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GeoModder
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The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:37
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Look what I found in my mailbox:
quote:
>From: Linfrew@aol.com
>To: marcin777@hotmail.com, GeoModder@hotmail.com
>Subject: ACDG3 - New Sparta proposal
>Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 21:22:25 EST
>
>has been posted in the Embassy:
>
> **************************************************
****************************
>*************
>
>To: The Data Angels
>
>A more direct proposal:
>
>The Data Angels are currently researching Doctrine:Flexibility and will have
>it in 2-3 years
>
>The Spartan Federation will send - this turn, pre-accepted - to the Data
>Angels the technologies of:
>
>
>Social Psych
>Doctrine Mobility
>Doctrine Flexibility (with the trade restriction below)In consideration for
>which, the Data Angels undertake:
>
>
>to change their research to Doctrine:Loyalty, and send it to us the year they
>research it
>not to build the Command Nexus
>not to trade Doc:Loyalty or Doc: Flexibility to third parties until Sparta
>has completed the Command NexusWe recognoze that asking the Data Angels to
>forswear for a year or two your championing of the "free flow of information" might
>be "painful" and that is why we are prepared to offer this 3 for 1 tech
>exchange that will leave both our factions immeasurably better off than otherwise.
>
>We are interested in your response
>
>Lt.Col Googlie
>
> **************************************************
****************************
>***************
>
>If there is no interest, can someone let me know ASAP, and I'll send the turn
>on
>
>If there is interest, but you need more time, let me know and I'll ask the
>mods for another 24 hours
>
>Googlie
>
>
>
>
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I took the liberty of asking him to request a 24 hour delay in forwarding the turn.
At first look, we could easily keep our promise to the Gaians of forwarding Doc:Flex to them when we would have normally finished it (but of course the Gaians have given nothing to us), for I suspect the Spartans will go for Command Nexus asap to take it away from under Yangs' nose.
So, the gain for us is 3 techs, and the Spartans will have commando battle units.
't Looks like the Angels are being courted by two factions at the same time. 
It's getting really complicated now. 
Do we accept this 3 for 1 deal, and blow out of the airlock our tech trade deal with the Gaians?
Or do we simply give Doc:Flex to them later on when we are 'allowed' to sooth their annoyance at this (or trade it for another tech, even lower in value).
Also, if we receive those 3 techs from the Spartans, will Doc:Loy be available to us for further researching it?
It looks clear to me that if we don't agree to this, the Spartans will probably probe Yang 'till they have Doc:Loy, but at this moment are still on good terms with the Hive and prefer to keep it that way for a while.
I think it is in our interest to accept the Spartan deal, and offer Doc:Flex to the Gaians at around the year (2151 IIRC) we would normally have researched it (this must be a condition of ours then on the Spartans).
Thoughts? We got 24 hours. 
Last edited by GeoModder on 10-11-2004 at 07:57
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mart7x5
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I agree on the condition, that Doc:Flexibility can be traded to Gaians on 2151. We may tell Spartans that we have to honour this agreement with Gaians. They are Spartans after all - people of honor, so they should understand it.
Also, just a remark - we could give Doc:Mobility to Gaians also so they get yet another tech, but apparently Spartans will not favor it. Do they have Doc:Mobility now?
So my vote is yes to Spartan proposal if they agree for releasing Doc: Flexibility to Gaians on 2151.
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mart7x5
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There is a significant detoriration of Gaian - Spartan relations. I think that as for us, getting Command Nexus by Spartans is kinda acceptable, but maybe Gaians were intending to build it. So now they do not like this idea of Spartans getting it. But if Hive is doing it, they should probably fail anyway. Thus I think it may be better if Spartans get Command Nexus. I think of something like that
quote:
The Spartan Federation,
The proposal of exchange the technologies as you proposed:
Social Psych
Doctrine Mobility
Doctrine Flexibility
for acquired:
Doctrine Loyality,
which will allow the Spartan Federation to build Command Nexus is acceptable with one change to the restrictions. Data Angels have currently an agreement pertaining to releasing of Doctrine Flexibility to Gaians. We would like to honour this agreement and hope that the Spartan Federation will understand it. Thus we would change the restriction pertaining to Doctrine: Flexibility, that it may be released to Gaian Union on 2151. The other restriction will stay unchanged - Doctrine Loyality will not be traded under any condition to any other third party until the Spartan Federation succesfully builds The Command Nexus Secret Project.
If Spartan Federation agree for the releasing of Doctrine: Flexibility to Gaians on MY 2151, then we accept the proposal.
Sincerely,
IT Mart
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mart7x5
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We should post a reply as soon as possible, so Spartans will not have to delay that long.
The message above will unfortunatelly release some facts to Spartans, about Doc Mobility - Flexibility switch between us and Gaians. I hope it will not make any real problems.
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mart7x5
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It is even more complicated than I thought. So Gaians in fact admit that they acquired Doctrine Loyality from Hive. Now everything is clear - why there is disagreement between Gaians and Spartans. I guess Spartans do not know that Gaians have Doc. Loyality. Gaians probably want to build Command Nexus before Yang completes it. So now:
1. We probably have to keep our mouth shut or maybe tell Gaians that they should clear this situation with Spartans - who builds Command Nexus.
2. So should we inform Gaians about Spartan offer?
3. If Gaians clear situation with Spartans we probably loose this exchange: 3 for 1.
4. If we make it secret and let Spartans complete this offer we may make both Gaians and Spartans our enemy for kinda cheating them. They can feel it this way.
What should we do? Seems extremely difficult situation.
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mart7x5
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In this case I propose the following statement to Spartan Federation:
quote:
The Spartan Federation,
Our current research status allows for finalizing the agreement you propose also next turn. We do not expect to complete a new technology in the next turn. Thus we can discuss it further without need to agree upon it in the MY 2146 in order not to loose its benefits. There are important issues within our faction, which cannot be decided that fast.
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GeoModder
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The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:37
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Again a mail in my inbox, it's off the table appearantly. First text is my response for the turn delay request, Googlie's latest response and finally my response on that.
quote:
> I take a liberty here, but on my behalf I ask to request a 24 hour delay in
>
> the Spartans forwarding the turn. I cannot promise anything atm tho, but it
> is a very generous proposal.
>
> Geo
From: Linfrew@aol.com
To: geomodder@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: ACDG3 - New Sparta proposal
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 22:18:53 EST
Well, a colleague pointed out a fatal flaw in my proposal - The Data Angels
do not yet possess Doc Mobility, so you cannot be researching Doc Flex (so
there would be no reason to send Doc Flex in the package. Or if we do, as a
gesture of friendship, we would want a longer embargo period before it found its
way to the Gaian Union. It would gall us exceedingly were the net result of
their intransigence be that they just had to wait a couple of years for the deal
that they refused us)
(It would be helpful if other leaders were as open as we are about what we
are researching - deals could be put together without all the guessing that goes
on - either that or we need to get our probe foils into the right oceans and
forget about the AI for a decade or so)
From Geo:
Whatever deal we would have agreed upon, the embargo wishes of the Junta would have been respected to the letter, if not to the spirit. It is simply too easy finding out which faction has ones own techs, so there is no way cheating on it.
Does this means that the Spartan proposal is off the table completely? Whether or not with help of the Spartans, the Data Angels WILL acquire all the mentioned technologies in the near future. It is simply a matter of trading with the right partner. This can be either the Spartans or the Gaians, or both.
In case the Junta still wishes to acquire Doc:Loy on a more 'conventional' way, it seems we are the only faction who is able to help you out then.
Regarding being open about research. The Junta has mentioned some technologies it possesses, certainly not all of them. However it has never mentioned (as far as I recall) which technology it was researching. We feel that the Angels have been open and willing enough to accommodate Spartan research plans on two occasions now, despite hasty proposals and appearant quick redrawals of those proposals for some reason or the other. It looks more like the Data Angels are considered a sort of last ditch attempt to achieve the Junta's means when negotiations with the High Council fail.
Regards,
IT GeoModder
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mart7x5
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I think that Doc Mobility and Social Psych were intended to be given in order to ensure us to be able to switch to Doc: Loyality. Both are prerequisite
I think that entering the deal with Spartans in order to allow them build Command Nexus and knowing that Gaians probably want to make it too may stir the situation. Both may have complaints later.
It seems they will not be giving Doc Flexibility to us. The offer was hasty.
So as I understand, should I post the message about possibility of continuing the talks in the next turn? That short one? Geo, if you wish, just copy it and paste it to Spartan Forum with your name or mine. I have to leave for like 1-2 hours.
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mart7x5
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Hercules and Flameflash, see the Technology intelligence thread. There is maybe unfortunate possibility that Morganities will build PEG. They got Progenitor Psych in 2145.
I think of making changes to the recent Doc:Flex agreement. If Morganities get PEG, that will be really disadvantage to other factions.
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mart7x5
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I think it would be good not to let Spartans wait much longer. I would like to forward the message below. In the meantime we will clear the situation with the Command Nexus with the Gaians.
quote:
To Spartan Federation,
Our current research status allows for finalizing the agreement you propose also next turn without any disadvantage. We do not expect to complete a new technology in the next turn. Thus we can discuss it further without need to agree upon it in the MY 2146 in order not to loose its benefits. There are important issues, which will require from us further discussion.
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mart7x5
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And to Gaians:
quote:
To Gaian Union,
In one of the recent diplomatic exchanges the Gaian Union informed the Data Angels about acquiring Doctrine: Loyality from Human Hive. In this regard we would like to inquire if the Gaian Union wishes to complete the Secret Project The Command Nexus? Clarification of this issue appears to be of the most importance at the present time.
....
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GeoModder
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The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:37
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Fresh from the press news from the Gaians:
quote:
Spartans contacted us before 60 hours, offering us Social Psych, if we agree to redirect our efforts and transmit them the results. However, the technology they requested was useless to us, as we do not have need for every military technology they might want to. Moreover, they wanted our agreement on not to build any SPs that may be enabled to be built by getting that tech, or more correctly SPs which lie in techs for whom the technology they requested is prerequisite. On top of that, they claimed value for us in getting this worthless technology without applications is in abbility to trade it further - but they already proclaimed that technology is considered common knowledge and as such we would need to give half of value received through trade to them - which is unacceptable. We rejected the deal and gave them a counterproposal, with a number of alternatives, mostly technologies, credits or commlinks to give us in return. They rejected and claimed we wont get anything. We said we won't agree unless they offer an incentive (this was around 30 hours before). They tried to explain that having an extra tech is good (even if it is useless), warned us of Yang forces that are going to overrun us, then sent a member of their ranks to threat us and insult us and then explain that 'proMorgan wing is gaining power, yaddayaddayadda'. They were quite blatant: "Sparta will not waste technologies and energy credits by giving them to Gaian Union - agree to the deal, blad, blah".
About 12 hours before their deadline, they presented us with quickly scribbled plan of Fusion in MY 2160. As tempting as it may seem, involving cooperation of us, you and them to get Fusion to oppose Morgan, it was a fake. Spartans were in position to build almost all SPs except Datalinks + they would msot likely research Fusion - question is if they would share it back with us. They did not mention sharing all technologies between each other, meaning - 'you research PolySoft as prereq and stick with it, we research IntInteg and stick with it, getting CDF'. We told them we will agree to this if they accept to add an incentive - we never seen the response - they have closed the diplomacy forum for us (what shocked us was that it was Googlie's work) , without notifying us or asking for our consent - quite foul action  . They notified us about severing communications later - we initially thought forum was down and voiced support for their plea for extension in hope to see their answer - they notified us that they intentionally closed the forum.
I don't believe it is sign of war, only attempt to scare us, since Spartans would show utter dumbness in doing so - without mutual cooperation we will fail against others. Luckly, our military production increases from turn to turn for some time already. Some of Spartan key members already did an exact same thing in previous ACDG, shamelessly betraying PEACE and ensuring victory for Hive-Drones - I hope they learn on their mistakes. We advise you not to base your diplomacy with Spartans on a forum administered by Googlie or other Spartans in order to avoid this situation.
Also, since Spartans show that they are shameless in their diplomatic dealings, I can propose to High Council violating their embargo on trading Doctrine: Mobility (which they recently requested to be prolonged by a year) and transmit Mobility this very turn to you. We would also appreciate much if you would inform us if Spartans tried to pit you against us. |
And a bit later:
quote:
Ah yes, Spartans have reopened embassy, as we predicted - they are attempting to influence us that we better accept the deal without any incentives. |
Both posts by Illu.
I will respond with an acknowledgement of seeing the message.
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10-11-2004 05:35
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