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mart7x5
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Posted. Now only wait for their answer
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mart7x5
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There is answer from Gaians. It appears that we may be very close to an agreement. This is from Illuminatus:
quote:
To answer your points: 1. Sparta refused to add any incentives when we asked them. They explicitly said they won't add anything. Currently we are looking in the matter of relations, since it seems that something drastically has changed in Spartan faction. However, Spartans were ready to offer you three technologies - we see an opportunity to be examined here. Since time is not urgent yet, we must examine it. We posses both Social Psych and Doctrine: Mobility and we can give both of this technologies to you. We would ask you to try and modify deal Spartans presented to you from Social Psych, Doctrine: Mobility and Doctrine: Flexiblity for Doctrine: Loyalty and attempt to agree to Ethical Calculus and Doctrine: Flexibility for Doctrine: Loyalty - we can give you Social Psych and Doctrine: Mobility. Since you can always return to original deal, there is no harm in attempting to do this - and if you can squeeze out Ethical Calculus, it would be a great boon.
2. For the time being do not reveal our possesion of technology to Sparta - we will reveal themselves the fact when needed. Although you can assure them that you won't trade Doctrine: Loyalty to us ever wink.gif. Seems that they are reviewing their policy towards us, so we will reveal this fact to them later. We are also capable of building CN within one year, but were willing to forfeit it to Spartans if we (you and us) can obtain Calculus and Flexibility. And as long as they think Loyalty can be built only with redirection of your technologies, they will be more willing to give you more - so be careful with revealing this fact. My advice would be to reveal this only when deal has been sealed.
3. We will be in dire need of Ethical Calculus soon, and you know how Ethical Calculus is important for this. Although we don't need it for another 4 or 5 years, it will be needed for us. We won't hide the fact that we will use it to popboom - creating specialists in all bases and boosting our research. However we are well aware of threat Morgan has become, and if you can deny them that project, we wish you luck. PEG will do much good for your faction, and as Spartans are momentum faction and we rely on specialists and cannot run FM, you will do much good with it. However, we plead you to explore any possibility you have to try and persuade Spartans to give you Ethical Calculus in the deal - remember we will be glad to provide you with Social Psych and Doctrine: Mobility so you can ask them to replace this techs with Calculus. Calculus is very important for ours and your future, and it is our priority to get it.
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I will prepare a summary soon. I have some idea how all this might work
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mart7x5
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It seems for me, that Gaians are not able to come to a deal with Spartans. What I have in mind is the following:
To Gaians:
quote:
1. Gaians transfer pre-accepted
- Doctrine: Mobility
- Doctrine: Loyality
to Data Angels in year 2148
2. Data Angels exchange:
- Doctrine: Loyality
for:
- Doctrine: Flexibility
- Ethical Calculus
which will be effective in the year 2149
3. Data Angels transfer:
- Doctrine: Flexibility
- Ethical Calculus
to Gaian Union in the year 2153 or earlier. Spartans will be given a condition, that this trade with them can go only if they will not embargo both techs beyond 2153, effectively Gaian Union will receive both techs in 2154 or earlier. Both Doctrine: Flexibility and Ethical Calculus are very valuable and Spartans realize it very well.
4. Very crucial point for us - data Angels also:
If Spartan Federation agrees to trade both Doctrine: Flexibility and Ethical Calculus to Data Angels and forward it to other factions no later than 2153, then Gaian Union forfeits its right to build Command Nexus and allows Spartan Federation to complete this Secret Project.
It is needed for Data Angels to protect our credibility and also good relations with Spartan Federation. We also think that guarantee to Spartan Federation of their completion of Command Nexus may be crucial in obtaining both Doctrine: Flexibility and Ethical Calculus and possibility to forward it to Gaian Union in or before 2153. If we guarantee Command Nexus to Spartans, we will not mention Gaian ability to build it too, but we wish to have your guarantee in return. Data Angels honour is at stake here. Please understand this.
5. We would be interested in exchanging:
- Social Psych
for:
- Technology of choice
with the Gaian Union. We are open for discussion regarding this.
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To Spartan Federation:
quote:
Our current research agreement with the Gaian Union allows us to receive both Social Psych and Doctrine: Mobility from them. In this case we would like to propose the following changes to an agreement currently being discussed:
1. Data Angels will transfer to Spartan Federation:
- Doctrine Loyality
- A technology of choice (we can decide upon it)
in exchange for:
- Doctrine: Flexibility
- Ethical Calculus
2. Data Angels will allow Spartan Federation to complete Command Nexus. We guarantee that we will not attempt to complete this secret project. We will also not trade Doctrine Loyality to other factions before Spartan Federation builds Command Nexus.
3. Spartan Federation will not embargo both Doctrine: Flexibility and Ethical Calculus. Alternatively these technologies will not be embargoed beyond MY 2153.
We realize that both Doctrine: Flexibility and Ethical Calculus are very valuable technologies, but their exchange for Doctrine: Loyality and a second technology, plus building by Spartan Federation of Command Nexus appears to be in the balance.
We would like to stress, that obtaining from you Doctrine: Flexibility and Ethical Calculus and not having embargo on them or alternatively not having embargo beyond 2153 is of the most importance to Data Angels.
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mart7x5
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quote:
Originally posted by GeoModder
... in future we might better offer them a 'better then average return' on occasion. |
I agree completely. In addition to proposal to Spartans above, we may sweeten the trade with something more. What do you think? What candy we might throw in?
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mart7x5
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quote:
Originally posted by Hercules
I am getting impatient now for VW. |
It is almost instabuilt, see the 2141-2150 thread. I have now only a small issue.
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mart7x5
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I think maybe I will first post to Gaians this message:
quote:
To Gaian Union,
Considering your last message, we have come to the following offer. This will allow us also to take from Morgan Industries possibility to build PEG by them. This needs still to be agreed upon with Spartans, but we will conduct talks with them trying to reach agreement as soon as possible.
1. Gaians transfer in year 2148 (the next Gaian turn) pre-accepted
- Doctrine: Mobility
- Doctrine: Loyality
to Data Angels
2. Data Angels exchange with Spartan Federation:
- Doctrine: Loyality
for:
- Doctrine: Flexibility
- Ethical Calculus
which would be effective in the year 2149
3. Data Angels transfer:
- Doctrine: Flexibility
- Ethical Calculus
to Gaian Union in the year 2153 or earlier. Spartans will be given a condition, that this trade with them can go only if they will not embargo both techs beyond 2153, effectively Gaian Union will receive both techs in 2154 or earlier. Both Doctrine: Flexibility and Ethical Calculus are very valuable and Spartans realize it very well. We will try to do our best.
4. Very crucial point for us (Data Angels) also:
If Spartan Federation agrees to trade both Doctrine: Flexibility and Ethical Calculus to Data Angels and forward it to other factions no later than 2153, then Gaian Union forfeits its right to build Command Nexus and allows Spartan Federation to complete this Secret Project.
It is needed for Data Angels to protect our credibility and also good relations with Spartan Federation. We also think that guarantee to Spartan Federation of their completion of Command Nexus may be crucial in obtaining both Doctrine: Flexibility and Ethical Calculus and possibility to forward it to Gaian Union in or before 2153. If we guarantee Command Nexus to Spartans, we will not mention Gaian ability to build it, but we wish to have your guarantee in return. Data Angels honour is at stake here. Please understand this.
5. We would be interested in exchanging:
- Social Psych
for:
- Technology of choice
with the Gaian Union, as you have already proposed. We are open for further discussion regarding this. |
Last edited by mart7x5 on 14-11-2004 at 19:24
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mart7x5
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Posted. I will work on polishing the Spartan message. I think of adding some more explanations regarding value of the trade. Hopefully it will be accepted by them.
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mart7x5
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And this is rewritten a bit offer to Spartans:
quote:
To Spartan Federation,
Our current research agreement with the Gaian Union allows us to receive both Social Psych and Doctrine: Mobility from them. In fact we have an agreement with Gaian Union in progress, which we would like to complete. In this case we would like to propose the following changes to an agreement currently being discussed with the Spartan Federation:
1. Data Angels will transfer to Spartan Federation:
- Doctrine Loyality
- A technology of choice (we can decide upon it)
in exchange for:
- Doctrine: Flexibility
- Ethical Calculus
2. Data Angels will not interfere in Spartan Federation plans to complete Command Nexus. We guarantee that we will not attempt to complete this secret project. We will also not trade Doctrine Loyality to other factions before Spartan Federation builds Command Nexus.
3. Spartan Federation will not embargo both Doctrine: Flexibility and Ethical Calculus. Alternatively these technologies will not be embargoed beyond MY 2153.
We realize that both Doctrine: Flexibility and Ethical Calculus are very valuable technologies, but their exchange for Doctrine: Loyality and a second technology, plus our assuring of building by Spartan Federation of Command Nexus appears to be in the balance. However, if Spartan Federation members feel that this trade in the current proposed form is not satisfactory for you, we would like to discuss possible changes. Also, the second technology from Data Angels is not clearly indicated in this proposal and it should be decided by both our sides in order to sufficiently assess the value of this trade.
We would like to stress, that obtaining from you Doctrine: Flexibility and Ethical Calculus and not having embargo on them or alternatively not having embargo beyond 2153 is presently of the most importance to Data Angels. We hope, that Spartan Federation will recognize this offer as beneficial to you.
IT Mart
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Last edited by mart7x5 on 14-11-2004 at 22:45
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mart7x5
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An answer from Googlie:
quote:
To: Data Angels
The Junta has deliberated and considered your counter proposal.
The sticking point seems to be the length of any trade embargo, so here is a simplified offer:
****************************
The Data Angels will send Doctrine: Loyalty to the Spartan Federation in 2148*, no strings attached on either side
Same year, the Spartan Federation will send Doctrine: Flexibility to the Data Angels, no strings attached on either side
* assuming that this is the year you would research the technology
*********************************
This will let you execute your leapfrog with the Gaian Union without any constraints set by us - and if the Data Angels or the Gaian Union should happen to beat the Hive to the Command Nexus, that's OK too (at least this offer might persuade the Gaians that we had no "hidden agenda" whereby all along all we wanted was to build the CN - they professed not to have believed us when we insisted it was just an afterthought)
Lieutenant-Colonel Googlie
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mart7x5
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It appears that they will likely not release Ethical Calculus. And it is undertandable, both Loyality and Eth. Calculus lead to Intellectual Integrity and Citizen Defense Force. They will have both needed, us and Gaians only one! This kinda puts the deal on hold. Ethical Calculus was requested strongly by Gaians, I think Gaians will most probably refuse to release Loyality in this case.
Any other thoughts?
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mart7x5
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The main conflict is I think Ethical Calculus. Ok, then, I will inquire Spartans openly what would they want for Eth. Calc.. I will prepare a note. Any thoughts, as for what specifically they would need - a tech, an embargo, or else like CDF assurance?
---------
As far as I know Gaians started Ecological Engineering
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mart7x5
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How about this question:
quote:
To Spartan Federation,
We thank you for the counterproposal. It is currently being discussed.
We would like to ask specifically about Ethical Calculus. Is it possible for Spartan Federation to exchange it with Data Angels. What Spartans would consider a fair price or conditions for this technology at this moment?
...
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I thought about some more elaboration on possible trade from us, but maybe let them to tell first. Anyway, do we have anything more than Progenitor Psych? I think not.
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mart7x5
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An answer from Illuminatus:
quote:
Sorry for commenting on this only now, however, if you need guarantee, you can freely offer guarantee in our name (we decided not to build it, indeed we would have finished it next turn it if we wanted to), and if you need more incentive, you can add guarantee we won't build CDF either (we also declined from attempting to build it).
Also, if there is any possibility for Doctrine: Flexibility to be transmitted to us as early as possible, we would be grateful if you can explore it. Yang has gone on a quiet build up of impact units, and Flexibility is needed to help our defense/probing efforts, which have shown useful for both of our three factions.
Regarding your fifth proposition, I will notify the council of this - we are quite stretched in our manpower resources this week, and we may not reply with our proposal for couple of days. We apologize for this. |
It seems Gaians may have problems with Hive and its Impact units. They appear to be in a great need of Flexibility. Should I inform Gaians, that Spartans are willing to release Doc. Flexibility only in exchange for Loyality? We might discuss Ethical Clculus then later on, maybe Spartans will finally release it. Also it appears, that Gaian forfeit for CDF is quite promissing. What a turn of events: neither Gaians or Spartans seem to be very willing to build Command Nexuss.
So maybe:
- ask Gaians if Flexibility as soon as possible is acceptable for their Loyality?
- accept then Spartan offer, so we exchange Flexibility, we switch to Adaptive Economics, and discuss with Spartans Ethical Calculus as soon as possible.
At the present moment, I think we should ask Gaians directly, if they release Loyality and Mobility to us for Flexibility in 2150 in Gaian hands (my estimate - we give it to Gaians in 2149 if everything goes ok) And Ethical Calculus a bit later, as we negotiate it finally or maybe even research it.
Although neither Spartans or Gaians wish to build Command Nexus I think this SP is of really great value as usefullness, so who in your oppinion would be better suited to have it?
Last edited by mart7x5 on 17-11-2004 at 07:35
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mart7x5
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Also, I feel we will soon come to conclusion that we may accept Spartan offer, but I would prefer to have Loyality first. You know - we actually trade what do not posses at this moment... And we do not want to research. It is risky...
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mart7x5
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I had some time to think about it a bit more.
So probably the best way would be:
- take Loyality and Mobility from Gaians now (I hope they give it)
- exchange Loyality with Spartans for Flexibility.
- give Flexibility to Gaians as soon as we get it.
- switch to Adaptive Economics in our research
- continue talks with Spartans for Ethical Calclculus
- when we finally get Ethical calculus forward it to Gaians.
also:
- because Gaians would forward to us 2 techs in advance, and we will probably delay a bit giving them Ethical Calculus, how about some gift to Gaians? maybe some energy, when we have PEG, this will not be a problem.
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mart7x5
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In this case, I would propose the following message to Gaians:
quote:
To Gaian Union,
We thank you for the response to our proposal and questions. Presently we are corresponding with Spartans regarding Doctrine Flexibility and Ethical Calculus. It appears that we will be able to forward Doctrine Flexibility to you much sooner than we expected, although Ethical Calculus may take a bit longer time. In this regard, if Gaian Union forwards yet in this mission year 2148 both Doctrine Mobility and Doctrine Loyality to us preaccepted, we most probably will be able to forward to you Doctrine Flexibility in MY 2149, which you will receive in MY 2150. This is even sooner than expected from our research. Ethical Calculus may take some longer time, but at the present moment we cannot say about expected year. Since you indicated the threat which Human Hive poses to other factions and urgent need of Doctrine Flexibility, I think that it may be beneficial to make this exchange. Furthermore, since Gaian Union is in war with Human Hive, and would forward to us two technologies in advance, which we will greatly appreciate because of your trust towards Data Angels, we consider an additional aid to Gaian Union to help your war effort.
...
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- I hope I do not press them in this letter. Any comments regarding this? I do not want them to have feeling that we want them to enter some disadvantegous trade.
- If we write about some additional help, then we should not withdraw it later. I consider like 50 EC for Gaians. In some rates - we do not have PEG yet. Hopefully we get it. Is this much? or too little?
Last edited by mart7x5 on 17-11-2004 at 13:21
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13-11-2004 12:27
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