21-11-2004 23:02									#181
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quote: This is exactly what I am saying, as far as I am concerned the SAP2 seems to reach a better balance (for my own taste of course).

So maybe we use SAP2 next time.

	21-11-2004 23:48									#182
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quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora So maybe we use SAP2 next time.

	22-11-2004 02:47									#183
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I don't think this game has been all military. We are only at war with two of our neighbors at the moment. The rest of the countrys we generally have a good relation with. Granted the Pheonician are powerful, but I really don't think we are even close to losing yet, and I don't think we will ever be (as long as Maq stops destroying our own cities). I know that in SAP2 war is non-existant unless you make it, I mean all you have to do make a no-trespass agreement and they will never beable to step inside your borders.

After we pacify the Pheonicians i think we will be able to build for a while. i actually like the fact that the Koreans are running away with the wonders, makes it more interesting that way, espacially when they are assimilated into another nation (maybe we should assimilate them into our nation first) and we will have a really problem on our hands. I think the Americans are going to be the most trouble though, as they own the entire bottom part of the continent and have a great defensive advantage. that might work against them trying to attack their neighbors with troops but I doubt it. Anyways we are going to win it just might take a while.

	22-11-2004 02:54									#184
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Soon enough the Egyptians should fall to us, and I think once we assimilate those guys into our ranks we'll be able to fend off the Phoenicians a lot easier.

Lets not pick any more fights elsewhere though folks...

	22-11-2004 03:03									#185
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Just realized I've been playing this entire game with debugslic=ON!!! Amazing no slic errors at all.

	22-11-2004 05:35									#186
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quote: (as long as Maq stops destroying our own cities)

Crazy am I? We'll see whether im crazy or not

I agree with Shadow, we shouldnt make anymore wars for a long time. Once we've beat these 2 we should focus on getting all our cities sorted for happiness buildings and relatively high production.

	22-11-2004 05:44									#187
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quote: Originally posted by EPW I don't think this game has been all military. We are only at war with two of our neighbors at the moment.

... since the beginning of the game.

quote: I know that in SAP2 war is non-existant unless you make it, I mean all you have to do make a no-trespass agreement and they will never beable to step inside your borders.

I don't agree with you, IMO you have not played a SAP2 game for a long time. One of the only painful aspects of CtP2 is that, whether it is the original game or a mod, the AI is never respecting the non-trespass agreements.

quote: Anyways we are going to win it just might take a while.

I think so myself!

	22-11-2004 05:58									#188
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I experienced in the 6th SP Tournament exactly what EPW described. The civs I had control of were totally stopped by the instant kick of the no-trespass, but the civs that I was at war with was constant war from start till I killed them, like any mod.

So in the next succession game Tamerlin can show us all how to play SAP2.

	22-11-2004 06:03									#189
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin ... since the beginning of the game.

So would you rather them sit there and wait to be killed? There agression is there only weapon, and we have only been at war with three civs. One we defeated, one we are defeating, and another is tough. Personnally I don't want to be playing the first 200 turns building shrines and granaries (yes I know thats what we do in mp)

quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin I don't agree with you, IMO you have not played a SAP2 game for a long time. One of the only painful aspects of CtP2 is that, whether it is the original game or a mod, the AI is never respecting the non-trespass agreements.

The AI is easy to manipulate in SAP2. If you get the fast no-trepass agreement(which usually just requires a gift of 100 gold) you can easily avoid war for 100s of turns. You can then build 4 stacks of fast moving units and take the civ in five turns.


The way the autoboot works hurts the Ai's ability to carry out any attacks. Granted the ai will occasionally surprise you with a 12 stack, or won't agree to a no-trespass agreement, but in general they are not much harder than the default game to beat.


EDIT: This doesn't mean I don't want to play SAP2 in the next Succession game, I think its a great mod in many other areas, just not militarily, which I guess is why you like it

	22-11-2004 06:13									#190
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quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora I experienced in the 6th SP Tournament exactly what EPW described. The civs I had control of were totally stopped by the instant kick of the no-trespass, but the civs that I was at war with was constant war from start till I killed them, like any mod.

I don't have experienced this kind of situations in my own games (as far as no-trespass is concerned). There is some war in SAP2, but there are longer period of peace when you can build a civ.

quote: So in the next succession game Tamerlin can show us all how to play SAP2.

I don't have this claim and never will, we all have a different way of playing and mine is certainly nor the best one nor an optimized for winning way of playing.

	22-11-2004 06:16									#191
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora So maybe we use SAP2 next time.

well i hope it will be a while before that happens a victory will take a while and getting owned will not

	22-11-2004 06:19									#192
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quote: Originally posted by EPW So would you rather them sit there and wait to be killed? There agression is there only weapon, and we have only been at war with three civs. One we defeated, one we are defeating, and another is tough. Personnally I don't want to be playing the firts 200 turns building shrines and granaries (yes I know thats what we do in mp)

Even in the SAP2 one of my first objectives is to find the closest civ and build as soon as possible the army that will allow me to take its cities and grow quickly on its back.

quote: The AI is easy to manipulate in SAP2. If you get the fast no-trepass agreement(which usually just requires a gift of 100 gold) you can easily avoid war for 100s of turns. You can then build 4 stacks of fast moving units and take the civ in five turns.

With 4 units stacks ??? Never tried that myself.

quote: The way the autoboot works hurts the Ai's ability to carry out any attacks. Granted the ai will occasionally surprise you with a 12 stack, or won't agree to a no-trespass agreement, but in general they are not much harder than the default game to beat.

Aren't you exaggerating a bit?

But I agree that when the AI civs are too aggressive in the mods they are sometimes lacking some aggressivity in the SAP2.

quote: EDIT: This doesn't mean I don't want to play SAP2 in the next Succession game, I think its a great mod in many other areas, just not militarily, which I guess is why you like it

True!

	22-11-2004 06:24									#193
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Even in the SAP2 one of my first objectives is to find the closest civ and build as soon as possible the army that will allow me to take its cities and grow quickly on its back.

good good.

quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin With 4 units stacks ??? Never tried that myself.

Sorry I mean four stacks of 12-units.

quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Aren't you exagerating a bit?

Yeah, usually they never take a city.

	22-11-2004 06:28									#194
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quote: Originally posted by EPW Sorry I mean four stacks of 12-units.

Oooops, misread your sentence, I should go to bed...

quote: Yeah, usually they never take a city.

And when they take a city, they have some trouble to keep it mainly because of the FrenzyAI... which should not be used with the SAP2.

	24-11-2004 14:55									#195
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quote: this post originally said well tomorrow i get my first look around after what i hear to be a very eventful chain of turns... so how about we talk about wha sup w/ the future agenda?

sorry the poor quality of the pictures after i resized it, but i didnt know how else to shrink it
notice that i openned a trade route w/ the 4 caravans we had sitting around
it trades bears if u cant see... at the pointer... see it?

anyway, those Egyptian cities are as good as ours (unless something comes up)

	28-11-2004 11:58									#196
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minor update after not-too-long first opportunity at play... i had really hoped to have been finished by now, but i'll still post this as i wanted to get a screen in too

1275ad hello, voted in by modern democracy

1280 take Hadrumetum (S Phonecea)

1285 discovery of economics does us no good, koreans been had (london) stock exchange
recover city of Kora w/ all three cav at red zone surviving after killing the three (light i think) arties in there
10stack Egytians sneak into swazi vincinity

1290 we lose Hadrumetum and recapture it at the beginning of this turn

1295 capture slightly important Phonecean city of Baalbek my general-led 12stack lost 4, the defense was a line of some musketeers(didnt count since they died fast
however, some 8 scattered Phoneceans have surrounded Calgary, so naturally, the city has been vacated; dispite this manuver being used here, i stopped mobile defense almost everywhere else (except Swazi
i dont know if this in important, but the diplomat has spotted a korean raider (ironclad grafix) in Nigerian territorial waters

well, swazi appears safe as the eqyptians have dissappeared, but Phoneaceans have suddenly popped up all along the lenhth of our borders so i expect they are after more than Calgary, but i hope they turn around for Baalbek first, as i will just kinda sit tight there as suicide charges into other cities tell of hard times attacking

i'd like to thank i dont know how many of you before me for setting up camp in Egypt as we are now just owning them... and i plan to have two Egyptian cities soon

a stack of six battle weary plus an infantryman has made headway to Elephantine, but if they try to stop there, the garrison will have no problem from them, and if they go farther, the garrison can catch up

the screen is for those who dont want to/cant go and look up where Baalbek is

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	28-11-2004 12:07									#197
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uh... dp... but i wanted to ask how the Egyptians got a carrack in that lake anyway
...i need to go to sleep

	28-11-2004 12:18									#198
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i cant believe i cant add an attachment to an old post... i really need to some rest

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	30-11-2004 07:24									#199
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finished today

1305 someone discovered rails so we'll be expecting a lot more wars now...
lose and recapture Elephantine (my bad)

1310 successfully take Giza w/o a single dead, thanks to bombarding

1315 come under heavy fire from a few directions, but the greatest tragedy was in Regina, where the reenforcing cavs hid behind the cannons and let the main Regina garrisson get slaughtered by oncoming Phoneceans whilest they lived w/o getting their hands dirty... that sux

1320 i finished turn 314 (unless Shadow wants to attack Cairo now)
the point is that MANY new things are going to finish being built this turn
and please let the aqueducts finish, our people are starving in many places

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	30-11-2004 07:56									#200
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good one, looks like the positives far outway the negatives

	30-11-2004 18:37									#201
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quote: 1310 successfully take Giza w/o a single dead, thanks to bombarding

Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.

	30-11-2004 19:04									#202
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In other words, this is the beginning of the start.

	30-11-2004 20:26									#203
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No.

	01-12-2004 02:55									#204
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Hang on... you see... what has once begun, has not will have been begun, yet at its end, it still will have been, had been, and will yet to be begun.

Clear?

	01-12-2004 05:26									#205
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To clarify the matter:

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	01-12-2004 05:47									#206
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HAHAHA

Anyway, my turn will be done in a day or two.

	01-12-2004 07:08									#207
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good one Maq

lol, let it be ultra clear: the beginning of the start was when we first went to war, it ended when canada surrendered, and now we are close to finishing the middle of the beginning, lol

oh yeah i forgot to mention i renamed Baalbek NewHuangDi , or NHD for short

	01-12-2004 07:20									#208
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EPW's got it, although I would make the beginning a significant part of the whole bar..... nevermind.

Anyway ask Mr. Churchill.

	01-12-2004 07:27									#209
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quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora Anyway ask Mr. Churchill.

Too complicated for me...

	04-12-2004 04:06									#210
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1325ad Ceasefire brokered with Phoenicians. General advancing of troops.

1330ad Continue to decimate forces inside Cairo.

1340ad Cairo is ours! We send the Egyptian King a postcard of Cairo, wishing he was here…

1345ad We only require mopping up the remaining Egyptian unit to have victory over them. Many troops shunted into Egyptian territory. Scottish troops starting to push into our territory. 100 Gold offered to keep them at bay. Diplomat also dispatched to one of their cities to hold a reception, as I’m don’t really feel like having to belt them just yet. Ceasefire with Phoenicians still holding.

1350ad The Phoenicians break the ceasefire (not quite sure how though…). More Scottish troops massing inside our southern borders.

1355ad Phoenician attack on Swazi repelled. The Scotts attack!

1360ad Various Egyptian units destroyed.

1365ad The Scotts capture Winnipeg! Many enemy troops within our borders, although we have considerable forces approaching Egyptian cities also. Koreans also massing troops within our borders. Peace Treaty no longer exists with them, although we’re not at war. Request to remove troops declined.


Tamerlin, my recommendation is to start beefing up all our cities in general, and perhaps begin pillaging the roads to our enemies. Also keep the pressure on the Egyptians – move the bombarding units up to pound them, then send in the rest of the troops.

There have been a number of aqueducts built and a few mills, so at the moment I’ve changed most production to military units due to the fresh attacks. There’s a few new roads/highways built in our borders for easy troop movement also.

May the Force be with you…

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