12-09-2004 10:23									#121
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor It sure is embarassing that only Muslim girls do wear obvious religious displays on a systematic basis.

As I said it's to put up the pretense that the law isn't anti-Muslim.

	12-09-2004 10:45									#122
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quote: Oh, don't resist saying racism. By all means go ahead.

I'd do it for him . It's quite obvious a cultural superiority thing. Swedes don't like it when Turks take their jobs. Same with Germans. They look down on the Turk. It may not be racism, per se, but it is definetly ethnicism.

	12-09-2004 10:48									#123
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And they all hate the Eastern Euros. Low corporate taxes and all.

	12-09-2004 14:20									#124
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turkey does not belong in the eu.

it's in asia, for chrissakes. wth does it think it's doing in the eu?

	12-09-2004 14:26									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I'd do it for him . It's quite obvious a cultural superiority thing. Swedes don't like it when Turks take their jobs. Same with Germans. They look down on the Turk. It may not be racism, per se, but it is definetly ethnicism.

"They"? Let's hope this is not Anti-Germanism....

And since I'm living in the city which looks like the second capital of Turkey I can assure you that the reactions of Germans towards Turks are as diverse as the reactions of Americans towards muslims in general

	12-09-2004 14:29									#126
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Let the Turks in already.

	12-09-2004 15:39									#127
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quote: it's in asia, for chrissakes. wth does it think it's doing in the eu?

So what? Hawaii isn't exactly in america, either.

	12-09-2004 15:46									#128
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I think it was Derrida who said the next step in French legislation would be to require everyone to wear a beret and carry a baguette under one arm.

	12-09-2004 22:21									#129
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Europe and Asia are one big continent, the division is purely a cultural construct.

	12-09-2004 22:45									#130
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yes, and two different human subraces

WE MUST PROTECT THE PURITY OF OUR PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS !!

	12-09-2004 23:00									#131
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel quote: it's in asia, for chrissakes. wth does it think it's doing in the eu? So what? Hawaii isn't exactly in america, either.

But it had British and American colonists there

	12-09-2004 23:02									#132
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if you're going to let turkey in, then change the name of the european union to the eurasian union, and allow membership for say, china, india, pakistan, israel, iraq, jordan, syria, kyrgyzstan...

	12-09-2004 23:03									#133
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Turkey is as much a European nation as Russia.

	12-09-2004 23:03									#134
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker But it had British and American colonists there

He meant Alaska.

	12-09-2004 23:03									#135
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Or we call it simply Teh Union!

	12-09-2004 23:06									#136
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the majority of russia's population is in europe. therefore, russia is european.

the majority of turkey's population is in asia. therefore, turkey is asian.

	12-09-2004 23:34									#137
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed if you're going to let turkey in, then change the name of the european union to the eurasian union, and allow membership for say, china, india, pakistan, israel, iraq, jordan, syria, kyrgyzstan...

I am sorry but that's dumbest logic ever.

"Hey, because the United states of america is called "of america", they should let every nation in america join, and if they don't they're racist!"

	12-09-2004 23:42									#138
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umm, it has nothing to do with race, az. it's pure geography.

if you're going to invite countries not in europe into the european union, it ceases to become a european union. therefore, either keep turkey out of the european union, or change the name of the european union to something else.

	12-09-2004 23:54									#139
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quote: if you're going to invite countries not in europe into the european union, it ceases to become a european union.

But what is a "european union"? Is Iceland really in europe ( I imagine iceland joining the EU at SOME point). Is Hawaii really in America? No. It's just a name showing the birth of that political entity.

	12-09-2004 23:57									#140
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Well, Poland some time ago issued a document in which is shows its vision of EU expansion, and according to it, even central Asian countries should be able to join.
The leader of Polish radical national party, mr Giertych, doesn't want Turkey in - but wants Israel (it was quite a suprise....)

	13-09-2004 00:01									#141
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There's plenty of time before Turks understand that EU are just pulling her leg . It will go like this:

- eventually full negotiations will begin
- turkey will fulfill all the criteria
- 1st. failed referendum in EU countries
- 2nd. failed referendum in EU countries
- 3rd. failed referendum in EU countries

(time passes)

- 4th referendum passes in all EU countries except Greece

- Greece vetoes Turkey's membership and promisess to do so for all eternity, except in case Turks accept to convert to Orthodox Christianity

At this point (and this is some 50 years in the future), Turks go: wait, WTF!? WTF!???????, build a couple of nuclear devices and have another go at Vienna...

	13-09-2004 00:03									#142
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quote: The leader of Polish radical national party, mr Giertych, doesn't want Turkey in - but wants Israel

It's a trap.

	13-09-2004 00:10									#143
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel quote: The leader of Polish radical national party, mr Giertych, doesn't want Turkey in - but wants Israel It's a trap.

No, it seems He dislikes Arabs more than Jews.
Actually, He himself never said anything antisemitic.
He tries to be "modern nationalist"

	13-09-2004 03:02									#144
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Turkey is as much a European nation as Russia.

And Russia is not even close to become a candidate for EU.

	13-09-2004 03:04									#145
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I don't think it's important if Turkey is ready for the EU, because I think the EU is not ready for Turkey

	13-09-2004 04:48									#146
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Agreed though I don't think Turkey is ready for the EU either.

	13-09-2004 09:48									#147
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed umm, it has nothing to do with race, az. it's pure geography. if you're going to invite countries not in europe into the european union, it ceases to become a european union. therefore, either keep turkey out of the european union, or change the name of the european union to something else.

Q, in terms of what's the difference between Turkey on the one hand and Morocco, China, Japan, Pakistan and whonot on the other; as I said previously here Turkey is part and parcel of European diplomatic and political history for centuries, oftentimes at the centre of it. Turkey is a part of virtually all European institutions, and on top of that its qualification for membership is set around 40 years ago. As such, it never created a question mark as it would with, say, Morocco. On these accounts, a puritanically geographical approach is irrelevant and thus Turkey's membership would not require a renaming of the whole union.

	13-09-2004 09:51									#148
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quote: Originally posted by Ancyrean Q, in terms of what's the difference between Turkey on the one hand and Morocco, China, Japan, Pakistan and whonot on the other; as I said previously here Turkey is part and parcel of European diplomatic and political history for centuries, oftentimes at the centre of it. Turkey is a part of virtually all European institutions, and on top of that its qualification for membership is set around 40 years ago. As such, it never created a question mark as it would with, say, Morocco. On these accounts, a puritanically geographical approach is irrelevant and thus Turkey's membership would not require a renaming of the whole union.

Europeans could gain way more from the benefits of letting Turkey in than Turks will benefit from being in the European Union.

The Turks can do alot of real effective diplomacy, not only to the Arab and Muslim world, but also, at least in the economic world, with Russia and other former Soviet nations.

These kinds of special, credible relationships are currently not available to Eurocoms. Having Turkey on your side is a huge bridge to many non Western places. Iran is one example.

Plus access to Turkish women what the hell is wrong with you guys already???

	13-09-2004 10:04									#149
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quote: if you're going to invite countries not in europe into the european union, it ceases to become a european union. therefore, either keep turkey out of the european union, or change the name of the european union to something else.

Turkey has historically been intertwined with Europe, especially in terms of diplomatic circles. They've formed part of many alliances with European powers in wars dealing with European territory. I'd also argue that the greatest population centers in Turkey are culturally European. Istanbul, for example, can hardly be considered an Asian city in its culture. And most of coastal Turkish cities were considered part of the Greek culture in ancient times.

	13-09-2004 10:20									#150
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion There's plenty of time before Turks understand that EU are just pulling her leg . It will go like this: - eventually full negotiations will begin - turkey will fulfill all the criteria - 1st. failed referendum in EU countries - 2nd. failed referendum in EU countries - 3rd. failed referendum in EU countries (time passes) - 4th referendum passes in all EU countries except Greece - Greece vetoes Turkey's membership and promisess to do so for all eternity, except in case Turks accept to convert to Orthodox Christianity At this point (and this is some 50 years in the future), Turks go: wait, WTF!? WTF!???????, build a couple of nuclear devices and have another go at Vienna...

In fact, Greece is one of the staunchest supporters of Turkish membership these days. That support actually is the hallmark of the thaw of tensions between the two countries and decades old questions like sea and air borders in the Aegean are being quietly negotiated for a successful agreement

On a side note, Turkey will sign the European Constitution along with Bulgaria and Romania (not sure about Croatia).

On referenda, I'd think nobody will put Turkey's membership to public vote as it was not done for any other member's entry, unless of course Europe decides to make a showcase of double standards

quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa I don't think it's important if Turkey is ready for the EU, because I think the EU is not ready for Turkey

quote: Originally posted by kronic Agreed though I don't think Turkey is ready for the EU either.

I think right now the EU is more not ready for Turkey than Turkey is for the EU. In early october the EU Commission will issue a report on Turkish readiness to start negotiations, and Turkey's readiness is expected to be certified in that report. The commissioner guy in charge of overseeing the report was in Turkey last week and he was so strongly and undiplomatically saying that Turkey crossed the critical threshold and there's no question anymore about not starting the negotiations but rather the issue is on the tone of the report. The commission will also issue an unprecedented 'impact report' about Turkey's membership.