by dojoboy The vast majority of Americans are doing pretty damn well.

I have to wonder who's living in an illusory world here. The Midwest has been absolutely hammered by the last recession, and has hemorraghed jobs. So much so that Bush stands a strong chance of losing a typical Republican stronghold like Ohio.

quote: Seems to have been an unpleasent consequence of the coronation the Democrats had for Kerry.

Nobody knew who any of the Dem candidates really were so it makes no difference.

quote: This seems to have been a plus for Bush because it allows him the time needed to define Kerry for the voters before Kerry can do so.

Read: Drag the level of discourse down to a new low that makes the '88 campaign look like a garden tea party. Then again, I don't expect anything less from carnivorous bloodsuckers who pull out all stops to maintain their grasp on power. Kerry needs to grow a set of nuts and start fighting back or he will become another Dukakis.

	30-04-2004 19:27									#94
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"I thought you said popular, not polarising."

Someone can be both popular and polarising, but I don't believe Hilary is so polarising. Howard Dean is what i call polarising not Hilary. Hilary Clinton can get the politican center if she wants it.

	30-04-2004 19:28									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Jac de Molay Read: Drag the level of discourse down to a new low that makes the '88 campaign look like a garden tea party.

Point being?

	30-04-2004 19:37									#96
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Point being?

We can count on Bush and cabal to use their usual tried-and-true tactics of character assassination to maintain their hold on power- I think its stated clearly enough.

They did it with McCain. They did it with Gore. This time, they will elevate it to an art form because it's the best and only chance they have.

	30-04-2004 19:49									#97
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quote: Originally posted by dojoboy Exactly! Six months ain't gonna change this by much. Plus, most Americans are not liberal. Gore won a majority of the vote in 2000 by 200,000 votes, which is not a mandate by any stretch. Bush won 30 states to Gore's 20. Thank God for the Electoral College. The idea that folks in California, with out the Electoral College, would decide the election over the wishes of Americans in a majority of states makes me shudder. The vast majority of Americans are doing pretty damn well. Iraq, like it or not, is an extension of the containment effort of radical Islamic Fundamentalism and to prevent a large portion of the world's oil supply from being controlled any longer by unstable leadership. Americans support this whole heartedly, maybe not most 18 - 22 year-olds, but they live in an illusory world.

The electoral college is ****! It should be popular vote all the way. I shudder to think that boofoo-ass backwoods states have more power to decide things with the electoral college.

If an entire state goes one way, automatically, all the votes for the losing candidate of that state DO NOT COUNT.

Sorry, but every vote should count. Not just those of the winning candidate in the state.

	30-04-2004 19:55									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Jac de Molay We can count on Bush and cabal to use their usual tried-and-true tactics of character assassination to maintain their hold on power

The outrage you exhibit leads me to believe that you think a) this started with the Bush admin and b) is solely the domain of the right. How quaint.

	30-04-2004 19:56									#99
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc The outrage you exhibit leads me to believe that you think a) this started with the Bush admin and b) is solely the domain of the right. How quaint.

I think, like me, he's just frustrated that the Democrats aren't as good at it as Karl Rove and his buddies.

	30-04-2004 19:57									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Jac de Molay We can count on Bush and cabal to use their usual tried-and-true tactics of character assassination to maintain their hold on power- I think its stated clearly enough. They did it with McCain. They did it with Gore. This time, they will elevate it to an art form because it's the best and only chance they have.

Boo frickin hoo! Anyone who didn't expect his campaign to get dirty from both sides was foolishly niave.

OTOH one has to wonder about a candidate who is known for his "Bring it on!" statement/attitude only to squeal like a stuck pig as soon as it gets hot and heavy. Great presidential timber.

	30-04-2004 19:57									#101
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Why?

	30-04-2004 19:58									#102
	Re: Re: Re: Re: John Kerry was the wrong choice... he sucks! Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris As if Bush wasn't a loser.

In case you didn't notice, Bush did win

	30-04-2004 20:13									#103
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quote: The outrage you exhibit leads me to believe that you think a) this started with the Bush admin

No, they've taken more than a few pages from the old Nixon playbook.

quote: b) is solely the domain of the right.

Never said it was. But the right, especially Bush and Co., have elevated it to an art form. That just doesn't apply to Kerry but to anyone considered remotely hostile to the Admin (eg Richard Clarke, Joseph Wilson, ...)

quote: Boo frickin hoo! Anyone who didn't expect his campaign to get dirty from both sides was foolishly niave.

I think Kerry has been relatively civil. He hasn't dragged around Bush's National Guard tenure too extensively, and he's stuck to the issues.

quote: OTOH one has to wonder about a candidate who is known for his "Bring it on!" statement/attitude only to squeal like a stuck pig as soon as it gets hot and heavy. Great presidential timber.

This is absolutely devoid of meaning.

	30-04-2004 20:25									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Jac de Molay I think Kerry has been relatively civil. He hasn't dragged around Bush's National Guard tenure too extensively, and he's stuck to the issues.

Perhaps, but his surrogates sure haven't been very civil. Terry Mcauliffe, Ted Kennedy and others have done nothing but bash Bush, calling him a deserter, implying he knew 9-11 before it happened etc... Heck, we've had the senator from NJ, Frank Lautenberg go on the senate floor with a picture of a chicken making fun of Cheney and others as being "chickenhawks".

	30-04-2004 20:59									#105
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quote: I think, like me, he's just frustrated that the Democrats aren't as good at it as Karl Rove and his buddies.

Indeed Sava. Clinton had it right, though. He set Carville off on the Republicans and Carville, even though he can be a wackjob, is almost just as good as Rover.

	30-04-2004 22:01									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Jac de Molay This is absolutely devoid of meaning.

If you are refering to the entirety of your post, then yes I agree. Not only devoid of meaning, but also insight and objectivity.

	30-04-2004 22:19									#107
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And the notion of Kerry "squealing like a pig" is chock ful' o' insight and objectivity, right?

I've formed my own opinions of the Bush attack machine based on a pattern pf four years of unscrupulous tactics that seek to demolish enemies and naysayers by any means necessary. Their 2004 campaign has been par for the course as far as I'm concerned.

They've invoked every rationale, from
"national security" to "executive privelege" to grab and keep power, strengthen the power of the executive sans accountability, and to impede the mechanisms of transparency. They invoked fear and patriotism at their convenience to attack dissent. If I'm devoid of insight and objectivity, so be it, but their record of blatant power-grabbing speaks for itself IMO.

	30-04-2004 22:42									#108
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A Demo paying 1000$ for an haircut.. could Bush ask for more?

	30-04-2004 22:49									#109
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John Kerry spent $1,000 for a haircut?

	30-04-2004 23:15									#110
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$1000 for the haircut.

$4000 each way in operating expenses for the gulf stream jet to fly the hair stylist to his location.

	30-04-2004 23:28									#111
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Kerry is making the election easy for Rove & Co.

With Ted Kennedy up front and center he will lose all the votes of those of us whom are over 45,We remember the dead intern,we remember the abetted rape.Kennedy is the albatross.

Kerry himself makes it so easy.With all his past Senate votes going in different directions.

I can see the RNC commercial coming that imitates the old drug campaign.The Egg in the frying pan."This is your brain on drugs."

A Flip-Flop rotating over a fire"This is America with John Kerry". It melts as the ad ends.

But hey,we do have good choices between two elitist Silverspooned Northeasterners.That really resonates here in the South.

	01-05-2004 00:23									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Jac de Molay And the notion of Kerry "squealing like a pig" is chock ful' o' insight and objectivity, right?

I apologize if this offended your sensibilities. Would whining like a little school girl fit the bill better?

	01-05-2004 00:26									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe $1000 for the haircut. $4000 each way in operating expenses for the gulf stream jet to fly the hair stylist to his location.

1. Coming out of his campaing stash, so what? It ain't tax money (he gave up matching funds, remeber?)

2. Bush has his stimulus plan, Kerry has his.

	01-05-2004 00:33									#114
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quote: Originally posted by GePap 1. Coming out of his campaing stash, so what? It ain't tax money (he gave up matching funds, remeber?)

Agreed, but I suppose we'll still likely hear the inevitable whine about how much money the Repubs have when this illustrates how Dem funds are put to use.

	01-05-2004 00:39									#115
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Did I just hear GePap defend a $9,000 haircut?

	01-05-2004 00:44									#116
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If the wife has the money, why shouldn't he pay $9,000. That is $9000 now in the economy, to create jobs.

Or are you some commie trying to deny people the luxuries of wealth

	01-05-2004 00:49									#117
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John is a commmie!

Didn't we have this haircut debate when Clinton got an expensive haircut?

	01-05-2004 00:54									#118
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Yeah, but that was using taxpayer money. Maybe that was an issue. This, since it's with his own campaing money, is far less of an issue. Maybe donors can complain, but otherwise...

	01-05-2004 01:14									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui John is a commmie! Didn't we have this haircut debate when Clinton got an expensive haircut?

I don't think so... that was back in, when, the 96 campaign? I don't think that Apolyton was even around then.

	01-05-2004 01:28									#120
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quote: If things proceed as they are, the dim-bulb Dem leaders are going to be very sorry they screwed Howard Dean.

That will be the epitaph of the Kerry camapaign. They took the battery of the Democratic revolution and ripped it out of the engine, threw it on the ground, and bashed it with a hammer.

Using political tricks, that as soon as Dean was finished , were found to be illegal by the FEC. Impeccable timing.