06-09-2004 00:33									#121
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Please check if save is corrupted - if ti is not - you must play from my presend if it is not - you haven't checked it yet! Look!

	06-09-2004 00:35									#122
	Support Apolyton

Well damn. I thought I was supposed to play from the main turn and avoid a corruption. Now I see you are right. But if I try to play your turn it'll give the played warning, as I've played the original version of the turn.

What to do? I just finished playing the turn and made an Angels save. I'm ready to roll, but you are right r/e the turn info.

I downloaded your turn and will try to play it if I don't get a warning.

	06-09-2004 00:42									#123
	Got spare money?

I played your turn and had the same error +24 credit refund. I did not try to check other things to see if it is on the wrong difficulty level, but I suggest we do not play from that turn. There is something seriously wrong there....Here is my Angel turn if you would please post it to the ACDG thread when you feel comfortable with my logic on this issue. We should talk to Drogue and explain the situation as well. Clearly there is no other recourse.

Attachment: acdg3-angels-2134.zip
This has been downloaded 0 time(s).

	06-09-2004 00:46									#124
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

To consider: We did not gain any advantage that I can see by my playing the turn from the beginning. The only issue is the popping of the pod in our northern reaches, but you can see from my turn reccomendations that I would not have done that anyways. I played as I'd prescribed last turn with the exception of moving our baby worms to the pier for loading. I had said that a rover was less good than a worm and I followed through on that logic as well. So there is not an inconsistency in our play, nor an advantage.

So, when you are ready, you can upload the turn I posted here to the turn tracking thread. I won't do it myself b/c you may want to try and contact Drogue for advice beforehand. I'll be checking in hourly.

-Smack

	06-09-2004 00:52									#125
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I contacted Drogue, but there are differences in turn play. It is up to Drogue to decide what to do next. It is true that we gained noa dvantage with your turn play, although I diasagree on not loading the Unity Rover. Oh, and when I open your turn I get reload warning ?

	06-09-2004 00:56									#126
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The turn I posted here is after the end-turn. The turn I posted to our turn thread is a presend save. Here's the presend save again:

Edit: You will get turn-played messages because you have played that turn on your machine. Rename it and try again. I get no such message when playing from the pre-send save myself...

Attachment: acdg3-gaia-2134presend.zip
This has been downloaded 0 time(s).

Last edited by smacksim on 06-09-2004 at 01:02

	06-09-2004 01:01									#127
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Well, Drogue should just mention what happened to all the other teams....something like:

"The Gaians experienced a bug during turn-play which affected the apparent game difficulty level. Thankfully they caught this bug and replayed the turn on a different machine, which reported no errors. The Gaians did not gain any advantage by having partially played the turn twice. Please check the SE table settings for your team to determine if you are getting any errors in switching and prices. Thanks, Drogue."

	06-09-2004 03:06									#128
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Ok I've had a look at the details, and IMHO using smacksim's turn is the easiest way. If there was a massive advantage, I'd have to ask for a replay, but there isn't, and the bug does seem strange. I think smacksim's advice is good too, try to reinstall it and see if it does it still. Hopefully it should right itself. For the moment though, use the smacksim save.

And IIRC, 24 ec is on Librarian, it's 32 at Thinker.

	06-09-2004 03:24									#129
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Turn Posted.

	06-09-2004 03:33									#130
	Plan of Action for 2135 Got spare money?

After some odd turn bugs, we got the turn off with minutes to spare in the 48 hour limit, thanks to Drogue's timely intervention and dissemination of our turn issues. That aside, here's a look at a plan of action for 2135:

Continue with Probe Builds, retreat on Angel land, former work building roads, and the ferrying of units to the north.

There are lots of pods to pop up north. Let's be cautious while we have non-natives in the area that could get squashed by a big worm explosion.

Ferry: We are prepared to ship a mindworm to the north, while our probe team would be a good second unit. That will be in several turns b/c the fungus is largely in our way with the foil.

We also have our original spore launcher prepared to explore towards the SE land bridge. There is a single pod on our east coast that could be popped on the return trip.

Formers: We need to make some decisions about what to terraform. Clearly we need to pave the way to new base sites, but it may yet be worthwhile to do more interior-block work with forest planting and pre-roading for later terraforming.

SE table: We are running 50/0/50 Planned, which gives us IA in 4 turns. There was the possibility to adjust this to 30/0/70 for IA in 3 turns, but I think we will still make it in 3 turns as our population is due to grow and some forests are coming online, as well as solar. Thus, I kept the sliders at 50/0/50 which gives a significant EC return. Useful for rushing our probe teams and gimps.

Here is an up-close view of our main block of bases:

Attachment: main2.jpg
This has been downloaded 18 time(s).

	06-09-2004 03:35									#131
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Angel Territory: We must decide what to say and do r/e the Angels and our units there. There is some discussion of popping that fungal tower and pod before retreating/requesting teleport home. The angels have requested that we leave and touch no more of 'their' pods.

Attachment: angels2.jpg
This has been downloaded 18 time(s).

	06-09-2004 03:36									#132
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Northern Units: We must decide how to explore, and with what units. Also we must decide what units to ferry, and to where, with our Unity Foil:

Attachment: northerns.jpg
This has been downloaded 18 time(s).

	06-09-2004 03:38									#133
	Increase Your PM Length

Our Production: We are making lots of ECs which are being used to rush our probe teams, in hopes of grabbing an early secret project. We are building quite a probe army. This plan works best if we stick with it. Anyone care to calculate how many more turns until we can disband-rush the Human Genome Project with our current units and rush-rate?

Attachment: production2.jpg
This has been downloaded 18 time(s).

	06-09-2004 03:38									#134
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Since it's inside the time limit, I'll probably avoid mentioning it to other teams, unless requested. if they ask, I'll just say it's a technical problem.

	06-09-2004 03:45									#135
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yes, considering the turn played fine for me, it's highly unlikely that the bug was in the savegame, and is some problem with Illuminatus' install.....we hope!

	06-09-2004 14:21									#136
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Hey!

We could use the guarantee that we do not pop any pods as one of the things to exchange for IA!

	07-09-2004 13:50									#137
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I don't see a list of orders. We should stop listing possible actions, and we should start each turn planning with a list of suggested orders which are taken as definite if no one objects to them.
I propose listing every movement and terraforming order and hurry order in thread. Other members will then look at them and comment them if they disagree, otherwise confirm them. If it is agreed to change one of orders, post in the thread that has list of orders shall be altered to reflect this. This course of action should end all problems in turnplaying. What do other Lords think?

-Lord Administrator Illuminatus

	07-09-2004 14:05									#138
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I am not a lord, but I think it'd be good!

	07-09-2004 21:27									#139
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

It'll become difficult to anticipate all the possibilities for the turn. For example, if one of the actions of the turn is to pop a pod, or move through fungus, we can receive unexpected ECs, leading to unexpected opportunities to hurry production.

As far as terraforming, I've heard barely a peep on what to do with our formers. We're roading into the Uranium Flats, but what to do with the other formers? Make extra roads? Plant forest? Construct solar panels?

I'm in favor of making general rules on when to rush, rather than specific orders for each turn. For example, with >= 30 ECs, rush probe gimps with at least 10 mins completed, all the way to completion.

	07-09-2004 21:31									#140
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

All things that can be planned should be noted that way. Ofcourse there is no way we can anticipate all possibilities for the turn - but it is never the intention - intention is to anticipate all possibilites that can be anticipated like unit movement. Problem is - no one cares about formers so the turn player has to do sth on the spot. Or when nobody cares about what to do with unit, but jsut generelizes movements so the field is open to dispute. When sth unexpected happens, it is discussed in the forum.

	07-09-2004 23:30									#141
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'm no fan of solar, but perhaps we should make sure each base has a 2-1-2 tile worked. Then, we should make sure each base has a forest to work. Finally, I suggest we focus on 3 roads: 1 into the Ur Flats, 1 north for probes, CPs, and military, and 1 into the Ruins, especially the north side with the river, where a new base site can be prepared and forest laid.

	08-09-2004 13:48									#142
	Remove this text

My suggestions:

1.Idea about base having 1 farm+solar & 1 forest title is very good!
There are just some things to be aware of:
1.Don't plant 2 forests for 1 base - they'll expand themselves
2.Plant forests were roads already are - good for transportation and defense
3.Don't make a barrier of farms try not to put farms like that:
XXX
XFX
XFX
XXX
It can block forest expansion, better to do like:
XXXX
XXFX
XFXX
XXXX
so forests can pass through farms.
4.Try to build forests in as rainy and as flat areas as possible - I've sighted it helps them to expand

2.Idea about 3 main roads (to N, to UF & to Ruins) also is very good, but we shouldn't make too much effort in them to not forget other terraforming and we should make priorities with building them:
1.priority should be the road to UF - it'd help our economy & expansion
2.priority should be the road to Ruins - see above, but it has a con - fungus (we'll spend quite much time in removing it)
3.(and the least) priority should be the road to N, in fact, we shouldn't really hurry with it as the abundant fungus to N could protect us from attack and be a road itself (if we build XenoDome) in case superior force comes from the N (a.k.a. Hive)

	09-09-2004 00:32									#143
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Try to build forests in as rainy and as flat areas as possible - I've sighted it helps them to expand

Personally I think its just a waste of rainy terrain...of course I don't mind planting forests on arid/moist but flat terrain since increasing a flat (0 minerals) to +2 minerals is good.

quote: Don't plant 2 forests for 1 base - they'll expand themselves

Ideally, no...but this should have exceptions in mind...if we happen to have a large base in the future, that might demand forests (two or even four squares), but it hasn't expanded just yet...(ie. just one or two tiles), then plant one more, for example.

Anybody thought of exploring Angel territory a bit more, and seeing their landmarks they made? It could provide us with crucial clues on their plans.

	09-09-2004 02:11									#144
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It would be nice to explore Angel territory more thoroughly, but their cities more-or-less vertically span their continent, so we would not slip through unnoticed.

On the other hand, we can look at the contour of the unexplored terrain and make some guesses, as we did about our own continent. In fact, some speculation about their terrain may still exist in an old thread.

	09-09-2004 03:35									#145
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Let's offer the Angels a Spore Launcher for IA :.

It would be nice if we made an offer and it was accepted immediately. There is a high liklihood that without making an offer right now that we will spend the next several turns discussing it without reaping the benefits. IA now would solve our mineral wastage issue with the disbanding probes. That could be quite useful. Wealth is the big deal. That will help immeasurably.

Anyone have opinions on how to pop the northern pods? Also, I've suggested ferrying the probe team next, after the baby worm. Any opinions?

We have 2 formers near GL that are ready to road. I suggest we do that, which buys us 2 more turns to think up what to do next. Also, 2 formers will be ready to act at the top of the Uranium Flats. Should they forest that river tile, or continue roading into the flats?

	09-09-2004 05:23									#146
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I say we pop the northern pods with a swarm of mind worms, able to protect non-native units in the area.

We do not need to road more deeply into the Uranium Flats, but planting forests there will be very helpful.

Ouro is now our ambassador to the Angels, and so will send by PM our consensus on what to trade for IA. We should probably formulate an offer. I've already expressed my opinion on what to trade in another thread.

	09-09-2004 06:57									#147
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How about we road and then forest that square 1 to the east of our formers by the Uranium Flats. It's a Uranium tile and it's in range. Also, it's further from the base, with more possible trajectories of forest expansion....

This will also make later travels into the flats 1 move shorter, bypassing a crook in the river.

	09-09-2004 13:16									#148
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Yeah, UF only needs that road/river square to sucessfully load our cargo into river ferry..

So we can continue with the Ruin-forming..

SL for IA is good!
If only they accept it..
If don't - maybe trade the rover for it..

	10-09-2004 20:24									#149
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Turn's in! I'll play it in a couple of hours, trying to form a consensus out of the discussion so far. What I plan to do so far:

Retreat units on Angel continent, but towards the fungal tower.

Some combination of roading and foresting in the Uranium Flats

Something with other formers, if they need orders

Move northern units north, preparing to pop a pod up there.

Load the available unit (a mind worm) onto the Unity Foil, but no one else wants to go through fungus with the foil, so not really sure what to do there.

Assess available minerals for the HGP and potentially rush some more Probe Gimps.

	10-09-2004 20:29									#150
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I suggest moving Foil to 44,60 (two squares west) after loading - we can start exploring there.