02-09-2004 20:35									#301
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quote: Originally posted by Serb I realize that during second Chechen war many civilans died, but I hate to remind you DD, that blah, blah, blah

I'm sorry but this childish response is just sad.

quote: Such boms do not used against cities, simply because it's inefficient, because the same destruction could be achieved with common bombs.

That may or may not be true but it doesn't change the facts of what the Russian army has or has not done.

	02-09-2004 20:38									#302
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Serb, I agree with you on Russia's role in Chechnya. However, give us a small break on Iraq, please. I think we ought to be friends and support each other in the war we both face against Islamic aggression/terror.

	02-09-2004 20:43									#303
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quote: Originally posted by Ned From my understanding, the rebel bases are high in the mountains as the al Qaida bases were in Afghanistan. We used some very big bombs against those bases, but they were not enough. OBL managed to escape. Clearly if the rebels do not have bases, but intermix in Chechen cities, bombs of any variety would not be advisable unless they were of the kind that can hit a targeted fly from 15,000 feet.

Ned,
thier bases in mountains has been covered by Russian bombs over and over again during the second war. Now they (terrorists) become invisible, they hide inside of the cities. They hide among civilians, just like the forces who oposse your army in Iraq hide among civilians.
But some of them learning and healing outside of Russia in countries of Arab world and, it's only my opinion, but I believe that many of them still hides on territory of neighbor Georgia. I don't believe that all terrorist's bases have been removed from there.

	02-09-2004 20:47									#304
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Western news coverage of Chechnya was pretty decent prior to 1996. Afterwards, there has been almost no coverage. Most of the west has no idea what the Chechens have been doing since then. If, western news coverage after 1996 had been as thorough as before 1996, I think western attitudes towards Chechen terrorists would be quite different.

	02-09-2004 20:54									#305
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Serb, bingo. We have some influence now with the Georgians. We can help you.

	02-09-2004 20:54									#306
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Ned,
we could have some different views about certain issues such Chechnya or Iraq, (all of us are hostages of local media after all), but still few things unite us. Both our people believe that terrorism is ****ing evil, unforgiven evil, that terrorists have no excuse and should be punished.
Regardless what some people think, we are in the same boat and doomed to cooperate with each other, once again.

	02-09-2004 20:55									#307
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Serb, bingo. We have some influence now with the Georgians. We can help you.

Not really. I don't see that we have any influence over Georgia.

	02-09-2004 20:56									#308
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pchang, only if Bush remains president, you mean.

	02-09-2004 21:03									#309
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The news about 26 released hosteges have been confirmed and FSB posted a list of names of released hostages. Among them are 12 childrens, the older child among them is three years old (he is the older kid), the younger kid is only 1,6 months old. Most of the children are two years old. The rest of the released hosteges mostly the mothers of those childrens.

	02-09-2004 21:05									#310
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I'm sorry but this childish response is just sad. That may or may not be true but it doesn't change the facts of what the Russian army has or has not done.

blah...blah...blah...
Whatever, I'm log-off.

	02-09-2004 21:06									#311
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quote: Originally posted by Serb The news about 26 released hosteges have been confirmed and FSB posted a list of names of released hostages. Among them are 12 childrens, the older child among them is three years old (he is the older kid), the younger kid is only 1,6 months old. Most of the children are two years old. The rest of the released hosteges mostly the mothers of those childrens.

It's a start in the right direction....

	02-09-2004 21:07									#312
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But before I'm finally log-off.
Here is a picture for you, DD.

Attachment: os.jpg
This has been downloaded 102 time(s).

	02-09-2004 21:36									#313
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I think you are mistaken in thinking everyone is against Russia and in the US it is quite the contrary. I think most of us would like nothing more than to see Russia re-emerge as a powerful state, but a democratic one. Being at the top gets lonely and it would be nice to have another superpower emerge as long as it isn't China or some other communist state. I support Russia 100% in destroying the Islamic scum that is plaguing the world.

	02-09-2004 21:40									#314
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quote: Originally posted by Cookie Monster That's because they don't want to distract from the RNC!! Seriously though, I am very curious as to why this story is not receiving major coverage. I'm beginning to wonder just where does the US government stands on this issue?

You're just listening to the wrong station. NPR is covering it.

	02-09-2004 21:41									#315
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Our news stations are also covering this highly.

	02-09-2004 21:48									#316
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Our news stations are also covering this highly.

Highly and highly... I don't know about the regular brief TV and radio news, can't tell, but the written media and their net editions don't seem to be covering this highly. It's getting more coverage than it would if it had occured in China or India, but I don't think it's an easy task reporting from potentially rapidly changing events inside Russia as the verification of most recent developments still seems to be problematic. That may be part of the reason for the toned-down coverage with some media.

	02-09-2004 21:59									#317
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara You're just listening to the wrong station. NPR is covering it.

NPR and only NPR it seems....

ACK!

	02-09-2004 22:05									#318
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo quote: Originally posted by dojoboy I've made this same trip. The only thing to do now is to ally closely the Asian civilization w/ ours (Western). Asia must know that Islam will not live peacefully with them either. If the Islamist world truely is being bullied by a radical branch, then they should welcome our assistance. If not, then they are complicit in their (radical) deeds. Complete containment (subjugation) of Islam may be the only option. I think when France finally comes to terms w/ this, we can roll unfettered. You are insane. There is no such thing as Western civilization. There is no such thing as Islamic civilization. There is no such thing as Asian civilization. We are all just individuals. This is madness. Of course, here's some meta-commentary on your view and my response.

Gee, I don't think I'm insane. Perhaps patriotism has taken root, but that would be the extent of it. You are correct in regard to us all being individuals; however, like attracts like, hence Western Civilization et al. Cultural links can not be denied. But, I respect your opinion.

	02-09-2004 23:19									#319
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I find it amazing that this has not garnered more attention. It has occupied my mind since I first heard the news. NPR has been on nonstop for the past 2 days, so I can gt some semblace of an update on this. I am thankful for Putin's restraint so far. I am about as close as I get to 'praying' that this end peaceably.

	03-09-2004 00:28									#320
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It's on the front page of USA Today today. Americans seem to cre more about the RNC I think though.

This kind of thing can't be allowed to continue. Anywhere.

	03-09-2004 00:55									#321
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quote: Originally posted by Heresson Also, I have to bash Spain, Philippines and others for their behaviour. This situation is caused but their example.

	03-09-2004 01:06									#322
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quote: Originally posted by Heresson Also, I have to bash Spain, Philippines and others for their behaviour. This situation is caused but their example.

Bull. Such things happened before the attacks against Spain, and before the Philippines' withdrawal from Iraq. Remember the theater in Moscow? The Russians sure didn't compromise. Yet, the terrorists continue to take hostages. It must mean something is wrong with your logic.

	03-09-2004 01:07									#323
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious It's on the front page of USA Today today. Americans seem to cre more about the RNC I think though. This kind of thing can't be allowed to continue. Anywhere.

At the moment it is the top story on CNNs web site after the approaching hurricane Frances. Maybe the gravity of the situation is finally sinking into the thick skulls of US media?

	03-09-2004 01:25									#324
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quote: Gee, I don't think I'm insane. Perhaps patriotism has taken root, but that would be the extent of it. You are correct in regard to us all being individuals; however, like attracts like, hence Western Civilization et al. Cultural links can not be denied. But, I respect your opinion.

Part of Western Civilization is that people are individuals. Islamism lacks this concept.

	03-09-2004 02:38									#325
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One of the 26 hostages released today with his mother.

	03-09-2004 03:51									#326
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quote: Originally posted by Serb The news about 26 released hosteges have been confirmed and FSB posted a list of names of released hostages. Among them are 12 childrens, the older child among them is three years old (he is the older kid), the younger kid is only 1,6 months old. Most of the children are two years old. The rest of the released hosteges mostly the mothers of those childrens.

So this "Islamist" group consider kids 3 and under off limits, but kids 4 and over to be fair game?

	03-09-2004 03:55									#327
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Nah, babies that don't get food and water are probably far more hassle than they bargained for. It wouldn't surprise me if they released all the kids upto age 10 or so next, can't be easy controlling 100+ toddlers that haven't eaten for a few days.

	03-09-2004 04:13									#328
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Winston, sure. It's not 24/7 on TV, but it is on TV all the time anyway. We have our own experts explaining who these hostage takers are, what is their history etc.. I mean, supposed terrorists, because I'm not sure if they have been confirmed 100%, but in case that, they also went over other groups who could be behind this and their history. It all is pretty much the same anyway, bunch of terrorists is what they say to us. But they're experts, and our media usually doesn't hide anything, trying to make someones image any better. So I trust these experts opinions. But, their attitude on not negotiating (terrorists) is putting them pretty down here, so.. there's no sympathies for them in here, the terrorists I mean. As there shouldn't be. Bunch of monsters anyway. If there's a system of heaven and hell, they won't be going to tons of virgins, that is for sure, they're going downstairs.

But of course.. there are little difficulties of getting things through, as no one gets any info unless Russian officials say so, naturally. BUt, it's the number one news in here, and will be watched closely. And of course in the hopes of peaceful solution. Or terrorist defeat, preferred.

	03-09-2004 04:20									#329
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Winston, I mean,. Russia IS our neighbour, and it is involved in a conflict for a long time now. We take natural interest on that. In fact, if anything happens in Russia, it's usually news in here. They're our neighbours. We'd like to think we care what happens in there anyway. And this particular situation, number one news, no question.

But there has been no updates for a while now. Our local television media starts again at 6AM, but between now and then there won't be anything.. what's the situation now? Have they demanded anything?

	03-09-2004 04:24									#330
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove So this "Islamist" group consider kids 3 and under off limits, but kids 4 and over to be fair game?

The Russians have to do something about these people.