02-09-2004 07:25									#211
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bleh.

New subject. Fighting Russia is so "Cold War"....

I think it's part of our nature tho, to NEED someone to hate....with the collapse of the USSR, the islamic fundies were a target of convenience, made even MORE convenient by their long-standing love affair with the US as "The Great Satan."

We're 'bout as likely to fight Russia now as we are to invade Scotland.

-=Vel=-

	02-09-2004 07:28									#212
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Scotland in danger!!!

STOP THE SPAM!!!

	02-09-2004 07:32									#213
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"Scotland in danger!!!

STOP THE SPAM"

I agree. Russia is being invaded by moslem bomb toting maniacs who take children and hold them to windows hoping snipers will shoot them. The children in that school is what this thread is about, and those who would kill them for a politcal end.

	02-09-2004 07:33									#214
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quote: Originally posted by Solver In the news so far, there are about 600 people held hostage, not 200-400 as previously reported. Seven people are dead, several more wounded. A very bad situation developing - children forced to stand at windows to prevent fire there, mines in the sports hall, and around the school territory.

FSB says now about 300 hostaegs.

	02-09-2004 07:42									#215
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Russian news agency RIA Novosti says that one of the terrorists who spoke Russian with heavy Chechen acent called to New Yourk Times and said that school is captured by group "Riad as-Salihiin" (sp?) controlled by Shamil Basaev. In Feb 2003 US State demortment included this group in list of international terrorist organizations. At the same time after initiative of USA, France, Russia, China, UK, Spain, China this organization was included in list of UN comitee of sanctions as international terrorist organization.
This group is responcible for terrorist attacks in Budenovsk in 1995 and Moscow in 2002.

	02-09-2004 07:54									#216
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quote: Originally posted by pchang Chegit's last two posts are quite contradictory. Which one does he really support? Chechen aims and AQ aims coincide in some areas. I am not sure the Chechens want to impose a Taliban like state on the whole world. If they do, then Chechen aims and AQ aims are one and the same.

They had a Taliban like state in 1996-1999 when all Russian forces were withdrawn after first war. In 1999 they started expansion and attacked neighbour Dagestan. So for me, their goal is clear.

	02-09-2004 08:01									#217
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris If there were no Russians, there would be no Chechen terrorists.

So Russians shouldn't have been there in the first place? In 1994 they should have just seat and watch how Dudaev turn part of Russia into religious extremist state, how they slaughter Russian population of Chechnya, how thier rape Russian woman and decorationg their fences with heads of non-Chechen civilians? It's all Russian fault that they tried to stop that madness?
Russians are always ****s and everyone who fight against them are always heroes. It's simple as 2+2.

	02-09-2004 08:05									#218
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber Guess the Russians are gonna have to start stationing troops at hospitals and schools.

We already have police in schools since long time. This school was no exception. Police officers of this school opened fire on attackers, killed one of them, but there were too much of them. Two policemen were wounded and school was captured. Terrorists took the dead body inside the building.

	02-09-2004 08:09									#219
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Ahh yes these two hospital incidents. Russian performance was pretty poor there. Terrorists retreated themselves eventually, and the casualties were high.

Russian performance was pretty poor during entire first war, thanks to brilliant leadership of such ****s as Yeltzin and Chernomyrdin.

	02-09-2004 08:20									#220
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quote: Originally posted by MalevolentLight You know I don't know why Russians are so at odds with americans. You have your own islamic problem just as we do and yet you still oppose us going into iraq? How many children did Saddam kill? How many people did he kill? We violated international law by going in? I think not. We had 14 broken resolutions and a long history of crimes against humanity committed by Saddam to provide plenty of justification to remove him. Russia would be so much better off if they worked with the US rather than fighting us. It makes no sense to me why a country that could obviously benefit from cooperation with the US (especially economically) still opposes us while their children are being killed by the islamic threat.

You've sympathized and supported them not so long ago (and many of you still). You meet their emmisares in White House. Margaret Teacher cheered to their leader and shake his hand infront of cameras.
Now you ask why we don't trust the west much?

	02-09-2004 08:25									#221
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Serb, you have like 18,000 posts in a row or something. Go for a walk.

	02-09-2004 08:25									#222
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During last hour two explosions and sounds of gun fire have been heard near the school building. About 40 minutes ago another sound of explosion have been heard there, says corespondent of utro.ru.

In accordance with last data there are 354 hostages.

	02-09-2004 08:27									#223
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer Serb, you have like 18,000 posts in a row or something. Go for a walk.

As you wish.
And who will reply to Heresson's BS? You perhaps?

	02-09-2004 08:37									#224
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"BS"

If it's BS, why bother replying? Take a nice walk.

	02-09-2004 08:52									#225
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Yestarday, defense minister of Russia, Sergei Ivanov said that war, new kind of war, has been declared to Russia. Concidering the recent events (airliners, explosions in Moscow and hostages in Beslan), I'm pretty much agreed with him. This attack agains Russia is like 9/11 attack against America.

My war is here (I'm a walking red propaganda machine, remember?), so I'll stay if you don't mind.

Last edited by Serb on 02-09-2004 at 09:12

	02-09-2004 09:07									#226
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quote: Originally posted by Serb I'm a walking red propagandad machine, remember?), so I'll stay if you don't mind.

	02-09-2004 09:28									#227
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I have to agree with Serb that this attack is the equivalent of 9/11 against America.

This one can be said to be even more insidious because it specifcally targets CHILDREN.

I though the idea of hurting children was universally despised, something unthinkable. Children should be offlimits, no matter what the cause.

This is a sad day, and this for sure should be the top story in our headlines until resolution has been reached.

WHY IN THE **** IS THE CONVENTION THE TOP ****ING HEADLINE, COMPARED TO THIS IT IS IRRELEVENT.



Good luck Russia.

	02-09-2004 09:30									#228
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quote: Originally posted by OliverFA Bush has phoned Putin to offer all his support. That´s the way to go!

UN, after emergency session, condemned this act as well.

	02-09-2004 09:31									#229
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Thanks Ted.
You've a pretty an such a big flag now.

	02-09-2004 09:38									#230
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar I'm not going to start a flamewar (not to mention that Ming might ban me) so I'll say this: Some of the comments in the various Russia-terrorism threads range from slightly inappropriate to extremly inappropriate

I apologize if anything I said seemed to be in poor taste. Let there be no question that my sympathy is as entirely with the russians in this case as it would be for american children held hostage by these sorts of psychotically deranged *******s from chechnya.

	02-09-2004 09:39									#231
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Thanks Ted. You've a pretty an such a big flag now.

Yeah

I hope that the kids come out of it okay.

This is terrible.

Nobody deserves that.

This picture is heartbreaking.

	02-09-2004 09:41									#232
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quote: Originally posted by Serb But Russian army already withdrawn from Chechnya. IIRC there staitioned less than 25 000 regular Russian troops. It's less than two divisions. For a region with population over one million, it's not a something unusual, if you ask me. I believe in my region (with population over 1,5 million) located in the middle of Siberia staitioned more regular troops than in Chechnya. In Chechnya oder maintains by local police forces made of local population. Ironically most of them fought against Russians in first Chechen war. But the problem is that foreign supporters of terrorist s would never betray their brothers in arms from Chechnya. There is no way in hell that Osama interested in peacefull Caucasus and will withdraw from there. So without extermination of their forign brothers and sponsors we would never defeat them. And I think that Russia should cooperate with foreign countries to fight terrorism more actively. We can't, and no one can win this fight alone.

Amen

	02-09-2004 09:42									#233
	Increase Your PM Length

I think for those of you who want to troll the Russians on this board, now really isn't the time. Take it somewhere else. (Luckily I haven't seen it in any recent posts).

	02-09-2004 09:47									#234
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer "BS" If it's BS, why bother replying? Take a nice walk.

I can't blame Serb for wanting to address all these posts. This topic obviously hits close to home for him.

	02-09-2004 09:49									#235
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Serb, well you ARE walking propaganda machine

But back to the seize.. it looks really bad now.. they are negotiating, and Rooskies offered them safe escape, but they didn't take it. This has been, apparently, done before and it worked, but these folks are not taking this offer. Also, they don't change the kids to adult hostages, which they have also offered. So far they have said No to everything.

So they don't want to escape. It's looking really bad. It means only few things. I think, it's either Putin gives into demands, or something horrible happens. Putin won't give into demands, that's for sure. If he would, I bet there would be 10 schools seized next week.

Our expert on this matter just was interviewed in TV, and she didn't say anything good about it either. Meaning she said these people are Islamic radicals and are totally expecting to die in there anyway.

When you really start thinkign about it, bold attack would sound a bad idea, esepcially with the promises the terrorists have made, to kill kids for every wounded and killed comrade. But then again, they don't even want to escape. Maybe they wait and wait so the terrorists gets tired and sloppy? I don't know. Hopefully it will be peaceful solution, or Russia 100 terrorists 0 battle.

	02-09-2004 09:52									#236
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Sorry I am really lazy Pekka, what are their main demands?

	02-09-2004 09:52									#237
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quote: Originally posted by Geronimo I can't blame Serb for wanting to address all these posts. This topic obviously hits close to home for him.

	02-09-2004 09:54									#238
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I don't know yet. I was listening with one ear open. I'm not sure if they have demanded anything yet, or if they have and what that would be. The expert also said, that it was either these, or the bombing people that have direct connection to the rebel forces. However, these are different group than the ones who did the bomb attack just now.

It seems very high terrorist activity in Russia now. The airliners, bombing, now this.. coincidence? Maybe these groups are working together with their timing to make more impact, I don't know.

	02-09-2004 09:57									#239
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quote: Originally posted by Serb A couple of hours ago my radio said that there is a fire in that school and some firefighters cars were aproaching the building. No additional info about the source or scale of fire. It's also said that terroists threated to blow-up whole building in case of siege and to kill 50 children for any dead terrorist and 20 children for any wounded terrorist. F*ckers.

I see someone got you started on WW II and I missed it. (By the way, the Great Patriotic War was neither great nor patriotic. Surely you can hear the propaganda in the name? )

We're still praying for the safety of the children here. Keep us posted.

	02-09-2004 10:02									#240
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quote: Originally posted by Serb But Russian army already withdrawn from Chechnya. IIRC there staitioned less than 25 000 regular Russian troops. It's less than two divisions. For a region with population over one million, it's not a something unusual, if you ask me. I believe in my region (with population over 1,5 million) located in the middle of Siberia staitioned more regular troops than in Chechnya.

I'm not advocating a russian withdrawal from Chechnya.

quote: In Chechnya oder maintains by local police forces made of local population. Ironically most of them fought against Russians in first Chechen war. But the problem is that foreign supporters of terrorist s would never betray their brothers in arms from Chechnya. There is no way in hell that Osama interested in peacefull Caucasus and will withdraw from there. So without extermination of their forign brothers and sponsors we would never defeat them. And I think that Russia should cooperate with foreign countries to fight terrorism more actively. We can't, and no one can win this fight alone.

What I see as the main problem is that the Russian army isn't doing any of that. All the main terrorist leaders are roaming freely around, and there have been no Russian successes worth mentioning in capturing any of them in a looong time. Instead, the army is just sitting around, or profiting from the local population or working the black market.