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Kaak
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Che: it seems like you keep responding to what you want me to say, instead of what i actually do.
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Albert Speer
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Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:36
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here's a query...
what about that peculiar American custom of inter-marriage? let's say you have a kid, chegitz. what will your child be? he'll have a long list of ethnicities until you got the the -American. or how about me? my mother's family is Lithuanian, Polish, German, and Russian. My father's is Lebanese, Egyptian, and Sudanese. if i married my last girlfriend, for example, whose mother is black and whose father is puerto rican but with the (as far as i know) non-spanish last name of Cospolich, what in god's name would our children be?
this whole idea of putting people into nice, neat, little boxes like African-American is the very anti-thesis of modern America with our concept of race and ethnicity is irrelevent. people are people. americans are americans.
american=mutt
Last edited by Albert Speer on 10-06-2004 at 19:39
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Lorizael
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The Cult Wins
Sep 2001
time: 00:36
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Alright Che, you've got something very large up your ass that needs to be removed. I'm going to say a few things here that you may disagree with. If, because you disagree with them, you call me a racist, I will report you to the moderators, because I won't stand for that kind of hate driven ****.
I call people whatever they want to be called, because I don't believe that I have any right to infringe upon anyone's identity. However, I still believe the term African-American, as well as all the other -American terms, to be foolish, and I'll tell you why.
I'm going to explore my identity for a bit. Now then, the accepted label for all people that have black/brown/dark skin - whatever, just not Arab or Indian - is African American. Alright then. An entire continent is ascribed to people that may or may not have any ties to that continent. Now this ascribing is done by politicians, mind you, because it's the PC thing to say, and politicians don't know what all of "them" people want to be called.
That said, I should be called a European American, and not white or caucasian, because it is consistent with that term. But no one would consider me to be European American, because I am primarily of Western European descent, and that term usually applies to those of Eastern European descent. Obviously, this term is innacurate.
But, for some strange reason, with those from Europe (and Asia as well) we choose to classify a little bit more intensely. Thus, you have Italian Americans and such. In that case, I should be called a Germano-Polish-Welsch-Czechoslovakian American, but no one would ever use such a term, because it is incredibly cumbersome.
Just as well, most African Americans should hold similar labels because they come from many different parts of Africa, and there are definitely some parts they would not have come from.
Odds are, however, they have no idea what their origin is. Rarely do most care enough to investigate that sort of thing. I've asked many of my black friends (God I hate saying that; I hate identifying them by their skin or their origin or what have you. They're just ****ing people.) where they come from in Africa, and they usually just laugh.
So I've yet to find an appropriate term for myself. Now you said that many Italian Americans wish to go back to Italy, and many African Americans wish to go back to Africa - if only to visit. But there are many people that would want to visit Italy and Africa, yet have absolutely no historical tie to those places at all.
I want to visit Italy. I am not an Italian American. I want to visit Africa, I am not an African American. What again should I be called?
Obviously I should be called whatever I wish to be called, but I cannot find a label for myself, or for any other group, for that matter, that is entirely consistent and innacurate. These labels do two things, and two things only.
They create artificial differences where there are none. We don't all have to be exactly the same, but what's the point in marking differences that don't matter? If a culture is truly different, you can recognize that.
But most African American culture is not based on the fact that several hundred years ago, the progenitors of that culture were forcibly removed from their continent. Religion is a prime example. No African American practices the various forms of animism and mysticism that were prevalent in Africa. Instead, they are mostly Christian, sometimes very strong Christians.
The other effect of labels is to give a group power. African Americans (rightly) feel that they do not have the power that the random majority of whites/caucasians/european americans/americans have, and they attempt to give themselves power by giving themselves a cohesive voice. Thus, they create a single identity through which they can act.
Unfortunately, their creation of a single identity detracts from the identity of America as a whole, or from humankind as a whole, and this weakens the power that we as an entire species possess. If we recognized everyone as a single thing, we would have ultimate power, and we could destroy the remnants of racism in this country and the world. But instead we sacrifice this chance at equality and freedom in order to remain politically correct. How very short-sighted.
I am just a part of this universe. I don't segregate with words.
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Albert Speer
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Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:36
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Lorizael speaks like a republican
and it can not be stressed enough how 'black culture' was born 400 hundred years ago and grew in america far seperated from africa. that there is an american culture seperate from english can not be doubted but there are similiarities because americans weren't forced to disavow all old ties to england and were able to have continued contact with england. Blacks had no such luxuries and were forced to create a new culture of their own here in America.
granted, during the 20th century, particularily post-Garvy, there has been a small movement of Blacks attempting to re-connect with Africa but this is an incredibly small movement that hasn't re-connected much. they may study african art, culture, and music and create organizations with high flung named like "African Liberation Association" or god knows what but they remain an outlier group of the black consciousness.
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Albert Speer
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Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:36
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i think the best arguement against this hyphenation is what happens for mixed race people?
i would hope people who are in favour of hyphenation hope we have a society reminiscent of MLK's dream where people love each other no matter their race... hyphenation is an idea that does not work in MLK's dream.
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Last Conformist
Why should someone born and bread in America identify as Italian? |
They don't identify as Italian. They identify as Italian-American.
Last edited by chegitz guevara on 10-06-2004 at 23:22
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Albert Speer
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Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:36
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chegitz does not want Martin Luther King's dream to come true
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Lorizael
I call people whatever they want to be called, because I don't believe that I have any right to infringe upon anyone's identity. |
Then why don't you just let it go with that? What is so ****ing hard with respecting peoples' self-identity?
quote:
However, I still believe the term African-American, as well as all the other -American terms, to be foolish, and I'll tell you why. |
I don't really care.
quote:
Unfortunately, their creation of a single identity detracts from the identity of America as a whole, |
This is the essence of your objection. What it comes down to is, opressed groups are always belamed for their oppression. "African-Americans are treated differently because they call themselves a African-American." Okay, and why were they treated differently before the 1980s? Do you think racism just vanished?
In part, the call for the abolition of various hyphen-Americans is a call for the abolition of those groups. There should be no African-Americans. There should be no Irish-Americans. We should all watch the same tv shows, eat the same food, dress the same way, and listen to the same music. People should feel no connection to anywhere but the United States. People should feel no connection to others with similar cultural backrounds.
Why can't you look upon our differences as a strength, that what makes America great is that there are so many different kinds of Americans?
What if we don't want to be like you? What if we think your culture sucks? That you're boring? Why can't you respect our right to be different? Why does our difference scare you? Why does it offend you? Why should we be forced to be like you in order for you to respect us? Why do you need to make us just like you? Why do you need to ethnically cleanse us?
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Albert Speer
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Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:36
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chegitz, what if you and bunnygrl had a child? what would he be in this hyphenation world? or even more extreme, what would my child in my example be called?
it's not about becoming white. it's about transcending race.
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Albert Speer
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Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:36
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chegitz, i'll repost this in response to your saying that getting rid of African-American is a destruction of culture.
quote:
and it can not be stressed enough how 'black culture' was born 400 hundred years ago and grew in america far seperated from africa. that there is an american culture seperate from english can not be doubted but there are similiarities because americans weren't forced to disavow all old ties to england and were able to have continued contact with england. Blacks had no such luxuries and were forced to create a new culture of their own here in America.
granted, during the 20th century, particularily post-Garvy, there has been a small movement of Blacks attempting to re-connect with Africa but this is an incredibly small movement that hasn't re-connected much. they may study african art, culture, and music and create organizations with high flung named like "African Liberation Association" or god knows what but they remain an outlier group of the black consciousness. |
Black is a different culture than African. It was born when the Portuguese ripped it from its African mother during the brutal diaspora/slavery. Black is a purely American ethnicity, seperate from the cultures of Africa.
The phrase Black Americans or Blacks represents Black culture as distinct from Africa (and reminds people that Blacks were torn from Africa) better than African-American does which has jolly conuntations of immigration and a long-standing connection with the continent. i wouldnt think that you, chegitz, would be in favour of this new subtle oppression and renunciation of a horrible past that goes by the name African-American
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Albert Speer
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Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:36
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and what would your biological children be called?
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Last Conformist
Well, putting in an "Italian" in one's self-designation certainly sounds like one identify with Italy. But, if I'm to believe you, Italian-Americans do not consider themselves any more connected to Italy than do, say, Hiberno-Americans? |
No, Italian-Americans do feel a connection to Italy, some stronger than others. But we aren't Italians. We're Americans of Italian decent. It's just a hell of a lot easier writing Italian-American than Americans whose ancestors come from Italy and who still feel a connection to that country. Why is it so hard to understand feeling a connection to the land of your ancestors and a shared connection with others who have similar backgrounds?
In the phrase, Italian-American, the important part is American. We are Americans. But we're a little different from other Americans. We like those differences. There's nothing wrong with those differences. But some people take great offense to us not wanting to be REAL(tm)-Americans, what ever the **** that is. I thought I was a real American. I guess not.
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Albert Speer
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Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:36
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chegitz:
quote:
Whatever they ask to be called, I'd hope. Unfortunately, they will also probably be called niggers. |
nah... i mean some black people would call them niggas but some (stupid) black people would call them crackers though.
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Albert Speer
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Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:36
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and chegitz, African-American doesnt seem like a glossing over of the past to you? There is no such thing as an African-American identity. There is an African (really a million cultures) identity and a seperate Black identity. African-American is some bullshit that concocts a false cheerful union between the two.
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10-06-2004 04:18
Do you think it is ridiculous to call a horse, a horse?
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