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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:21
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In the meantime, Arginine has responded :
quote:
PM from Arginine to Googlie
Re: ACDG-3 Possible Morgan-Sparta Blockbuster deal
Very well, bear in mind I am limited in what I can say, especially after that 'note' I had posted then retracted.
I was hoping there would be a quiet period action for a few turns, after which another round of deal-making could occur. Namely, we are going for the PEG now. As a result Morgan Industries can offer nothing in tech and little in money for the near future.
There has been discussion about teaming up with the Spartans to go for Bio-engineering (the clean reactor)
A short term plan would have the Spartans research Neural Grafting, pass it on to Morgan Industries, at which point we would research bioengineering.
Compensation could be worked out in one of two ways:
1) We pay ~250 EC (provided the tech is researched immediately and no other faction on Planet has it of yet. In effect we'd be outsourcing some research.)
2) We give bioengineering later on in exchange for neural grafting.
Yes we care about the other techs, but Bioengineering comes first, and it's where the money's at.
I would prefer that NEITHER party would be able to trade the techs.
We are picky about the restrictions being placed on the trade of the tech to the AIs. Can't we throw in some cash to make some those trading requests on some techs go away? I resent Sparta being the only faction permitted to trade the jointly researched techs.
Note that the AIs can be probed and/or traded with. |
To which I've replied:
quote:
Sent by PM from Googlie to Argenine
RE: ACDG-3 Possible Morgan-Sparta Blockbuster deal (3)
Well - I posted much the same in the Embassy as I had sent to you privately - at least it'll spur talks.
We'll be in a position to commence researching Neural Grafting in 2 years, but would rather try to get Doc Loyalty - and the Command Nexus before Yang builds it in 9 years - and Intellelctual Integrity (for the CDF)
Yang is beginning to frighten us. He is currently researching Gatling werapons, then it'll be Chaos weapons, and if he has the CN, he'll be churning out Hardened troops that are just a mindworm and a monolith away from being Commando. Until bioenhancement centers, we're the only realistic faction that has a chance to stand up to him, if we have the CN (We can't afford to build Command Centers in every base)
The Gaians are 1 turn away from Social Psych, and the Angels 3 away from Doc Flex. We've tried to suggest a modest leapfrog with the G's whereby if we give them Soc Psych this turn they'll change to Doc Loyalty and send it our way next turn, but they want an additional tech as well!!!
For it to work with the Angels, we'd need to give them Doc Flex (so that they could change) as well as Social Psych and Doc Mobility (so that Doc Loyalty would come up as a choice). Big price to pay.
So it leaves really just 2 options. Steal from Yang and risk vendetta, or research it ourselves. But the latter ties up our meager research efforts for the next 22 years (for Doc Loyalty and Intellectual Integrity)
Wouldn't it make more sense for us to use that 22 years to research Neural Grafting and then Bio-Engineering in exchange for your researching Doc Loyalty and Int Int (which you need for the Ascetic Virtues anyway), with the techs being passed to each other when requested?
Anyway - just thoughts. Should I post some of these in the Embassy as well? |
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:21
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I suggest a response to Mead along the following lines:
Our short-term research goal is Intellectual Integrity, as we wish to build the CDF (we share a fairly long border with Yang, and in the inevitable conflict we'd rather not fight him with one hand tied behind our backs)
But we need to get Doc Loyalty in order to proceed, so that will be our immediate goal (we could probe it from Yang, but that will prolly trigger the vendetta that we're not quite ready to face yet, so would rather acquire it by other means, with self-research as a last resort). We will likely switch next year to Doc Loyalty when our current research effort matures
As to longer term co-operation in leapfrogging - we see Doc Air as a distinct possibility. We will have Gene Splicing and HEC, prereqs for SFF, and if we both researched that, as soon as one had it the other could switch to Doc Air.
If you are interested in boosting minerals in the short term, there is a trade we would consider that might appeal to you (which redresses one of our weaknesses while giving you an essential "builder's " tech.
We can send you Ecological Engineering in exchange for 2 crawlers and 100 ec's. (The mechanics work - we'll sail a transport to Vander Eudaimonocs and turn over control to you - you load it with 2 crawlers and sail it to our closest port and turn over control to us, and viola, it's done .... might need to offload the crawlers first, and turn over control individually - I'll sceanrio test that if you have any interest in the idea)
Note that I haven't said what we are currently researching (but hinting at HEC - we'll need to get that from Lal)
Comments?
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Maniac
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Gent, Belgium
Jul 1999
time: 06:21
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The message sounds great! 
Some comments:
How about adding after this:
But we need to get Doc Loyalty in order to proceed, so that will be our immediate goal (we could probe it from Yang, but that will prolly trigger the vendetta that we're not quite ready to face yet, so would rather acquire it by other means, with self-research as a last resort). We will likely switch next year to Doc Loyalty when our current research effort matures
something like this:
We were therefore wondering if you would be interested in a combined project to research Intellectual Integrity. We think this tech is not only useful for us, but also for you, as it is together with AdapEcon, which you will soon have, a prerequisite for Planetary Economics and the Ascetic Virtues, which you indicated you consider an important secret project for you.
Regarding Ecological Engineering, 100c and 2 crawlers would be a very good price. Though I'm wondering, would you plan to use those crawlers to harvest resources, or to be soon used to hurry a secret project?
If it would be to harvest resources, way to go!
If it would be to hurry a secret project, I'm wondering whether a pure sum of credits wouldn't be more advantagous for us. After all, the Morganites will probably think in terms of "a 3-row crawler = 60 credits". Or even as equal to 75 credits, if they follow our line of thought while discussing the cost of probe actions that one mineral equals 2.5 credits when building units.
With that in mind, we could get more minerals ourselves by upgrading self-built crawlers with Morganite credits. Upgrading a 0-1-1 crawler to a 0-2t-1 costs 90 credits for a gain of 5 mineral rows. That's less than 2 energy per mineral.
Another drawback is that we'd lose control over SNC Pegasus for a long time. While the crawlers could be dropped off on the coasts near SC34, the Pegasus would have to move way back to Gythium Harbour to be able to turn over unit control again. That would give the Morganites free exploration and show them a base they could try to infiltrate (on the other side they could be less inclined to try and infiltrate our crater bases then  ).
Last edited by Maniac on 18-11-2004 at 19:03
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:21
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Yaeh - that loss of Pegasus' use (particularly if, in the meatime, we got the MCC's extra 2 mp's for it) would be penal. And in a PM, Arginine did say they'd be willing to pay +/- 250 ec's for the right tech
One of ther ideas with the crawlers was to stall for time - we still have to relieve Zak of that etch when he gets it in 2152. With straight cash, there'd be an element of "sure, we'll send the ec's next turn" We'd then have to 'fess up that we dpn't have it yet, tipping our hand, and if Morgan has built any probefoils then he'll head for where he thinks the AI is to steal it from them.
(And without harping on about the timing of the Uni invasion, do we know if Zak will keep his current research - Env Econ in 2152 - if under attack, or would the AI switch to a conquer tech . IIRC one of their "bonuses" is that they don't lose lab points when switching mid tech, only human players do.)
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:21
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Maybe more precise - yet vague - at the same time (incorporating Maniac's excellent suggestion
quote:
draft of Proposed Embassy message
Our short-term research goal is Intellectual Integrity, as we wish to build the CDF (we share a fairly long border with Yang, and in the inevitable conflict we'd rather not fight him with one hand tied behind our backs)
But we need to get Doc Loyalty in order to proceed, so that will be our immediate goal (we could probe it from Yang, but that will prolly trigger the vendetta that we're not quite ready to face yet, so would rather acquire it by other means, with self-research as a last resort). We will likely switch next year to Doc Loyalty when our current research effort matures
We were therefore wondering if you would be interested in a combined project to research Intellectual Integrity. We think this tech is not only useful for us, but also for you, as it is together with AdapEcon, which you will soon have, a prerequisite for Planetary Economics and the Ascetic Virtues, which you indicated you consider an important secret project for you.
As to longer term co-operation in leapfrogging - we see Doc Air as a distinct possibility. We both have Gene Splicing and in a few turns we expect to acquire HEC, prereqs for SFF, and if we both researched that, as soon as one had it the other could switch to Doc Air.
There are other possibilities - for example, sharing in the cost of acquiring Env Econ in a few years, and other such deals
But there's some food for thought there , and we await your reply with interest |
Thoughts before I post it?
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Snoddasmannen
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quote:
Originally posted by Maniac
As Morgan has met Zakharov, selling Lal's frequency for anything more than 25c is already profitable for us I guess.
Though on the other side why would Morgan ask to buy Lal's commlink from us if he could just buy it from Zak? Would it be possible Zak no longer wants to talk to Morgan? |
Maybe. I don't think they're treatied, or the Morgans would probably get a +1 trading bonus from UB (the screenshot indicates no such bonus). Can't we just check the Unis infiltration data to see their relations with the Morgans?
That said, they'll probably run into the PK:s soon enough, so we should try to sell them their commlink for a decent sized sum. 60 ec:s over 10 years?
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:21
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They might balk at 60 ec's, knowing that the AI usually sells them for 25. Maybe 40?
Last edited by Googlie on 23-11-2004 at 19:37
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09-11-2004 19:31
I will do my best to prepare for and attend the summit, though.
). Besides HEC, anything that Morgan could buy from Lal he could also buy from Zak.
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