18-03-2005 12:36									#331
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I am now convinced that the Morgans will also receive IntInt next turn. However, assuming they don't pact this turn (which they very well might) the Angels won't be able to tell that we destroyed their ½SP, so they will also send IntInt to us, convinced that the Morgans will be able to build it first.

With the ½SP gone, it looks unlikely that the Morgans will be able to build the CDF, so we will steal it, leaving the Triple Wimp Alliance foiled and frustrated.

	18-03-2005 20:55									#332
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We destroyed the supercrawler? Yay!

	19-03-2005 03:17									#333
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quote: Originally posted by Snoddasmannen I still think we need to post and ask them to answer our questions before we answer theirs. It seems to me like they're dodging us.

I agree.

Btw, I was thinking that we could ask the Angels to chair a peace conference between the Corporation and us. It would provide some cool roleplay, and for the Angels reinforce the picture that it's the Corporation that is continuing this war, while we are peace doves. This would make it less likely for them to choose the "weasel" side.

	19-03-2005 07:40									#334
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Hmm, A peace conference. My Spartan genes are saying "no!", but my Finnish genes are saying "yes!". Just look at the 1975 final conference of the CSCE held in Helsinki

	20-03-2005 23:36									#335
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Or else, despite our aversion to anything smelling to multilateralism or suprafactionalism, we could even call a planetary council session, demanding the Corporation ceases their agression against us.


Btw, in reaction to my nudge in the rec commons GeoModder and I had a little PM exchange. It's in Dutch, so not much point in posting it, but summarized he's saying:

• They had simply forgotten about our questions in the embassy, but here are some (unofficial) answers and queries:
  
• The Angels are interested in buying the cruiser hull. Would we be willing to sell it, and for how much?
  
• Geo says they can get the Uni commlink cheaper from another faction.
  
• There were no negotiations at all with the Corporation regarding IntInt or the CDF. In fact there are at the moment no negotiations at all with the Morganites.

	21-03-2005 05:38									#336
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Hmm - cruiser probe teams, eh?

Notwithstanding their early game roleplaying about the free flow of information, would they honour a twenty year embargo on onward trading of Doc Init?

If they would (well, maybe we could be beaten down to 2180, ie 15 years) then I don't see a downside to selling or trading it

(Might they be willing to waive our agreement not to build the Ascetic Virtues? - it'd save us building hab complexes or rec commons for the forseeable future, and we already have a surplus 1/2 SP crawler over in Arcadia)

What is it worth to them anyway? Is it worth their decklaring vendetta on Morgan for 10 years (to deprive them of their treaty income) in which case we might gift it to the Angels in recognition of their lost commerce income

Maybe something unusual like that might work

BTW, I love the idea of a Peace Conference - great role playing opportunities, allowing all 4 factions to spout propaganda, and also (from Sparta's perspective) very Hitlerian

	22-03-2005 04:13									#337
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If I start working on planning and setting up the peace conference, would you please work out the thingamajigery with the Angels?

We also need an article of The Phalanx out for the Gaian War, no? We shall be declaring that one next turn I believe.

	22-03-2005 22:17									#338
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For getting DocIni, how about adding a D:AP no-trade clause as well? Then this proposal to try and prevent the Axis of Weasels to acquire Doctrine: Air Power could perhaps work.

What does everyone think about that proposal btw? We need to know by the time we get our turn. Same with the moves of some military units: for many I don't know what their purpose is, and in what bigger general plan they fit (if we have one?).

	22-03-2005 22:41									#339
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If we can delay the time Morgan gets noodles, then we can also afford delaying the invasion - for obvious reasons. I think we should be able to stop he Angels from trading, but that is in the hands of Kassiopeia (and ask them for answers - they are awfully silent). What are the chances of the probe action (framing Morgan) succeeding?

The bigger plan is to attack Morgan. Spare units not holding off Yang should walk or be transported to a staging point, from which they will start. Units of the same kind can be leapfrogged. I think a transport or two are planned at the moment.

	23-03-2005 01:28									#340
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quote: the Axis of Weasels

The Phalanx is SO adopting that one.

I don't know why, but again I'm feeling somehow weird in that I can't wrap my mind around all the stuff we are engaged in and planning at the moment.

1. Steal something from Yang and frame Morgan for it.
- This sounds like a good idea to usher Yang to DOW Morgan, but like Modo, I wonder what the probabilities of this one are. Are we already war with Yang? (I'm a bit sheepish that I even have to ask that but I can't remember)

Any delay of invasion is a small problem if we can keep DAP out of enemy hands, of course. But this will involve some brokering with the Angels too - we may want to try to secure the no-trade clause from them before we commit to the framing action, because it may it a wasted effort if they get DAP from the Angels anyhow.

2. Proposal to the Angels:

- No trading of DAP to the weasels
- Sell them DocInit, but no trading it to the weasels either
- Sell them a cruiser hull (wtf?)
- Try to get them to let us build Ascetic Virtues

quote: What is it worth to them anyway? Is it worth their decklaring vendetta on Morgan for 10 years (to deprive them of their treaty income) in which case we might gift it to the Angels in recognition of their lost commerce income

Hmm, I don't follow. How does declaring vendetta on Morgan relate to allowing us build Ascetic Virtues? Or do you mean we would ask them to declare war on the weasels in exchange for us giving DocInit to them?

	23-03-2005 01:46									#341
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Yes, we are at war with Yang. More like clobbering Hive suicide squads, ever since they attacked us, but that is just semantics.

Yes, I think Googlie's idea was to ask the Angels to declare war on Morgan in exchange for Doc:Init, or Doc:Air flat. With a no-trade-to-anyone clause, of course. Not cheap, but then again, might work wonders on our anti-Morgan crusade.

The benefit of a war with Morgan would be the confirmation of the Angels' good (from the Spartan point of view ) intentions. It might even be possible to ask them for a no-build of Ascetic Virtues, if we so desire it.

	23-03-2005 08:26									#342
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 It might even be possible to ask them for a no-build of Ascetic Virtues, if we so desire it.

No ... no

We have already committed to the Angels that we will not build the Ascetic Virtues (the Angels wanted that one)

My idea was to give them the Doc Init tech in exchange for them letting us off the hook on that one, so that we could build the AV

Its +1 POLICE would be wonderful if we do train some nonlethal methods policemen, and its +2 pop would let us grow to size 9 in every base before we even worried about hab complexes

	23-03-2005 08:26									#343
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d/p

Last edited by Googlie on 23-03-2005 at 08:35

	23-03-2005 08:34									#344
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac For getting DocIni, how about adding a D:AP no-trade clause as well? Then this proposal to try and prevent the Axis of Weasels to acquire Doctrine: Air Power could perhaps work.

I like it

quote: What does everyone think about that proposal btw? We need to know by the time we get our turn.

I like the proposal too. It's a huge geopolitical shift that would almost portend a 2 bloc world war (if we could only get on good terms with Yang - worth changing to POLICE to get???) and should lend itself to some fast-moving diplomacy in the genral forums, especially if we can flkoat the odea of a "Peace Conference" chaired by the Angels at the same time as we are pummelling the Morganites and Gaians

quote: Same with the moves of some military units: for many I don't know what their purpose is, and in what bigger general plan they fit (if we have one?).

I saw us as assembling three task forces - one to invade Morgan, one to deal with the Hive, and a third created fortuitously thru podpopping that can now threaten the Gaians.

Morgan's rapid acquisition of the techs we had that they didn't has accelerated their drive to D:AP, and put a crimp in our slowly germinating plans to the extent that we now need to think of rushing into a Morgan invasion. We have the cutter and mercury-class trannie now at GH, and have a decvent enough airforce that we can harrass Morgan- unfortunately they are at different coasts of Morgania

	23-03-2005 19:07									#345
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The Angels will be queasy about declaring war on Morgan because of the Gaian pact, so we should insist to them that we don't want them to declare vendetta on the Gaians, and that we are only doing it as a gesture of some kind to protest over their pact with them.

And yes, the probing is sounding good enough, especially since we don't have that much to lose since Yang is already at war with us.

	23-03-2005 22:19									#346
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie I like the proposal too. It's a huge geopolitical shift that would almost portend a 2 bloc world war

So if we propose a council resolution for "the Corporation to stop their agression towards Sparta, and pay reparations for suffered casualties", the motion shouldn't come just from us, but from our entire bloc: the "Arcadian Alliance" consisting of the Spartan Federation, the University Coastal Protectorate and the Peacekeeper Democracy.

quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia The Angels will be queasy about declaring war on Morgan because of the Gaian pact, so we should insist to them that we don't want them to declare vendetta on the Gaians, and that we are only doing it as a gesture of some kind to protest over their pact with them.

Perhaps I misinterpret you when you say "because of the Gaian pact", but in case I don't: the Gaians aren't pacted to the Angels if that's what you mean.

	24-03-2005 01:17									#347
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No. I meant that since the Gaians are pacted with the Morganites, the Angels might think they'd end up with a war with the Gaians too if we ask them to declare one on Morgan.

	24-03-2005 01:22									#348
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You know, it rocks to have Lal in the Arcadian Alliance. That means we can use Lal's UN influence to have the AA officially declare and establish the Planetary Council - and a bit like the League of Nations, we'd found it as an organisation devoted to peace in general, the Morganite-Spartan war's resolution being its main goal.

I'm thinking, I'll make a thread about it in the general forum, where I'll write some sort of short story introduction thingus into it, after which I'll open up the dialogue by addressing the Council as Lt. Colonel Kassiopeia.

Then we could proceed to setting up the peace conference, the chair position of which I'd suggest for the Angels to take.

I'm just thinking, how will we spin the Gaian war into this? Maybe simply state that they've been aiding the Morganites covertly so in self defence we must declare a state of hostility between us and them too. Maybe craft up a story about the Spartan Navy boarding a Gaian freighter delivering weapons to Morgania?

	24-03-2005 01:29									#349
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quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia I'm just thinking, how will we spin the Gaian war into this? Maybe simply state that they've been aiding the Morganites covertly so in self defence we must declare a state of hostility between us and them too. Maybe craft up a story about the Spartan Navy boarding a Gaian freighter delivering weapons to Morgania?

They have openly made a Pact with our enemy. How "covertly" is that?

You need not make anything up, really. Our aggressive reaction is well within Spartan roleplay.

	24-03-2005 01:44									#350
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It's always nice to have a something little to justify stuff by. Manufacturing stuff like that is a long-standing tradition.

	24-03-2005 08:03									#351
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Maybe they are denying us "Rights of Passage" in neutral territory by refusing to move their blocking transport and seaformer (of course, if we had asked them to move our case would be that much stronger ..... )

	24-03-2005 15:38									#352
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quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia I'm just thinking, how will we spin the Gaian war into this? Maybe simply state that they've been aiding the Morganites covertly so in self defence we must declare a state of hostility between us and them too. Maybe craft up a story about the Spartan Navy boarding a Gaian freighter delivering weapons to Morgania?

Post a Phalanx including the "Debbie murdered" article as "a previously internally released newsflash" with then in a follow-up article us discovering it were the evil Gaians who killed poor Debbie. What more do you need?

	25-03-2005 02:45									#353
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Ah, but what about the goldfish article! We've been itching to post it!

	25-03-2005 03:07									#354
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quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia Ah, but what about the goldfish article! We've been itching to post it!

Yes!!! Definately!!! FINALLY!!!

	25-03-2005 03:31									#355
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But Debbie is the goldfish

	25-03-2005 04:58									#356
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Oh, right. Maniac talked about Debbie, not Deirdre.

	25-03-2005 10:29									#357
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Btw, in reaction to my nudge in the rec commons GeoModder and I had a little PM exchange. It's in Dutch, so not much point in posting it, but summarized he's saying: .............

here is what was posted in the embassy (essentially the same as was exchanged with Maniac):

quote: Posted by GeoModder in the Embassy Dear members of the Junta, Except for a fatal and instant case of amnesia of all Angel turn participators this year you will find Intellectual Integrity in the diplomatic cache. No other factions are (yet) able to compete for the Citizens' Defense Force inherited with this technology, by we would like to ask you to construct this Secret Project fast as so we can safely trade this technology with other factions if we desire so, or even to keep our allies as close allies instead of mere friends. I regret to inform you we found a cheaper way of acquiring the comlink of Zakharov. It was a chance we couldn't miss for our energy resources still are somewhat limited. Since our technology exchange finally is concluded the question of 'what now?' presses itself. The Data Angels have sofar always had good exchanges with the Spartans, and it is our hope this will continue for quite some years. As a first query, I would like to ask the Junta if they would consider selling a cruiser hull to our Commerce Ops Centre. Regards, IT GeoModder

So Maniac's question still stands (fortified by the delay of a couple of days in acknowledging/replying):

quote: What reply do we want to send?

	25-03-2005 14:57									#358
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Let's ask what they are offering for cruiser hull - now it is their turn to tell about their position and techs. We know nothing about Angels.

	25-03-2005 16:04									#359
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Good idea Sentry
We should point out to them that we intend no malice towards them since they opted not to pact with the Morgans, and that they can rest assured that our fleets will protect their waters from hostile ships and pose no threat to them.

This will sound like so much hot air until they find out we attack the Gaians

	26-03-2005 00:21									#360
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I believe the Angels have (a) unit(s) (a probe?) on University territory, violating the Modo Doctrine!!!

Information sources that lead to this conclusion:

1> The Angels saying this:

quote: I regret to inform you we found a cheaper way of acquiring the comlink of Zakharov. It was a chance we couldn't miss for our energy resources still are somewhat limited.

Walking a unit next to a University base is of course the cheapest way of meeting.

2> Our Crypteia in Mendelev College has been activated, while last turn it was set to "sentry". This means an unpacted unit has moved next to it.

3> We now see the Angel borders on the map, while last year we didn't. You start seeing the borders of a faction if units physically meet. Buying a faction's commlink is not enough.

So I guess we should ask them to withdraw their unit(s) asap allong with the other stuff we have to ask.