01-09-2004 21:25									#121
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Most schools will have windows though, so I doubt gas would work as well as the theatre which did not have windows, but whose air was circulated via air conditioning.

	01-09-2004 21:30									#122
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Poor kids. This is going to end badly.

-Arrian

	01-09-2004 21:34									#123
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

You know I don't know why Russians are so at odds with americans. You have your own islamic problem just as we do and yet you still oppose us going into iraq? How many children did Saddam kill? How many people did he kill? We violated international law by going in? I think not. We had 14 broken resolutions and a long history of crimes against humanity committed by Saddam to provide plenty of justification to remove him. Russia would be so much better off if they worked with the US rather than fighting us. It makes no sense to me why a country that could obviously benefit from cooperation with the US (especially economically) still opposes us while their children are being killed by the islamic threat.

	01-09-2004 21:38									#124
	Remove this text

Saddam was hardly an islamic extremist though whatever Bush/Blair and co say now. The Baathist party was more authoritarian/fascist if anything.

	01-09-2004 21:40									#125
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I never said he was an islamic extremist, but there is plenty of evidence that he worked with them. Saddam is just one piece of the problems with the middle east. Iran and Syria will be next until the Islamic extremist plague has been wiped out.

	01-09-2004 21:54									#126
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Sorry to hear about that, I hope the hostages can be saved.

Just one thing - it seems women play a bigger role amongst Chechen terrorists than in the ME, or am I wrong? Are there any reasonable explanations why this is the case?

	01-09-2004 21:58									#127
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Just one thing - it seems women play a bigger role amongst Chechen terrorists than in the ME, or am I wrong? Are there any reasonable explanations why this is the case?

Well:

a) we have our share of female *******s.
b) One could attribute it, ironically, to the relative liberation of the chchen women.

	01-09-2004 22:17									#128
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'm guessing the use of female homicide bombers will become more and more of a trend. My prediction is that if democracy in Iraq fails and more attacks on the US and other nations occur in increasing number that sooner or later the world is going to lose patience and clean house.

	01-09-2004 22:34									#129
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Oh man.. what a thing to do. It's getting really hard to like them. Messed up.

Well, here's to hoping no one gets hurt.

	01-09-2004 22:54									#130
	Remove this text

This will probably end badly. Perhaps Russia should ask for some heavy U.S. air support. Would our daisy cutters do any good in the Chechen mountains?

Of course, that'd only further radicalize the nutcases. There's simply no winning, it seems. Perhaps it's coming down to the wire — that stupid "war of the civilizations" that some seem to be hellbent on pushing for.

Gatekeeper

	01-09-2004 23:06									#131
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: This will probably end badly. Perhaps Russia should ask for some heavy U.S. air support. Would our daisy cutters do any good in the Chechen mountains?

Not logical. Russian army certainly isn't much weaker than the American army, and Russia isn't going to ask America to bomb its territory anyway. And really, Russian gunship helicopters and bombers aren't as high-tech as American ones, but not worse.

Besides, there are MANY extremists hiding in mountains. That's a hard situation to wipe them out from. Couldn't be done in Afghanistan, can't be in Chechnya.

	01-09-2004 23:09									#132
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Damn it. Those motherfuc*ers are also holding infants hostage, among other children .

The forces failed to come to an agreement regarding supplying food and medicine (needed to some teachers).

	01-09-2004 23:22									#133
	Got spare money?

Saving the children should take priority over storming the school to look tough. If the Russians fancy their chances at a successful assault, then by all means go for it.

If an assault can't be carried out successfully, then don't do it. Negotiate, let it drag out. The children's lives are top priority.

An attack that sacrifices many children in order to look tough; that's just a martyrdom operation. No different from how the terrorists think, if you ask me.

	01-09-2004 23:23									#134
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

re: Russian and military help- the Russians have more than enough raw firepower to turn chechnya literally to glass. US military aide would make little difference.

	01-09-2004 23:33									#135
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I saw on the news that Vladimir Putin had cut short his holiday and returned to Moscow.

The odd thing is that whenever something like this happens, Vladimir Putin cuts short his holiday. He seems to be almost permanently on holiday. Does this man ever work?

	01-09-2004 23:33									#136
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Russian army certainly isn't much weaker than the American army

I guess this isn't the thread for it, and of course the US isn't going to become involved unless in something discrete (like providing the gas to knock these people out or whatever), but you don't actually believe that do you? A professional force versus a conscript force? Discipline. Training. Doctrine. Logistics. Supply. Speed. Etc.

That's not to say the US Army would have done much better in Chechnya, but at least it would have failed in a much different way than the Russian army did.

	01-09-2004 23:40									#137
	Remove this text

quote: I guess this isn't the thread for it, and of course the US isn't going to become involved unless in something discrete (like providing the gas to knock these people out or whatever), but you don't actually believe that do you?

And you believe there is a significant difference? Yes, the American army has better equipment and technology, generally. There also seem to be less stupid problems. However, in terms of raw firepower, there's no real difference, and that's not counting nukes (if you count them, both USA and Russia can obliterate each other or anyone else).

If there was a conventional conflict between Russia and USA with full raw power of both countries, it would result in near-total annihilation of both, though America would win.

And to your edit, Russian biggest problem is of course that they are a conscript army, indeed. But don't underestimate the power of Russian infantrymen with AK-47s. They wouldn't be easy target practice for US Marines with M16s.

	01-09-2004 23:43									#138
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie It's a referrence to the American mentality to believe that invasions prevent terrorism.

You are confused. By American rules, in order for Russia to prevent Chechen terrorism, they'd have to invade Bulgaria. It's as simple as 2+2=4.

	01-09-2004 23:44									#139
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Just as an aside...

Raw firepower rarely tells the whole story.

Pre-Gulf War 1, Saddam had the 4th or 5th largest army in the world....MASSIVE raw firepower (much of it, Soviet-made)....but that did not prevent it from being awfully one-sided.

(Waits for Serb to arrive....)

-=Vel=-

	01-09-2004 23:44									#140
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by St Leo You are confused. By American rules, in order for Russia to prevent Chechen terrorism, they'd have to invade Bulgaria. It's as simple as 2+2=4.

Post of the week!

	01-09-2004 23:45									#141
	Get a bigger avatar today!

"Raw firepower" is a pretty meaningless way to compare the two. F.e., carpet bombing is so... Gulf War. Now it's all about dropping 500 lb. bombs in a 1 meter square box on the map.

	01-09-2004 23:46									#142
	Remove this text

Good one, Leo...but wouldn't that be Lithuania that needed invading?

-=Vel=-
(just checkin' the math)

	01-09-2004 23:49									#143
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by MalevolentLight I'm guessing the use of female homicide bombers will become more and more of a trend.

Is there any kind of bombing that doesn't involve homocide? I'm just curious why anyone would use such a dumbass phrase.

	01-09-2004 23:52									#144
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Sandman Saving the children should take priority over storming the school to look tough.

They can't. If they do, they'll need to post a platoon of soldiers at every school in Russia.

	01-09-2004 23:52									#145
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Che...in his defense, I b'lieve the phrase was supposed to be "female suicide bombers"

Just got the wrong prefix...

-=Vel=-

	01-09-2004 23:59									#146
	Suffering from ads?

For Psyops, I would also relase a herd of Swine around the school.

Set up barbeques, cook lots and lots of pork.

ACK!

	02-09-2004 00:03									#147
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Velociryx Che...in his defense, I b'lieve the phrase was supposed to be "female suicide bombers"

No, I've seen the phrase used several times. The "justification" is that the word suicide puts too much emphasis on the bomber and not enough on the people being killed. The problem, however, is twofold. One, most bombings are design to kill people. Should we start referring to our war pilots as homocide bombers? Second, the fact is that it is the suicide aspect of the bombing that is so horrible, that people are willing to kill themselves in order to kill you.

	02-09-2004 00:03									#148
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Tuberski For Psyops, I would also relase a herd of Swine around the school. Set up barbeques, cook lots and lots of pork. ACK!

Agree to send in food, but add pork to it!

	02-09-2004 00:05									#149
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by MalevolentLight You know I don't know why Russians are so at odds with americans. You have your own islamic problem just as we do and yet you still oppose us going into iraq? How many children did Saddam kill? How many people did he kill? We violated international law by going in? I think not. We had 14 broken resolutions and a long history of crimes against humanity committed by Saddam to provide plenty of justification to remove him. Russia would be so much better off if they worked with the US rather than fighting us. It makes no sense to me why a country that could obviously benefit from cooperation with the US (especially economically) still opposes us while their children are being killed by the islamic threat.

As a general practice, you don't support a policy advanced by bullshitters even if they assure you that they bullshit for a good reason. Whether or not Russia's stance is wise, Russians have never bullshitted about what they think of the Chechnya independence movement.

	02-09-2004 00:06									#150
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Is there any kind of bombing that doesn't involve homocide? I'm just curious why anyone would use such a dumbass phrase.

A vandalism bombing?:P